Huddersfield Giants

[Damien]

Interview with Ken Davy. Obviously he may be saying what he thinks people want to hear but he does sound like he's genuine in his intentions on moving back to Huddersfield. It'll be interesting to see what site in Huddersfield they are nearly at the pre-planning stage with:

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ken-davy-huddersfield-giants-shay-30754333

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Interview with Ken Davy. Obviously he may be saying what he thinks people want to hear but he does sound like he's genuine in his intentions on moving back to Huddersfield. It'll be interesting to see what site in Huddersfield they are nearly at the pre-planning stage with:

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ken-davy-huddersfield-giants-shay-30754333

I can't see any reason that crowds wouldn't go down if they moved out of their home town. Is this really worth it to just to give an average 3,000 fans in a 10,000 capacity stadium a better atmosphere than 5,000 in a 24,000 capacity one?

Davy has done a lot for Huddersfield but to me this really seems ill considered. The link between home town and stadium should only be broken in the most desperate of circumstances. 

[Padge]

41 minutes ago, M j M said:

I can't see any reason that crowds wouldn't go down if they moved out of their home town. Is this really worth it to just to give an average 3,000 fans in a 10,000 capacity stadium a better atmosphere than 5,000 in a 24,000 capacity one?

Davy has done a lot for Huddersfield but to me this really seems ill considered. The link between home town and stadium should only be broken in the most desperate of circumstances. 

Do you not think it could be a bit of arm twisting of local politicians, businesses to look at expediting any proposals local proposals. 

[M j M]

28 minutes ago, Padge said:

Do you not think it could be a bit of arm twisting of local politicians, businesses to look at expediting any proposals local proposals. 

Maybe. But if so it'd be pretty crappy to mess the Halifax clubs around just as a pawn in his dealings with Kirklees council.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

Maybe. But if so it'd be pretty crappy to mess the Halifax clubs around just as a pawn in his dealings with Kirklees council.

As a general rule, very rich people do not get very rich by playing fair and not treading on a few people along the way.

He may look like a nice guy in RL terms, backing an unfashionable and at personal cost, but, end of the day he didn't get rich by backing Huddersfield when he had nowt.

[Harry Stottle]

19 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

I can readily imagine another merger that might happen "somewhere down the line" Harry. Would you support that one?

For some reason you have interpreted my post in that I support a Giants/Fax merger? I would say though that if the Giants do make the move to The Shay the longer they stay there the more likely it would become.

As for your other 'merger' if you are implying two quite close neighbours in Gt. Manchester in the same Metropolitan Borough, not a snowball in hells chance of that happening, if it is those two I would say to you exactly with the same words that you accused Worzel with a few posts back "You clearly have zero local knowledge or understanding"

[Worzel]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

Interview with Ken Davy. Obviously he may be saying what he thinks people want to hear but he does sound like he's genuine in his intentions on moving back to Huddersfield. It'll be interesting to see what site in Huddersfield they are nearly at the pre-planning stage with:

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ken-davy-huddersfield-giants-shay-30754333

Yes that’s true. I guess time will tell.

I genuinely don’t see the point in leaving the town for 5+ years in order to then come back. Why would you not stay where you are? The improvement in atmosphere will be marginal, and then on the other side of the equation you have all the downsides of moving to Halifax from a fan and cost perspective. It really makes no sense at all to me.

So I guess if Ken is genuine in what he says then I’ll have to revise my assessment from “he has a sensible but cunning plan he doesn’t want to be fully transparent about” to “he has an absolutely mad plan that isn’t logical, and more money than sense”

I guess either are possible!

I really do hope Hudds can build a boutique ground in Hudds though, that would be cool 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Yes that’s true. I guess time will tell.

I genuinely don’t see the point in leaving the town for 5+ years in order to then come back. Why would you not stay where you are? The improvement in atmosphere will be marginal, and then on the other side of the equation you have all the downsides of moving to Halifax from a fan and cost perspective. It really makes no sense at all to me.

This is the weird thing and it's what I said in my first post. They've stuck it out for so long at their current home with all the issues he's cited, what's another 5 years on top of that.

The only thing that could have perhaps changed is the opportunity at Halifax has now become too good not to consider. Maybe he can get the ground really cheap and it just makes business sense and will be worth at least the same, if not more, at the end of it all anyway. 

[daz39]

21 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Yes that’s true. I guess time will tell.

I genuinely don’t see the point in leaving the town for 5+ years in order to then come back. Why would you not stay where you are? The improvement in atmosphere will be marginal, and then on the other side of the equation you have all the downsides of moving to Halifax from a fan and cost perspective. It really makes no sense at all to me.

So I guess if Ken is genuine in what he says then I’ll have to revise my assessment from “he has a sensible but cunning plan he doesn’t want to be fully transparent about” to “he has an absolutely mad plan that isn’t logical, and more money than sense”

I guess either are possible!

I really do hope Hudds can build a boutique ground in Hudds though, that would be cool 

Our club and most certainly our fans do not like the stadium, it's one of the main reason a lot of fans have stopped going, we have no space or branding there, it's depressing but most of all the longer we are there the more IMG points we will lose.

It gives a bad image of the club, hell just look at the comments on here with 4,500 in it, put them in the Shay and it looks miles better already.

It's not just about atmosphere it's about making sure we keep our SL status, where we currently are we have no chance of improving our scores, at the Shay we have till we can get back 'home'.

There will be no cost to fans, free travel will be provided, for those who use buses/trains, the bus to 'fax takes 25 minutes from Huddersfield bus station and the train is 11 minutes.

We have no idea how many will go, a lot of us who remember the 3 game sin 2011 seem to have enjoyed the Shay, some are already looking forward to a change of scenery away from the horrid place we currently use so it's all a big what if at the moment.

As a Giants fan you either trust Ken or you don't, i guess we will see who does in the future.

[daz39]

32 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is the weird thing and it's what I said in my first post. They've stuck it out for so long at their current home with all the issues he's cited, what's another 5 years on top of that.

The only thing that could have perhaps changed is the opportunity at Halifax has now become too good not to consider. Maybe he can get the ground really cheap and it just makes business sense and will be worth at least the same, if not more, at the end of it all anyway. 

Calderdale council are desperate to get rid of the Stadium, a rich, successfull businessman buying it off them and keeping it as it was meant is surely too good an opportunity to waste, likewsie with Ken, he obviously sees a deal to benefit him/Giants in the longer term.

[M j M]

6 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Our club and most certainly our fans do not like the stadium, it's one of the main reason a lot of fans have stopped going, we have no space or branding there, it's depressing but most of all the longer we are there the more IMG points we will lose.

It gives a bad image of the club, hell just look at the comments on here with 4,500 in it, put them in the Shay and it looks miles better already.

It's not just about atmosphere it's about making sure we keep our SL status, where we currently are we have no chance of improving our scores, at the Shay we have till we can get back 'home'.

There will be no cost to fans, free travel will be provided, for those who use buses/trains, the bus to 'fax takes 25 minutes from Huddersfield bus station and the train is 11 minutes.

We have no idea how many will go, a lot of us who remember the 3 game sin 2011 seem to have enjoyed the Shay, some are already looking forward to a change of scenery away from the horrid place we currently use so it's all a big what if at the moment.

 

Just because Davy has done a lot for the club doesn't mean he's the all-knowing Messiah. The assumption that you'd get the same crowds in Halifax as you do now is just not proven by any club that has moved out of their home town. Let's look at St Helens in Widnes in 2011, similar distance apart as Halifax and Huddersfield. They did all the things Davy/you are suggesting, but knew they would only be there for one year. Crowds still went down by a third. That would definitely have been compounded if it had dragged on into a second and third year.

You will be reduced to the absolute hardcore, and whilst you might think that's where you're already at there's no doubt people who might still come out to big games who would not do so if you relocated to a different town.

Meanwhile the profile of the club in Huddersfield would fall from whatever it is now to almost non-existent. Out of sight, out of mind for a decade and what are you left with?

[daz39]

2 minutes ago, M j M said:

Just because Davy has done a lot for the club doesn't mean he's the all-knowing Messiah. The assumption that you'd get the same crowds in Halifax as you do now is just not proven by any club that has moved out of their home town. Let's look at St Helens in Widnes in 2011, similar distance apart as Halifax and Huddersfield. They did all the things Davy/you are suggesting, but knew they would only be there for one year. Crowds still went down by a third. That would definitely have been compounded if it had dragged on into a second and third year.

You will be reduced to the absolute hardcore, and whilst you might think that's where you're already at there's no doubt people who might still come out to big games who would not do so if you relocated to a different town.

Meanwhile the profile of the club in Huddersfield would fall from whatever it is now to almost non-existent. Out of sight, out of mind for a decade and what are you left with?

The profile in Huddersfield is already pretty non-existant, as i've said no-one knows who will go and who won't, it's a gamble but one the club feel they need to take.

[Blind side johnny]

19 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

I dont know anything about those grounds but is seems like Ken isnt bothered what he gets. A building plot in order to build a 7000 stadium is what he wants. So if one or more have the foot print to do that ,then they would fit the bill.

They don't.

What doesn't seem to be known to some posters is that KD bought Laund Hill (YMCA as was) some years ago, improved the facilities then passed it to an independent sporting trust. Folk seem to think this is all about making money, but it isn't.

[M j M]

26 minutes ago, daz39 said:

The profile in Huddersfield is already pretty non-existant, as i've said no-one knows who will go and who won't, it's a gamble but one the club feel they need to take.

We're going round in circles but I have seen absolutely nothing to say it's a gamble which needs taking, reinforced by the interview with Davy.

Huddersfield have been at the stadium for over three decades, staying there won't present any unknown challenges. Going to the Shay might be ok or it might kill the club for good. Why would you do that?

[Blind side johnny]

20 hours ago, Worzel said:

I've no idea whether a merger will happen, yes that's pure speculative hypothesising. It's perfectly possible Hudds and Halifax will coexist long-term in the same stadium. I just think the logic may then eventually become ever more compelling.

I have a high degree of confidence in my assessment of the permanance of this move however. We have enough information to be able to develop that conclusion. There's no business case for moving from a facility you've used for 30 years (when you're not being forced out) to another town, and investing heavily in a facility there you won't be using in the medium term, and also building your own stadium back in your home town. It does not, and would not, make any sense. 

Please tell me the business case for investing in any British RL club?

As I have said, KD isn't in this to make money for himself but to put HRLFC onto a stable footing for the future when he is no longer around. You will know, I presume, that he has already established a significant trust fund to support the club when he is gone.

[Blind side johnny]

19 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

What about the Huddersfield Sheffield merger, that was lucrative and beneficial as far as Huddersfield were concerned

Are you genuinely saying that was successful?

[Blind side johnny]

19 hours ago, Eddie said:

The only one in sport that I can think of which has been successful is Inverness Caledonian Thistle, and there are still older people there who refuse to watch them. 

Well, I did say RL, and you clearly don't know the current situation at ICT - pretty well a basket case.

[Agbrigg]

5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Are you genuinely saying that was successful?

I am saying what I posted

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, M j M said:

I can't see any reason that crowds wouldn't go down if they moved out of their home town. Is this really worth it to just to give an average 3,000 fans in a 10,000 capacity stadium a better atmosphere than 5,000 in a 24,000 capacity one?

Davy has done a lot for Huddersfield but to me this really seems ill considered. The link between home town and stadium should only be broken in the most desperate of circumstances. 

A bit of a linear extrapolation there. I watched them play at Fartown in front of regular 600 crowds. Build a decent team in a smaller ground and numbers will be in the 5000+ bracket.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

This is the weird thing and it's what I said in my first post. They've stuck it out for so long at their current home with all the issues he's cited, what's another 5 years on top of that.

The only thing that could have perhaps changed is the opportunity at Halifax has now become too good not to consider. Maybe he can get the ground really cheap and it just makes business sense and will be worth at least the same, if not more, at the end of it all anyway. 

And we don't know what carrots Kevin Nagle might be dangling to get full ownership of the John Smith's.

In addition, as I have said previously, I understand that the current current running costs of the JS are massive and there is a lot of expensive maintenance required within the next few years. Kirklees couldn't wait to unload their liabilities, which must give an indication of the issues. Why Nagle wants to buy it, I don't know.

Edited January 11 by Blind side johnny

[Blind side johnny]

25 minutes ago, M j M said:

We're going round in circles but I have seen absolutely nothing to say it's a gamble which needs taking, reinforced by the interview with Davy.

Huddersfield have been at the stadium for over three decades, staying there won't present any unknown challenges. Going to the Shay might be ok or it might kill the club for good. Why would you do that?

He is the owner. He has poured millions into HRLFC already, which he has no expectation of getting back. He is a wise businessman, may I speculate wiser than either you or I. He is making the judgement about the best way to spend his money on bringing about a stable future for the club, which he sees as requiring a different ground. Without KD there is no club, simple as that.

[M j M]

2 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

He is the owner. He has poured millions into HRLFC already, which he has no expectation of getting back. He is a wise businessman, may I speculate wiser than either you or I. He is making the judgement about the best way to spend his money on bringing about a stable future for the club, which he sees as requiring a different ground. Without KD there is no club, simple as that.

I'm not questioning that without Davy there wouldn't be a club or that they need a smaller ground.  And I've repeatedly acknowledged the club's growth in fans since moving to the stadium. That's part of the point.

But Davy definitely hasn't shown himself immune from poor decision making and Huddersfield fans unquestioningly accepting moving out of town because "Ken knows what he is doing" is just bonkers to me.

[sentoffagain2]

     May be right for Giants to move to The Shay for a few seasons.I would hope no merger is proposed and Fax still continue we can't afford to lose them.Returning to a purpose built  stadium if land was sourced in Huddersfield would cost over £20 million.That is on the conservative side probably £25/£30 million for a 10,000 capacity one.Building and material costs have gone through the roof since the Covid shutdowns.However Rachel is in China drumming up trade links.The Chinese could probably build a  stadium for a few grand,how long it would last is anyone's guess.

[Blind side johnny]

2 minutes ago, M j M said:

I'm not questioning that without Davy there wouldn't be a club or that they need a smaller ground.  And I've repeatedly acknowledged the club's growth in fans since moving to the stadium. That's part of the point.

But Davy definitely hasn't shown himself immune from poor decision making and Huddersfield fans unquestioningly accepting moving out of town because "Ken knows what he is doing" is just bonkers to me.

I am not a Giants fan, by the way, but do live in Huddersfield.

Do tell me what options Giants fans have, other than not going to games? If you are using this forum as your yardstick of "unquestioning" then you are very wrong.

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, daz39 said:

Our club and most certainly our fans do not like the stadium, it's one of the main reason a lot of fans have stopped going, we have no space or branding there, it's depressing but most of all the longer we are there the more IMG points we will lose.

It gives a bad image of the club, hell just look at the comments on here with 4,500 in it, put them in the Shay and it looks miles better already.

It's not just about atmosphere it's about making sure we keep our SL status, where we currently are we have no chance of improving our scores, at the Shay we have till we can get back 'home'.

There will be no cost to fans, free travel will be provided, for those who use buses/trains, the bus to 'fax takes 25 minutes from Huddersfield bus station and the train is 11 minutes.

We have no idea how many will go, a lot of us who remember the 3 game sin 2011 seem to have enjoyed the Shay, some are already looking forward to a change of scenery away from the horrid place we currently use so it's all a big what if at the moment.

As a Giants fan you either trust Ken or you don't, i guess we will see who does in the future.

My view is whether you end up in Halifax permanently, or get a new ground back in Hudds, it will all be because of Ken’s good work in the best interests of the club, and either will be better than John Smiths or the alternative (which is far, far worse eh)

The game can never have enough Kens