IMG, it might be working?

[Charlie]

The way I see it ( may be biased) but Salford have been given time due to the stadium deal opening new opportunities, there’s no excuse for us to be in this position next year, hopefully one of these investors come in and we can actually kick on ! New academy reserves all in place now 

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If Salford had gone into administration, they would have been relegated.

This system doesn't test how things might be in the future, it tests them at the moment they are viewed. That means it can't give Castleford an amazing stadium as much as it can't give Salford an administration before it has happened.

Salford scored really very badly on finances. The system is not set up to exclusively score finances however, and Salford have, just, been able to make up the difference in the other categories. That is by design, at the behest of the sport which wanted on field to remain the most important aspect.

Yes, this is all pretty straightforward. If we had a system that placed greater emphasis on certain criteria that would lead to complaints too.

[Charlie]

Just now, Damien said:

Yes, this is all pretty straightforward. If we had a system that placed greater emphasis on certain criteria that would lead to complaints too.

There always gonna be a issue or a way to get around the grades look at cas 

[Damien]

Just now, Charlie said:

There always gonna be a issue or a way to get around the grades look at cas 

Yep. What we have now is probably quite broad brush and something achievable for everyone. The moment that becomes heavily skewed towards finances then people will complain it favours big clubs and means that smaller and/or Championship clubs dont stand a chance.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Roughyed Rats said:

I see that the Premier League has dropped IMG and gone in-house for media production. 

Factual:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4172032

Conjectural:

The IMG Premier League team moves off the IMG payroll and onto the Premier League payroll.

Conclusion: Told you so.  the RFL/IMG deal is rubbish, a failure, won't work, Ultimate Rugby League is the future, like garlic bread and static caravan decking.

[Blind side johnny]

On 23/12/2024 at 10:10, Poptart said:

That's not IMG. They are advisors 

That's up to the RFL and the other clubs.

It doesn't matter how often this fact is pointed out there are so many folk who believe the opposite that they refuse to change that incorrect view.

[LeeF]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Your loyalty to the Red Devils is blinding you to the obvious

As you seem to be hard understanding I am not loyal to the Red Devils. You though make things up ie lie without any evidence. 

[LeeF]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

You keep ignoring the fact that IF the finances were in order why did they ask for an advance of their TV money?

Just admit that you don’t know what you are on about 

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, dkw said:

So no proof that they lied then, just conjecture. They received barely any points at all for finances, which seems to fit their report.

In other words he lied about them lying. So only one liar

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Your words "They have a cash flow problem" 

So in your opinion when will they sort out this cash flow problem, or will it continue all the while they are in Super League?

Do you actually understand cash flow? Based on your posts I suspect not

[Blind side johnny]

On 24/12/2024 at 11:12, Eddie said:

That’s fine for the small group of clubs who may have a bad season and go down, but how about clubs who might have investment if there was P&R but now won’t because there’s no chance of them getting into the SL closed shop?   

Did these clubs do this pre-IMG?

If so, how did it work out?

[Exiled Wiganer]

27 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Factual:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4172032

Conjectural:

The IMG Premier League team moves off the IMG payroll and onto the Premier League payroll.

Conclusion: Told you so.  the RFL/IMG deal is rubbish, a failure, won't work, Ultimate Rugby League is the future, like garlic bread and static caravan decking.

You get very angry indeed about anything anti IMG. I have no idea why that should be. It seems disproportionate, and may be unhealthy. 

Let me expand on my perspective. I confess to having had professional dealings directly with IMG stretching back to 2017, and have known and loved rugby league for over 50 years. From my knowledge of IMG and our game, what I would have done is ask them to look into what broadcasting/sponsorship deals we can get, and how we should market ourselves. I would categorically have not asked them to carry out the exercise they have just done, as I believe that 1) they will add nothing, 2) the game knows itself and its clubs far better than external accountants and 3) if there is anything which should be done in house it is grading the clubs. The Salford situation is entirely consistent with my take on it. 

However, and it is a big however, I can see a point in IMG advising as to how the game should look if it wants to increase revenues from sponsors/broadcasters. If we want them to sell something, then it makes sense for them to have an input into what needs to be done to sell that thing. Who knows they may even have ideas which allow the world to “reimagine” the game. It is not an insane judgement call to say that, as they are taking the lead on how to sell the game they should take on the role they have taken on. My judgment call would have been different, but I can see the argument.

What really puzzles me about the IMG ultras is how they characterise any criticism and any critic of what has been done so far as being insane/obsessed. In particular, I find the hysterical attacks on anyone criticising the process in the light of the Salford debacle off the scale weird. 

To finish on some common ground. The primary goal - I assume - is to improve income streams in a competitive market. And time will tell whether IMG can do that. Instead, success may actually be to slow the decline we have seen for years. There will be a time when they are mostly doing what they do well, at which point we will be able to measure their success in pounds, shillings and pence. And I am sure we are in complete agreement that we ultimately want them and the game to succeed in driving forward the greatest game. 

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Did these clubs do this pre-IMG?

If so, how did it work out?

Very well for the likes of Hull KR and Leigh. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Did these clubs do this pre-IMG?

If so, how did it work out?

I am not sure what the questions mean, but if you are asking what clubs did prior to IMG being involved in the game, then for over 100 years they invested time and money in developing players and grounds in which games of professional rugby league can be watched. Saints and Warrington designed and built grounds far better than their historic homes, Wigan, FC and the Giants moved into incomparably better stadia, HKR (I think) redeveloped their stadium. Leeds upgraded theirs, Salford moved into a new one built locally, which in some respects is better than their previous home. I can’t comment on what Cas and Trinity have done, though the sense I have is not a great deal. So, the majority of SL clubs moved into better stadia prior to IMG’s involvement. Similarly, York, Widnes and Halifax (I may have missed many others). There had been substantial capital investment in our game long before IMG counted things. 

We can measure the end results - crowds in the SL era are far higher than they were for the 20 years preceding it, and significant support far more broadly spread. 

So, it worked out very well indeed. 

[Blind side johnny]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I am not sure what the questions mean, but if you are asking what clubs did prior to IMG being involved in the game, then for over 100 years they invested time and money in developing players and grounds in which games of professional rugby league can be watched. Saints and Warrington designed and built grounds far better than their historic homes, Wigan, FC and the Giants moved into incomparably better stadia, HKR (I think) redeveloped their stadium. Leeds upgraded theirs, Salford moved into a new one built locally, which in some respects is better than their previous home. I can’t comment on what Cas and Trinity have done, though the sense I have is not a great deal. So, the majority of SL clubs moved into better stadia prior to IMG’s involvement. Similarly, York, Widnes and Halifax (I may have missed many others). There had been substantial capital investment in our game long before IMG counted things. 

We can measure the end results - crowds in the SL era are far higher than they were for the 20 years preceding it, and significant support far more broadly spread. 

So, it worked out very well indeed. 

Thanks for that detail.

My question related to the claim that this is holding back investors into non-SL clubs because their aspirations of gaining SL status would be hindered. Other than HKR and Leigh I believe that nobody has been successful with such investment before or after the IMG influence.

[gingerjon]

17 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I confess to having had professional dealings directly with IMG stretching back to 2017,

And yet whenever anyone asks you to elaborate on the context of this, the question gets deleted.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

And yet whenever anyone asks you to elaborate on the context of this, the question gets deleted.

You really are old enough to know why that might be. 

[dkw]

19 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

You get very angry indeed about anything anti IMG. I have no idea why that should be. It seems disproportionate, and may be unhealthy. . 

Wheras you lose it if anyone dares to say anything other than negativity towards it, no idea why, it seems disproportionate and may be healthy.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

You really are old enough to know why that might be. 

Is it because it has absolutely no bearing on understanding the IMG/RFL relationship but, if you keep it vague, it might sound like it does?

Cos, if you're going into the whole "I could tell you but then I'd have to NDA you" spiel, I'll just assume it's as valid as anything that comes out of our Leigh correspondent's mouth regarding what he's heard about North American investment whilst in the LSV hospitality.

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Is it because it has absolutely no bearing on understanding the IMG/RFL relationship but, if you keep it vague, it might sound like it does?

Cos, if you're going into the whole "I could tell you but then I'd have to NDA you" spiel, I'll just assume it's as valid as anything that comes out of our Leigh correspondent's mouth regarding what he's heard about North American investment whilst in the LSV hospitality.

You can do exactly what you like. You seem to be accusing me of lying. I am not lying, and if it were appropriate to tell you I would happily do so.

[Roughyed Rats]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Factual:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/4172032

Conjectural:

The IMG Premier League team moves off the IMG payroll and onto the Premier League payroll.

Conclusion: Told you so.  the RFL/IMG deal is rubbish, a failure, won't work, Ultimate Rugby League is the future, like garlic bread and static caravan decking.

My post was a factual statement. Nothing else. No opinion expressed but you read into it whatever fits your agenda. Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me 

[Exiled Wiganer]

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

Wheras you lose it if anyone dares to say anything other than negativity towards it, no idea why, it seems disproportionate and may be healthy.

Do I lose it? Or are you projecting somewhat? Maybe you could find someone to read you all the words I have written, including my take on IMG’s role in increasing income for the game. I know it’s a long post, but surely you have a few days off? 

[JohnM]

Just now, Roughyed Rats said:

My post was a factual statement. Nothing else. No opinion expressed but you read into it whatever fits your agenda. Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me 

It wasn't aimed at your post. It was my Christmas gift to the whole forum.

[Roughyed Rats]

1 minute ago, JohnM said:

It wasn't aimed at your post. It was my Christmas gift to the whole forum.

Merry Christmas John 

[dkw]

8 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Do I lose it? Or are you projecting somewhat? Maybe you could find someone to read you all the words I have written, including my take on IMG’s role in increasing income for the game. I know it’s a long post, but surely you have a few days off? 

Do others get angry as you claim, or are you projecting?