Dave T Posted September 21 Author Share Posted September 21 16 minutes ago, sam4731 said: The maths of why top 3 over top 5 is far more proportionate: 5th place in SL over the past 4 seasons has required an average of 55% points won across the regular season. Obviously if you were to win a further 3 games to win the GF that would be boosted but with a 5 team playoff, it would be possible to be champions with a regular season percentage of this 55% figure. For comparison, over the same time frame the Premier League has required an average point percentage of 78% to be champions. However 3rd place in SL over this time period has required an average regular season points percentage of 71%. SL needs a GF but 55% win percentage is not enough. I would argue that 71% is pretty close to fair even though that team wouldn't finish top. I'm not too concerned about the % really, it's not something most people would pay attention to. One thing I do find though is that in some previous systems it did feel more rewarding by position. When we first went to a top 6, teams outside of the top 2 had to win 3 games before you got to the Grand Final. So Saints would have had to play away at Wire, then Salford/Leigh, then Hull KR/Wigan to make the GF, whereas now it would be beat Wire, then beat Wigan - which isn't easy, but that extra game would make things challenging. It's interesting to look at the NRL too on the win % thing - in 2021, Gold Coast won only 10 of their 24 games and made the top 8. Most years the 8th place team seems to be 12 out of 24 wins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 (edited) On 21/09/2024 at 10:06, Dave T said: Odd approach to pricing for the playoffs. Wire v Saints is standard SL pricing minus £5 for members. £5 admission for juniors. Salford v Leigh starts at £10 for adults, £1 for kids. Hopefully we get two great crowds and noisy atmospheres. Leigh only got 2600 which went in a hour, poor by both clubs and way too cheap Edited September 22 by sweaty craiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly-By-TheWire Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 1 hour ago, Ned Smiley said: The Leigh game is at Salford Same same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT RL Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 55 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said: Leigh only got 2600 which went in a hour, just managed to get on a coach of Leythers from the boozer who have got the tickets to stand in the Salford end, he simply registered and bought them apparently How many times have Salford & Leigh and St Helens & Warrington played each other this year ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam4731 Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 4 hours ago, Dave T said: I'm not too concerned about the % really, it's not something most people would pay attention to. One thing I do find though is that in some previous systems it did feel more rewarding by position. When we first went to a top 6, teams outside of the top 2 had to win 3 games before you got to the Grand Final. So Saints would have had to play away at Wire, then Salford/Leigh, then Hull KR/Wigan to make the GF, whereas now it would be beat Wire, then beat Wigan - which isn't easy, but that extra game would make things challenging. It's interesting to look at the NRL too on the win % thing - in 2021, Gold Coast won only 10 of their 24 games and made the top 8. Most years the 8th place team seems to be 12 out of 24 wins. Finishing 8th and still having the chance to be champions is just ridiculous though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColD Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 4 hours ago, sweaty craiq said: Leigh only got 2600 which went in a hour, just managed to get on a coach of Leythers from the boozer who have got the tickets to stand in the Salford end, he simply registered and bought them apparently 2600 tickets still available I believe - gunna be a right meltdown going on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 (edited) 10 hours ago, Griff said: But we can't sell tickets for the play-off games - apart from the final. What does that have to do with anything I said? Edited September 21 by Sports Prophet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 34 minutes ago, ColD said: 2600 tickets still available I believe - gunna be a right meltdown going on Seems a bit of a farce all round, but I can guarantee the initial allocation won’t have been anywhere near 2,600 nor anyone who wants a ticket will miss out on a ticket (personally I’ll be searching out a pub in London to watch the game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 7 hours ago, Dave T said: That's incredibly simplistic analysis. It's a commercial reality. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 21 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: What does that have to do with anything I said? Why would we need an extra game that we can't sell tickets for? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 11 minutes ago, Griff said: Why would we need an extra game that we can't sell tickets for? Pardon my mistake, I thought when you referred to “we can’t sell tickets”, for some reason I thought you were referring to individual clubs not setting prices and getting the takings. That is a fair comment you make, however, I do think the fixtures of a top 5 does have a better storyline than those of a top 6. Probably marginal now I think about it. In any case, those fixtures need attention and billing for the big match they are. We aren’t in a build it and they will come situation unfortunately, which seems to be far often the strategy the sport takes. In the old NSWRL, finals were played at central stadiums. SCG or SFS. I don’t suppose there is a single central venue available for three weeks of finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowys Backside Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Leigh will take at least 4000 to Salford and none will have an issue getting a ticket (unless they want a stand unoccupied) It’s up to Salford to sell theirs ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 36 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Pardon my mistake, I thought when you referred to “we can’t sell tickets”, for some reason I thought you were referring to individual clubs not setting prices and getting the takings. That is a fair comment you make, however, I do think the fixtures of a top 5 does have a better storyline than those of a top 6. Probably marginal now I think about it. In any case, those fixtures need attention and billing for the big match they are. We aren’t in a build it and they will come situation unfortunately, which seems to be far often the strategy the sport takes. In the old NSWRL, finals were played at central stadiums. SCG or SFS. I don’t suppose there is a single central venue available for three weeks of finals. I like the five-team-one-drops-out-every-week system but our season is already too long and, as advertised earlier, for whatever reason, crowds are not what they should be for these important games. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 7 minutes ago, Griff said: I like the five-team-one-drops-out-every-week system but our season is already too long and, as advertised earlier, for whatever reason, crowds are not what they should be for these important games. I think a lot of it has to do with how long the season is and the lack of exclusivity of playing an opponent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 11 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said: NRL play off system is brilliant SL is c--p Yep, starting the SL play-offs with the four weakest sides doesn't exactly kick things off with a bang. I don't know who came up with that and thought it was an enticing prospect to have Teams 1 and 2 sitting things out as things ostensibly hotted-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Possibly would be better to concentrate on getting this sort of stuff right rather than pie baking. 6 1 I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said: Yep, starting the SL play-offs with the four weakest sides doesn't exactly kick things off with a bang. I don't know who came up with that and thought it was an enticing prospect to have Teams 1 and 2 sitting things out as things ostensibly hotted-up. The much vaunted five team play off system has the top team sitting out in week 1 and, maybe, week 3. Maybe the idea comes from there. 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 3 hours ago, Just Browny said: Possibly would be better to concentrate on getting this sort of stuff right rather than pie baking. Somebody luvved up but it was easy to buy off Salford which seems that many have done clearing out blocks W01/2/3. 2600 was a joke and the club got it wrong, it was like Oasis all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) Do I have to watch Saints again? I’m not going to Warrington-Saints. Saints didn’t come and see me when I was bad! I do think the regular season/league phase is too long which devalues the playoffs - it feels like we’ve already established over 27 games who the best team is. The Grand Final is a great innovation but the whole structure of the season is still a work in progress. It feels slightly unfair that some league leaders haven’t been crowned champions in the past like say Castleford for example. Maybe if the league phase/regular season was only home and away there might be more interest in the playoffs. Maybe an elongated cup could be formed to make up the shortfall in home match revenue. Personalljy I’d like to see our top 4 play the Aussie top four in a kind of Chanpions League competition taking place during the season, but sadly our Australian friends don’t need it and it’s far away from ever happening. Edited September 22 by Gerrumonside ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 Apparently there has been a mix up at Leigh, tickets were put on sale before they should have been, and now those who have purchased have been retracted and monies reimbursed. The problem was that the members - Season Ticket Holders - of which there are 5 grades should have been offered the tickets first, so they are going on sale to the top category on Monday and then being offered on a sliding scale going through the memberships at certain times over the next two days till 5pm on Wednesday when they will be on sale (if any left) to non members. I suppose really it is the fairest way to do it, if you are a season ticket holder you should get first offer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Apparently there has been a mix up at Leigh, tickets were put on sale before they should have been, and now those who have purchased have been retracted and monies reimbursed. The problem was that the members - Season Ticket Holders - of which there are 5 grades should have been offered the tickets first, so they are going on sale to the top category on Monday and then being offered on a sliding scale going through the memberships at certain times over the next two days till 5pm on Wednesday when they will be on sale (if any left) to non members. I suppose really it is the fairest way to do it, if you are a season ticket holder you should get first offer. Agreed Harry it is the fairest way but you’d be disappointed to think you’d got tickers for the big game and then later they were revoked. Hopefullh Leigh Leopards can make a goodwill gesture to those people affected. Great to see the appetite for tickets though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: Do I have to watch Saints again? I’m not going to Warrington-Saints. Saints didn’t come and see me when I was bad! I do think the regular season/league phase is too long which devalues the playoffs - it feels like we’ve already established over 27 games who the best team is. The Grand Final is a great innovation but the whole structure of the season is still a work in progress. It feels slightly unfair that some league leaders haven’t been crowned champions in the past like say Castleford for example. Maybe if the league phase/regular season was only home and away there might be more interest in the playoffs. Maybe an elongated cup could be formed to make up the shortfall in home match revenue. Personalljy I’d like to see our top 4 play the Aussie top four in a kind of Chanpions League competition taking place during the season, but sadly our Australian friends don’t need it and it’s far away from ever happening. If it was a season of equal number of home and away fixtures where each team played each other, then the League Leaders like in Football PL are effectively the Champions and there should be no reason whatsoever for play offs or a Grand Final except for it being a money spinner. The reason we have play offs is that in a disjointed league programme such as the additional loopy fixtures then the League Leaders are just that, they are not the Champion team, I remember when the 'Championship' began then we had just the one division with 30 clubs in it, impossible for every club to play each other hone and away and it was nessacary to have play offs. Edited September 22 by Harry Stottle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: If it was a season of equal number of home and away fixtures where each team played each other, then the League Leaders like in Football PL are effectively the Champions and there should be no reason whatsoever for play offs or a Grand Final except for it being a money spinner. The reason we have play offs is that in a disjointed league programme such as the additional loopy fixtures then the League Leaders are just that, they are not the Champion team, I remember when the 'Championship' began then we had just the one division with 30 clubs in it, impossible for every club to play each other and it was nessacary to have play offs. We have playoffs because we need to establish two teams for a Grand Final and we want to make the money that comes with it in my opinion. For reasons of player welfare and scarcity value, I would like to see the league phase/regular season reduced somewhat before we get to the playoffs. I know not everyone agrees but the amount of Saints-Wigan etc showpiece games just seems too many. I’d rather get excited about a couple of really big games every season than the attitude of well it won’t be long until the next one. I don’t feel the same level of anticipation or build up that I used to in the past for the biggest of games. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 6 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: We have playoffs because we need to establish two teams for a Grand Final and we want to make the money that comes with it in my opinion. For reasons of player welfare and scarcity value, I would like to see the league phase/regular season reduced somewhat before we get to the playoffs. I know not everyone agrees but the amount of Saints-Wigan etc showpiece games just seems too many. I’d rather get excited about a couple of really big games every season than the attitude of well it won’t be long until the next one. I don’t feel the same level of anticipation or build up that I used to in the past for the biggest of games. So the answer for you is keep to 12 teams home and away and reducing the number if fixtures, but as said earlier they would be effectivly be the Champions by virtue of every club playing each other and not just League Leaders. But this is us were money rears its head, the Owners say not enough fixtures and the GF will still be played, perhaps it should be renamed from Champions to .............? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: So the answer for you is keep to 12 teams home and away and reducing the number if fixtures, but as said earlier they would be effectivly be the Champions by virtue of every club playing each other and not just League Leaders. But this is us were money rears its head, the Owners say not enough fixtures and the GF will still be played, perhaps it should be renamed from Champions to .............? I think trying to turn the Grand Final into a rerun of the Premiership won’t cut it with TV or the sponsors, but I can understand the urge. I agree that the owners want a level of income that could be realised through bigger gates for less games or even the elongating of the cup or a new competition altogether with the best of the NRL and SL playing in massive games. I sympathise with your feeling that even 22 games home and away would be enough to legitimise the winners of that phase as true champions. I’m also bearing in mind that I’m feeling fatigue as a Saints fan and Leigh/Hull KR/Wire/Salford fans are probably much more excited about the playoffs this year and the chance to be champions. Edited September 22 by Gerrumonside ref 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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