LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 8 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: 2 for one? The Rhinos is an interesting one, as A designer I think its objectively outdated and a bit rubbish, but it's so well known I think they are related;uctant to change it, however in the hands a of a decent branding agency it could easily be modernised and look far better, I think probably they can't justify the cost though. I'd love them to update it. The Leigh Leopards branding is absolutely one of the worst Ive ever seen. Not the rebrand as in the name, I think that was a good idea but the execution is simply amateurish, they are 'lucky' (and I mean that only in regards to branding) that they have been a success on the field which has made people overlook how terrible the branding actually is. The success of branding is not measured by how aesthetically pleasing it is, particularly to a forum like this which is a largely middle aged men and older. The leopards branding might not appeal to you, but it reaches far further and wider than it ever could before because people like you will amplify it with criticism. Personal taste is personal taste, but it’s objectively been a success because the numbers are there for all to see. Putting it just down to luck of a cup run just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of marketing. 1
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 23 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said: It might be real, it just looked AI to me. And awful. If it is AI then that would be very dumb of them as they’d be unable to trademark their own logo.
wroteforluck87 Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 1 hour ago, Mark said: Looking at the replies on social media from Swinton fans, is mostly positive. The first reply I saw on X was 'ohhh ###### off' 1
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 18 minutes ago, LeytherRob said: The success of branding is not measured by how aesthetically pleasing it is, particularly to a forum like this which is a largely middle aged men and older. The leopards branding might not appeal to you, but it reaches far further and wider than it ever could before because people like you will amplify it with criticism. Personal taste is personal taste, but it’s objectively been a success because the numbers are there for all to see. Putting it just down to luck of a cup run just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of marketing. I’ve worked in Branding and design for over 25 years, the Leigh Leopards logo is objectively terrible and poorly designed. Changing the name to Leopards was a great idea. But if you think success on the pitch isn’t massively important for sports marketing I’m not sure it’s me who doesn’t understand marketing. I also used Luck in a different way to you are implying. 1
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 20 minutes ago, LeytherRob said: If it is AI then that would be very dumb of them as they’d be unable to trademark their own logo. I think it’s more likely to be a stock illustration not Ai. 1
sam4731 Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 I had a go at AI Swinton Lions logo creation and this is what it spat out. I think it's actually better. 1
gingerjon Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 1 minute ago, sam4731 said: I had a go at AI Swinton Lions logo creation and this is what it spat out. I think it's actually better. That's a unique spelling of Lions 3 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)
DI Keith Fowler Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 If you google "lion sports logo", you can get a million logos just like it. It looks like exactly what it is, a stock image that will no doubt have also been sold to a load of American high school football teams. Same as Halifax Panthers. I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.
Gav Wilson Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 2 minutes ago, sam4731 said: I had a go at AI Swinton Lions logo creation and this is what it spat out. I think it's actually better. Bit of a Russian vibe to it @GavWilson
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: I’ve worked in Branding and design for over 25 years, the Leigh Leopards logo is objectively terrible and poorly designed. Changing the name to Leopards was a great idea. But if you think success on the pitch isn’t massively important for sports marketing I’m not sure it’s me who doesn’t understand marketing. I also used Luck in a different way to you are implying. No that is something that is by very definition, subjective. Otherwise, the phrase would be ‘art is completely objecting and quantifiable’ which does not roll off the tongue in quite the same way. But even if it was the case, it’s entirely irrelevant to marketing especially in the digital world. That’s why radio and TV advert jingles go out of their way to be as annoying as possible because now you’d be hard pressed to find someone that hasn’t heard of Go Compare or WeBuyAnyCar. I also didn’t say success on the pitch isn’t a factor, only that is isn’t the only factor which is what you were implying when claiming luck. Leigh have had success before, but never the full club momentum it has currently and the brand is undoubtedly a contributing factor. again, you seem to be conflating ‘that doesn’t look cool’ with ‘that won’t achieve the objectives of extending that brands reach and making the club or company more money’. 1
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 1 minute ago, LeytherRob said: No that is something that is by very definition, subjective. Otherwise, the phrase would be ‘art is completely objecting and quantifiable’ which does not roll off the tongue in quite the same way. But even if it was the case, it’s entirely irrelevant to marketing especially in the digital world. That’s why radio and TV advert jingles go out of their way to be as annoying as possible because now you’d be hard pressed to find someone that hasn’t heard of Go Compare or WeBuyAnyCar. I also didn’t say success on the pitch isn’t a factor, only that is isn’t the only factor which is what you were implying when claiming luck. Leigh have had success before, but never the full club momentum it has currently and the brand is undoubtedly a contributing factor. again, you seem to be conflating ‘that doesn’t look cool’ with ‘that won’t achieve the objectives of extending that brands reach and making the club or company more money’. No you’re confused about what Im calling objectively rubbish. The logo is objectively a rubbish design, design might be ‘subjective’ but in reality there are fundamentals of design otherwise you wouldn’t have professional designers, which the Leigh logo was definitely not designed by. The overall branding as in the name and the cut through has been a success partly because of the success on the pitch and partly because they've done a fairly decent job in making a lot of noise with their marketing, it hasn’t been a success because of the terribly designed logo. 1
OriginalMrC Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 I don't think it looks too bad but it's clear it's been created using AI and its not going to be suitable for all the things logos are used on now. Logos should be simple, bold, and easily reproduced. I don't think this will work.
Ned Smiley Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Maybe we asked Kilshaw to do it on PowerPoint before he left
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: No you’re confused about what Im calling objectively rubbish. The logo is objectively a rubbish design, design might be ‘subjective’ but in reality there are fundamentals of design otherwise you wouldn’t have professional designers, which the Leigh logo was definitely not designed by. The overall branding as in the name and the cut through has been a success partly because of the success on the pitch and partly because they've done a fairly decent job in making a lot of noise with their marketing, it hasn’t been a success because of the terribly designed logo. Those fundamentals you refer to are just based on a subjective opinion on what some people think design should be. They aren’t objective because there is not way to measure art. Some people like the logo, some people hate it, some are indifferent. None of them are wrong.
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 3 minutes ago, LeytherRob said: Those fundamentals you refer to are just based on a subjective opinion on what some people think design should be. They aren’t objective because there is not way to measure art. Some people like the logo, some people hate it, some are indifferent. None of them are wrong. No, something can be objectively badly designed but someone subjectively might like the look of it. There are principles of good and bad design especially in branding. Take the Swinton logo, you might like the look of it, but technically it really doesn’t work on all the places it is going to appear (like the SM profile i posted) that is bad design, that’s not subjective. 1
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Just now, Chrispmartha said: No, something can be objectively badly designed but someone subjectively might like the look of it. There are principles of good and bad design especially in branding. Take the Swinton logo, you might like the look of it, but technically it really doesn’t work on all the places it is going to appear (like the SM profile i posted) that is bad design, that’s not subjective. Ok, can you let me know what the quantifiable, non opinion based metrics for an objectively good or bad design would be?
Henson Park Old Firm Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: It does. But we have some shocking branding examples that seem to work fine in RL. Leeds Rhinos is a prime example, and that's before you get to Leigh's. Edit - the below took under 2 minutes on Canva. More or less time than Swinton's logo took? Swintion Satanic Lions? 1
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Just now, LeytherRob said: Ok, can you let me know what the quantifiable, non opinion based metrics for an objectively good or bad design would be? Ive just given you one. There are many others like it. I haven’t got the inclination to go through them and argue the toss with you to be honest.
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Just now, Chrispmartha said: Ive just given you one. There are many others like it. I haven’t got the inclination to go through them and argue the toss with you to be honest. No you gave me a subjective one based on whether or not you think it looks good in a specific situation. It’s still an opinion. Ultimately, you can’t give me a list because it doesn’t exist, otherwise it would have been on page 1 of this thread and page 1 of the Leigh rebrand thread, because it would be a very easy thing to spell out- all objective measurements are.
Just Browny Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 I think the LDL are now the premier DL. And the Swinton badge is terrible. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.
Chrispmartha Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 1 minute ago, LeytherRob said: No you gave me a subjective one based on whether or not you think it looks good in a specific situation. It’s still an opinion. Ultimately, you can’t give me a list because it doesn’t exist, otherwise it would have been on page 1 of this thread and page 1 of the Leigh rebrand thread, because it would be a very easy thing to spell out- all objective measurements are. Sorry but this is nonsense and shows your lack of knowledge surrounding branding and design. I know you Leigh fans can’t stand anyone criticising your club just remember it isn’t personal. 1
Henson Park Old Firm Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 2 minutes ago, Just Browny said: I think the LDL are now the premier DL. And the Swinton badge is terrible. It reminds me of the Halifax Panthers badge.
LeytherRob Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Just now, Chrispmartha said: Sorry but this is nonsense and shows your lack of knowledge surrounding branding and design. I know you Leigh fans can’t stand anyone criticising your club just remember it isn’t personal. I’ve got no problem with criticism, as I said it only ultimately amplifies the reach of the club when people hate click. I do have a problem with with people attempt to pass off opinion as objective fact. A 25 year veteran of the marketing industry should have had no problem setting me straight with why I’m wrong but here you are, resorting to ad hominem attacks on Leigh fans.
Colin James Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 This doesn't look like a logo that will last. I will be surprised if it is still in use five years from now and surely the minimum requirement for a rebrand is something that has longevity? I really liked the previous one, I understand the Manchester reference being unpopular/unnecessary but that could have been removed with a simple reworking of that badge rather than a total change. Sorry to say but this looks really poorly executed. Also having been announcing signings under the old branding the timing seems a bit odd. You've got player announcements from this week with the old logo all over them. The idea that the badge can attract fans is nonsense. People will go if the following things are in place: 1) winning team, 2) good match day experience, 3) Ticket pricing is correct. The badge is so irrelevant in attendances, I've seen people suggest this might attract younger fans but not really said why it would. I hope I'm wrong. 3
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