Sarginson slams Hemel move

[DoubleD]

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_23529-sarginson-hits-out-at-hemel-move.html

If the club loses a lot of its core support by this move then that's surely one reason alone not to do it

[Evil Homer]

Good to see an established name speaking out about this.

[JoneslessBishop]

I've already signed the petition. No point in Hemel Stags in League 1 if this the approach they take

[LionelHurst]

You are right JlB.At a pinch one could accept a new club doing this initially but HH has been going for nigh on 40 years! They have been the shining light for everyone else ie own ground,sensible management etc. What is most remarkable is that the RFL has said nothing and done nothing.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Signed... it doesn't make any sense

[Colin James]

It seems they want on field success and feel the way to do that is by getting more Northern players.

But success for Hemel, Oxford, Gloucester etc surely shouldn't be judged on results against Barrow and Rochdale but how many people are involved in the game who otherwise would not have been, ultimately ending in players on the pitch from those areas coming through and maybe in some cases being good enough to play SL.

It's not easy to build credibility and a fan base if you get smashed every other week. They must have felt that this move would mean more wins and that could bring in more interest in Hemel and the surrounding areas. But it sends a poor message out to that community and it appears they have misjudged the public response. Having travelled there with Swinton last year I was really impressed with the base they have and the welcome we got. It would be a shame if this is almost Hemel admitting defeat in trying to win over the public down there.

I noticed Gloucester offering some incentives with the university to attract players. Might have been bursaries or fees paid. I hope this brings them rewards. I suppose it's like the American scholarship system. In a sport with short careers it's something other clubs could look into, Salford being a prime candidate.

[kiwis 13 6]

If it is going to alienate people who are actually from Hemel Hempstead why do it? Dewsbury already has a team? Good on Sarginson for help to bring this petition to light.

[JoneslessBishop]

What I'd like to see with the League 1 expansion teams is development officer roles offered to players willing to come south. That way the club gets hardened northern pros to improve performance, which encourages kids to get involved, the development officers ensure the game is in schools and local clubs, creating a pathway into clubs.

I think the problem for Hemel tho is that whilst Sargison states it's a slap in the face to London grass-roots RL, because of Hemels location, players are always going to favour developing at the Broncos or Skolars, so they end up with the 3rd pick. But relatively big towns locally like Watford, Hitchin, MK and Stevenage is where efforts could focus and that is where these development officers could come in.

[DoubleD]

Hemel are taking the easy way out which will fall flat. The likes of Gateshead and South Wales have done it tough, doing the hard yards by staying true to their values and local ties. They regularly got thumped but now both have good player performance pathways in place and have turned the corner. No pain, no gain

[Jim from Oz]

For a C1 with 16 teams, you can have two "pools" of 8 - the northern pool is of C1s northern teams, the southern pool is of C1s southern teams.

 

Northern pool plays each other twice = 14 games; Northern pool also plays each team in the southern pool once = 8 games = a season total of 22 games.

 

Reverse works for the southern pool:

Southern pool plays each other twice = 14 games; Southern pool also plays each team in the northern pool once = 8 games = a season total of 22 games.

 

WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF THE ABOVE TO THIS THREAD?

 

It means the southern teams don't travel as far, and play each other (the "easier" teams) twice, which gives them a bias in the ladder.

 

So a team like Hemel would do better relatively … thus would encourage more interest, spectators.

 

Hope all that makes sense … it sure makes more sense to me than Hemel's insane plan !!!

[Bearman]

It's easy to criticise Hemels decision to move their training Base out of the town but I for one would like to put in a word in their defence.

They have finished the season bottom of the table. Clearly they need to do something different.

League 1 is a professional league and by definition must be performance based. If they do nothing different next season how do they improve their position in the table?

Hemel is a fairly small town and is competing for players from a small pool which is London centric.

Clearly the answer as laid out by others is they need to produce their own players.

They have been trying to do that for thirty odd years and have uncovered the odd diamond. Unfortunately their Junior development is not producing players of a calibre that is up to standard.

I have read the statement by the club which states that they will continue to try and nurture their own players and have a development programme and manager to deliver it already in place.

So the long term fix is in place. But, as a professional organisation they need jam today.

A plan that delivers that has to be found NOW.

So criticise all you like but if you have a plan for jam today please contact Hemels Committee. I'm sure they would love your solution.

[Rach]

What I'd like to see with the League 1 expansion teams is development officer roles offered to players willing to come south. That way the club gets hardened northern pros to improve performance, which encourages kids to get involved, the development officers ensure the game is in schools and local clubs, creating a pathway into clubs.

.

They already have two development officers in place , both players from the North, university educated and experienced junior coaches who have taken the plunge and moved down to Hemel to live and play

[nadera78]

I have to be honest here and say I don't really know what the thought process is behind the expansion of Championship 1 to include these teams. I'd always admired Hemel and thought of them as a model community club - they've got their own facility, a clubhouse that brings in revenue, they have development officers and at one point had feeder teams at age-group level based around the town. I had assumed that the future would see that develop further to offer short seasons and an introduction to RL, with the Hemel Stags themselves playing at the highest level of the community game, and offering open age and juniors the opportunity to play a full length season of RL.

 

I don't quite know what the benefit is, to the club or the game in general, of having Hemel put so much time and effort into having a C1 team. Even more so if that team then relocates to the north of England. 

 

Imagine instead, a series of 6-8 community clubs in those strategic locations, playing NCL (or CLS), and offering both adults and juniors a full length RL season, with good facilities, etc. Alongside that you'd have the other clubs that offer something different by playing in the current shortened season. Just seems to make more sense to me.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Seems a real shame this. Hemel are one of the few genuine RL clubs and towns in the South. This move could really harm their identity. 

 

I dont think its such a bad thing partnering with Dewsbury per se but to be training up there all week is ridiculous and they do then literally become Dewsbury reserves.

 

Just train up there once a week and keep Hemel as Hemel.

[DoubleD]

It's easy to criticise Hemels decision to move their training Base out of the town but I for one would like to put in a word in their defence.

They have finished the season bottom of the table. Clearly they need to do something different.

League 1 is a professional league and by definition must be performance based. If they do nothing different next season how do they improve their position in the table?

Hemel is a fairly small town and is competing for players from a small pool which is London centric.

Clearly the answer as laid out by others is they need to produce their own players.

They have been trying to do that for thirty odd years and have uncovered the odd diamond. Unfortunately their Junior development is not producing players of a calibre that is up to standard.

I have read the statement by the club which states that they will continue to try and nurture their own players and have a development programme and manager to deliver it already in place.

So the long term fix is in place. But, as a professional organisation they need jam today.

A plan that delivers that has to be found NOW.

So criticise all you like but if you have a plan for jam today please contact Hemels Committee. I'm sure they would love your solution.

 

That's a short-termism attitude and if the supporters/stakeholders are fervently against it then it will counter-productive as they'll lose even more revenue so won't be able to support paying these players let alone the transport and hire costs for training up in Dewsbury.

 

Hemel is a relatively small town but it has a wide catchment, and yes it is competing for players like most clubs but this move is self defeating - even more local players will leave. They should look at what South Wales and Gateshead have done and it doesn't happen overnight.

 

I'm pretty sure the remit of them being let into League 1 was not for them to be a team of northern players based in Dewsbury.

[Bearman]

That's a short-termism attitude and if the supporters/stakeholders are fervently against it then it will counter-productive.

1) They need a short term fix

2) At the moment there are not enough supporters/stakeholders.

Therein is the problem at Hemel.

[Spidey]

1) They need a short term fix

2) At the moment there are not enough supporters/stakeholders.

Therein is the problem at Hemel.

So they don't have enough supporters but make a move to alienate most of them. That's not going to end well

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Is Hemel's quandary a symptom of the dis-jointed league structure of the British game? If there was a genuine pyramid structure with promotion and relegation, then Hemel would arguably be able to find an appropriate level. As things stand, they probably deserve to be relegated, but there is no competition for them to go down to, and no team getting promoted to take their place. Instead we have a situation where the club is having to make very divisive decisions in an attempt to become competitive in a division that they are stuck in. I'm not sure what the point of this is, and I can't imagine it's what the RFL had in mind when they admitted them to the pro ranks.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

For a C1 with 16 teams, you can have two "pools" of 8 - the northern pool is of C1s northern teams, the southern pool is of C1s southern teams.

 

Northern pool plays each other twice = 14 games; Northern pool also plays each team in the southern pool once = 8 games = a season total of 22 games.

 

Reverse works for the southern pool:

Southern pool plays each other twice = 14 games; Southern pool also plays each team in the northern pool once = 8 games = a season total of 22 games.

 

WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF THE ABOVE TO THIS THREAD?

 

It means the southern teams don't travel as far, and play each other (the "easier" teams) twice, which gives them a bias in the ladder.

 

So a team like Hemel would do better relatively … thus would encourage more interest, spectators.

 

Hope all that makes sense … it sure makes more sense to me than Hemel's insane plan !!!

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[DoubleD]

Is Hemel's quandary a symptom of the dis-jointed league structure of the British game? If there was a genuine pyramid structure with promotion and relegation, then Hemel would arguably be able to find an appropriate level. As things stand, they probably deserve to be relegated, but there is no competition for them to go down to, and no team getting promoted to take their place. Instead we have a situation where the club is having to make very divisive decisions in an attempt to become competitive in a division that they are stuck in. I'm not sure what the point of this is, and I can't imagine it's what the RFL had in mind when they admitted them to the pro ranks.

With no prospect of relegation, there really is no point in making the move

[MidlandsRugbyLeague]

They already have two development officers in place , both players from the North, university educated and experienced junior coaches who have taken the plunge and moved down to Hemel to live and play

So will they still be in post and how will their day jobs be affected by the driving to Dewsbury for training?

[Pyjamarama]

According to the clubs website, the board are reconvening a meeting on Monday to discuss the 2017 season. So it looks like there may be further developments on this issue.

 

Although I can understand the club wanting to improve results on the field, I do think that there is more to a club than purely looking at results on the field (i.e. what are the clubs values, what does the club stand for, does the club truly represent the community it is based in and so on..). 

 

In the clubs opinion, currently the locally based players are generally below the standard required for League 1.

However, from what I can see, having a squad of players from West Yorkshire is not going to solve this problem. It will just make it worse. It will give local players even less opportunity of gaining League 1 playing experience, & potentially will result in the local community feeling less connected to the club.

 

There are no quick overnight fixes to developing a sport and developing players, only small gradual long term improvements - which will inevitably involve continuing hard work, persistence, and some ups and downs along the way. But I do think they need to take a long term view, and take a lesson from their own history.

In 1980 the above mentioned problem wasn't an issue because the club just didn't exist. Thirty six years later, they are in League 1 with their own stadium, staff etc.., so who knows what the situation will be in another 10,20, 30 years. One thing I feel is certain is that Dewsbury Reserves won't have done much to progress the sport outside the so called heartlands.

[JoneslessBishop]

Rach,

Are those development officers employed by the club. If so, very much good for them. My suggestion, but maybe I didn't state, would be for RFL funded dev officers. That there day job, which attracts down northern pros who play part-time for Hemel, and other expansion League 1 clubs.

That way as opposed to be seeing up in isolation, the clubs act as centers of excellence that can really grow the youth and community game in their region

[DoubleD]

Further developments.........

 

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_23553-hemel-community-insists-we-are-not-dewsbury.html

[Bearman]

It sounds like Hemels gates will drop by thousands if they go through with this.