Kangaroos Selection - 2024 including Pong-gate

[Sports Prophet]

44 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

…

Why do you think they were done away with, if not to focus attention in on Origin and present players with the NRL's pyramid of priority?

It’s my understanding they were very unprofitable for a start. Were they played on standalone international weekends in 17/18? If not, losing quality players, compromising the club game, for a loss making exercise during COVID, where the NRL made dozens of redundancies and pulled the two on field referees as a cost cutting exercise all comes to mind as a legitimate reason why they didn’t continue into the first half of this decade.

What I will say is that it’s great to see under the leadership of PVL and Abdo to try and resurrect mid season internationals.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

…

Why do you think they were done away with, if not to focus attention in on Origin and present players with the NRL's pyramid of priority?

Double post

Edited October 4 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

…

Why do you think they were done away with, if not to focus attention in on Origin and present players with the NRL's pyramid of priority?

 

Edited October 4 by Sports Prophet

[StandOffHalf]

18 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s my understanding they were very unprofitable for a start. Were they played on standalone international weekends in 17/18? If not, losing quality players, compromising the club game, for a loss making exercise during COVID, where the NRL made dozens of redundancies and pulled the two on field referees as a cost cutting exercise all comes to mind as a legitimate reason why they didn’t continue into the first half of this decade.

What I will say is that it’s great to see under the leadership of PVL and Abdo to try and resurrect mid season internationals.

I seem to remember that there was a stand-alone international weekend, but I'm not 100 per cent sure that it was that way every year.

Match highlights: Samoa v Tonga – Pacific test, 2018 | NRL.com

There are star players here and a great, passionate atmosphere. Samoa vs Tonga sells itself.

I certainly hope that the current NRL leadership makes international football more than three games post-season. I am not optimistic quite frankly, but hope lives eternal.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I seem to remember that there was a stand-alone international weekend, but I'm not 100 per cent sure that it was that way every year.

Match highlights: Samoa v Tonga – Pacific test, 2018 | NRL.com

There are star players here and a great, passionate atmosphere. Samoa vs Tonga sells itself.

I certainly hope that the current NRL leadership makes international football more than three games post-season. I am not optimistic quite frankly, but hope lives eternal.

So with a bit of research, that 2018 international was on a standalone weekend which included the Denver test and Game 2 of SOO. IIRC, this weekend Origin fixture was a one year trial.

Now despite some good names in that Tonga v Samoa matchup, I don’t really see many of them at the time having chosen a Tonga or Samoa jumper over a Qld or NSW jumper as has been suggested was the precursor for cancelling these tests moving forward. It counters the theory (mind you, without totally discrediting) there was already a mass exodus of Samoans and Tongans choosing to skip the Origin jersey. In fact  it backs up the theory that players were still committed to the Origin jersey  over the various Pacific Isles opportunities that particular weekend (Josh Papa’, Felise Kau’, Tyson Friz’, Anthony Milf’ ((game 1)) and Tariq Simms ((game 3))).

Without drawing into a Denver Test argument again, we do know the NRL and the clubs were steadfast against Denver and I can understandably accept their argument around the disruption flying around the world for that fixture would cause, but I accept the hinderance from the NRL was born out of selfishness, but I don’t think the NRL should be apologising for that selfishness. It was a disruption and there was no tangible benefit and the intangible benefit was negligible at best. That has always been my opinion and those on the other side of the argument definitely have merit to their position, but those merits doesn’t sway me from siding with the NRL on that piece, so it need not be argued further, or won’t be by me at least.

Edited October 4 by Sports Prophet

[Click]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So with a bit of research, that 2018 international was on a standalone weekend which included the Denver test and Game 2 of SOO. IIRC, this weekend Origin fixture was a one year trial.

Now despite some good names in that Tonga v Samoa matchup, I don’t really see many of them at the time having chosen a Tonga or Samoa jumper over a Qld or NSW jumper as has been suggested was the precursor for cancelling these tests moving forward. It counters the theory (mind you, without totally discrediting) there was already a mass exodus of Samoans and Tongans choosing to skip the Origin jersey. In fact  it backs up the theory that players were still committed to the Origin jersey  over the various Pacific Isles opportunities that particular weekend (Josh Papa’, Felise Kau’, Tyson Friz’, Anthony Milf’ ((game 1)) and Tariq Simms ((game 3))).

Without drawing into a Denver Test argument again, we do know the NRL and the clubs were steadfast against Denver and I can understandably accept their argument around the disruption flying around the world for that fixture would cause, but I accept the hinderance from the NRL was born out of selfishness, but I don’t think the NRL should be apologising for that selfishness. It was a disruption and there was no tangible benefit and the intangible benefit was negligible at best. That has always been my opinion and those on the other side of the argument definitely have merit to their position, but those merits doesn’t sway me from siding with the NRL on that piece, so it need not be argued further, or won’t be by me at least.

I don't think we have seen anything from you that would suggest you would side with the NRL whatever they do...

[StandOffHalf]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

So with a bit of research, that 2018 international was on a standalone weekend which included the Denver test and Game 2 of SOO. IIRC, this weekend Origin fixture was a one year trial.

Now despite some good names in that Tonga v Samoa matchup, I don’t really see many of them at the time having chosen a Tonga or Samoa jumper over a Qld or NSW jumper as has been suggested was the precursor for cancelling these tests moving forward. It counters the theory (mind you, without totally discrediting) there was already a mass exodus of Samoans and Tongans choosing to skip the Origin jersey. In fact  it backs up the theory that players were still committed to the Origin jersey  over the various Pacific Isles opportunities that particular weekend (Josh Papa’, Felise Kau’, Tyson Friz’, Anthony Milf’ ((game 1)) and Tariq Simms ((game 3))).

Without drawing into a Denver Test argument again, we do know the NRL and the clubs were steadfast against Denver and I can understandably accept their argument around the disruption flying around the world for that fixture would cause, but I accept the hinderance from the NRL was born out of selfishness, but I don’t think the NRL should be apologising for that selfishness. It was a disruption and there was no tangible benefit and the intangible benefit was negligible at best. That has always been my opinion and those on the other side of the argument definitely have merit to their position, but those merits doesn’t sway me from siding with the NRL on that piece, so it need not be argued further, or won’t be by me at least.

Thanks for the research.

I suppose my point really is that if these tests were continued in a fashion like 2018 it would show the attractiveness of internationals and make them a viable avenue for islander Origin reps to consider.

I think that is primarily why they were snuffed out, but I appreciate your counter-points. It is always good to be aware of other takes.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Thanks for the research.

I suppose my point really is that if these tests were continued in a fashion like 2018 it would show the attractiveness of internationals and make them a viable avenue for islander Origin reps to consider.

I think that is primarily why they were snuffed out, but I appreciate your counter-points. It is always good to be aware of other takes.

I appreciate a civil conversation so thank you, it’s rare opposing views on this forum can be conducted in such manner.

I expect one of the biggest issues on the horizon then, will be one of the biggest issues again when considering again. The RLPA will insist on players in international fixtures organised by the NRL to be remunerated to a much higher amount than they were back in 2018. 

What was known to be unprofitable then, will become even more expensive in the future. With that, a multi weekend rep schedule would seem less likely and the reintroduction of a single rep weekend which includes Origin seems like the logical starting point for an NRL which would be aiming to bring back mid season test matches.

[StandOffHalf]

3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I appreciate a civil conversation so thank you, it’s rare opposing views on this forum can be conducted in such manner.

I expect one of the biggest issues on the horizon then, will be one of the biggest issues again when considering again. The RLPA will insist on players in international fixtures organised by the NRL to be remunerated to a much higher amount than they were back in 2018. 

What was known to be unprofitable then, will become even more expensive in the future. With that, a multi weekend rep schedule would seem less likely and the reintroduction of a single rep weekend which includes Origin seems like the logical starting point for an NRL which would be aiming to bring back mid season test matches.

If the internationals are part of the TV deal I would hope that the money could be raised.

I agree that one international round would be a good start.

[Anita Bath]

You have two camps of committed fans in SOO. Aussies have little interest in seeing the kangaroos win yet another tournament. Now if the kiwis were to win 40-50% of games against kangaroos ( or GB/England provide the same sort of competition) then I expect the interest and crowds would be much better. 1 world cup in the last 50 years won by another team.  Is there any other sport with such dominance at the national team level?

[StandOffHalf]

As to the battle for the #1 spot...

I can't see how you'd drop Teddy, unless you wanted to mete out late punishments for last year's 30-0 drubbing.

Dylan Edward is really solid and strong, but Teddy is a better all-round player and had an incredible back half to the season.

You don't drop the Dally M fullback of the year and the national captain. To do so would be a travesty, after how he's played in 2024.

Ponga could maybe play #6, with Edwards on the wing?

[MatthewWoody]

On 03/10/2024 at 09:52, Dunbar said:

Taumalolo has represented Australian Schoolboys, New Zealand and Tonga.  I am ok with players playing for anyone they are eligible for but if we are not careful representative Rugby League can start to look like All Stars games with no actual rivalry, just let's have some good players play each other.

This is 2024 and a lot of people do have multiple family heritage. 

[Tommygilf]

How many Kangaroos will get picked that haven't played origin? When that starts to tip I think we'll see a reconsideration perhaps.

[MatthewWoody]

14 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

You have two camps of committed fans in SOO. Aussies have little interest in seeing the kangaroos win yet another tournament. Now if the kiwis were to win 40-50% of games against kangaroos ( or GB/England provide the same sort of competition) then I expect the interest and crowds would be much better. 1 world cup in the last 50 years won by another team.  Is there any other sport with such dominance at the national team level?

This. 

Although the game is growing in NZ, their national team don't have the support NSW and Queensland have. 

Let't not forget when they played Tonga at home... they didn't seem to be playing at home. 

I know Australian people who sometimes are "happy" if NZ beats the Kangaroos for the love of the game. Doesn't look like a rivalry you could compare to SOO.

[Dunbar]

19 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

This is 2024 and a lot of people do have multiple family heritage. 

Of course, as I say I support anyone deciding to play for a country they are eligible for.

[MatthewWoody]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Of course, as I say I support anyone deciding to play for a country they are eligible for.

I meant, as in real life you can feel both, say, American and Australian, I don't have any problem with people switching during their career. Especially in sports like ours, with so few playing nations. 

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I meant, as in real life you can feel both, say, American and Australian, I don't have any problem with people switching during their career. Especially in sports like ours, with so few playing nations. 

Yes, I agree.  As I have said on here before, my daughter is both British on my side and Italian on my wife's side and absolutely is connected to both.

My point on the switching was really in the context of Origin.  If Origin is full of players playing for many nations then when will it stop feeling like NSW vs QLD when the players don't represent the country in which those states are in.

If our Australian friends are OK with it then fine.

[MatthewWoody]

Yeah, maybe. 

I wouldn't accept any non Australian in SOO. 

[Anita Bath]

19 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Yeah, maybe. 

I wouldn't accept any non Australian in SOO. 

or any non queenslander or non NSW born.

[Dunbar]

Below is the Australian selection for the upcoming Pacific Chamopionship with players in their likely positions.

For me, the strength is in the back row of the pack but very much an untested spine at international level.

1. Dylan Edwards

2. Zac Lomax

3. Tom Trbojevic or Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow

4. Bradman Best

5. Xavier Coates

6. Tom Dearden or Matt Burton

7. Mitch Moses

8. Pat Carrigan

9. Harry Grant

10. Mitch Barnett

11. Liam Martin

12. Angus Crichton

13. Isaah Yeo
 

14. Lindsay Collins or Lindsay Smith

15. Reuben Cotter

16. Ben Hunt or Reece Robson

17. Cameron Murray

[Tommygilf]

How does that squad compare with Origin experience? 

[Dunbar]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

How does that squad compare with Origin experience? 

Sorry, I am not sure I understand the question.

But they have all played Origin as far as I can see and the vast majority played Origin in 2024 so certainly a selection from QLD and NSW this year.

[Dave T]

On 04/10/2024 at 22:15, Anita Bath said:

Aussies have little interest in seeing the kangaroos win yet another tournament. Now if the kiwis were to win 40-50% of games against kangaroos ( or GB/England provide the same sort of competition) then I expect the interest and crowds would be much better. 1 world cup in the last 50 years won by another team.  Is there any other sport with such dominance at the national team level?

Ah, the lack of competitiveness point returns.

In the last 20 years, the Aussies have featured in 13 tournaments and have won 8 of them. Definitely the dominant team -  but the Kiwis have won 5 of the tournaments, and the Aussies have even lost against Tonga in recent years. They've won a World Cup Final in Brisbane 6 v 0.

This dominance argument was being used during the 80's and 90's and then despite losing more tournaments in recent years it is still trotted out. 

[GeordieSaint]

Love how Ponga hasn’t been picked. Talk about causing a hurricane of a non-issue…

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Love how Ponga hasn’t been picked. Talk about causing a hurricane of a non-issue…

And that's what I said back on page 1 when he first made himself unavailable. To me it was always far from certain that he would be picked anyway.