Hull KR fans

[Bulletproof]

The fine Castleford incurred was not for the chanting but the meagre reaction by the club. You can't stop a fan or two from attempting to misbehave. You can deal with it properly.

Cas fans need to get over this. For one, you're reminding everyone of your absolutely terrible behaviour towards a player, and two, you're whining.

[Wakefield Ram]

If you want a sensible debate, there's little point posting a question on this forum.

It usually only takes 3-4 posts before the first jibe is made and then it goes downhill.

[3owls]

In my opinion the RFL set a precedent by ignoring exactly the same behaviour by Wigan fans in the C.C cup game at Headingley. Thousands of t.v viewers saw coins,plastic glasses, lighters and even a sandwich box rein down on leeds players, yet failed to hold an inquiry never mind punish them. If they are to be consistent no action should be taken against Hull K R. That would obviously be the wrong response but if consistency is what you are looking for these two incidents appear to be very similar therefore should elicit the same non -punishment from the RFL. I am sure if missiles were aimed specifically at a gay rugby league player the response would have been swift and merciless from the authorities. The RFL have created a massive problem for themselves with their draconian punishment meted out to Castleford for what most people would say was a relatively minor offence where nobody was physically harmed, and was the result of the behaviour of a tiny number of fans. Every incident will quite rightly be compared to the Gareth Thomas one because which ever club you support you want to see a sense of fairness, honesty and consistency coming from the authorities. If, as Ullman stated the other day, an inquiry is still ongoing regarding missile throwing at the K.C back in April, i wouldn't think Hull K R or Wigan have anything to worry about for at least 6 or 7 months, it seems the RFL like to draw these things out and make themselves feel important. A swift response is only forthcoming when a homosexual player is involved by the looks of things. As for the original question, i think physical misdemeanours should incur a bigger fine than verbal misdemeanours, that would rightly or wrongly mean a bigger fine for Hull K R compared to Cas if they and their fans are found guilty of any wrongdoing. If verbal abuse is an ongoing problem at any ground then obviously fines would increase to reflect this.

[Padge]

Cas copped it for not responding to homophibic chanting, which, though distasteful, is not directly threatening to the physical well being of a player. The response of the club was almost to condone the chanting, note the word almost.

If idiots decide to throw things at the players then it is not easy stop instantly once the object or objects have been thrown then it is done and stewards would find it hard to immediatly pinpoint the offender. Security cameras don't follow every individual so a bit of previous idiotic behaviour would need to precede an incident for the cameras to be trainedquired, if thare appears to be a lack of crowd control then a fine on an area. I wasn't at the game so I don't know how many KR fans where there so don't know how difficult it would be to pinpoint an individual or individuals concerened.

Why does KR seem to have more than its fair share of idiots, will the true RL supporters name and shame the people concerened, as happened in the infamous Hull supporter incident at Leeds a few years back.

As for the size of the fine, its down to how the RFL judge KR's response, if they make every efort to identify the individuals and if they do then take approriate action then the fine should be less than Cas's fine. If they do nothing then the fine should be higher than the Cas fine.

Should Wigan be fined, tricky one, what action was taken at the time, the only real solution would have been to empty that end of the ground throwing out everybody which would probably have inflamed an already tense situation. That said it happened on their watch and maybe sharper stewarding to keep an eye on what was going on was required and if any evidence shows that to be the case then fair enough hit Wigan with a fine as well, about

[3owls]

Cas copped it for not responding to homophibic chanting, which, though distasteful, is not directly threatening to the physical well being of a player. The response of the club was almost to condone the chanting, note the word almost.

If idiots decide to throw things at the players then it is not easy stop instantly once the object or objects have been thrown then it is done and stewards would find it hard to immediatly pinpoint the offender. Security cameras don't follow every individual so a bit of previous idiotic behaviour would need to precede an incident for the cameras to be trainedquired, if thare appears to be a lack of crowd control then a fine on an area. I wasn't at the game so I don't know how many KR fans where there so don't know how difficult it would be to pinpoint an individual or individuals concerened.

Why does KR seem to have more than its fair share of idiots, will the true RL supporters name and shame the people concerened, as happened in the infamous Hull supporter incident at Leeds a few years back.

As for the size of the fine, its down to how the RFL judge KR's response, if they make every efort to identify the individuals and if they do then take approriate action then the fine should be less than Cas's fine. If they do nothing then the fine should be higher than the Cas fine.

Should Wigan be fined, tricky one, what action was taken at the time, the only real solution would have been to empty that end of the ground throwing out everybody which would probably have inflamed an already tense situation. That said it happened on their watch and maybe sharper stewarding to keep an eye on what was going on was required and if any evidence shows that to be the case then fair enough hit Wigan with a fine as well, about

[StevieM13]

It's been on every 5Live sports bulletin all afternoon, and the same on Radio2.

[HappyDave]

I thought the reaction of the minority of Hull KR fans was an absolute disgrace but when the Sky Sports cameras focussed on them it looked like the Stewards were on it pretty fast. The main recollection I have of it is after they showed the replay of Richards handing it to the ref was the big, ugly woman really aggressively hurling abuse & throwing the 'V's while the stewards were trying to control 20-30 trouble-makers behind the posts.

[Leeds Wire]

It's been on every 5Live sports bulletin all afternoon, and the same on Radio2.

I had the misfortune of spending a long time in the car today and heard the story repeated ad nauseam in the news bulletins of various BBC radio stations. Its only when things like this happen that RL becomes newsworthy, unfortunately.

[Padge]

I've think the level of stewarding is quite poor at most grounds and when a situation arises they're rarely up to the task of handling any problems. I think a police presence inside the ground is the only real deterrent to the idiots that infest our game and i feel we will start to have more problems until this is considered. The self policing notion is a fallacy and clubs need to grasp the nettle now before these type of incidents become the norm.

Self policing isn't a fallacy, I have seen many situations over the years calmed down by other supporters stepping in to calm situations down and drag people who are getting 'emotional' taken to one side.

Self policing doesn't work though when you have people who have gone to a game hell bent on causing trouble because reasoning with dickheads is a none starter.

The many true and good supporters at every club though can play their part in self policing, the advent of the digital camera technology means that there are always a large number of cameras in the vicinity of any incident. Photograph the idiots, carefully, and then send the photographs to the club. On their own the photographs may be of little evidence but with other information it could identify who these idiots are.

All clubs have idiots, some clubs appear to have more than their fair share though.

[StevieM13]

Self policing isn't a fallacy, I have seen many situations over the years calmed down by other supporters stepping in to calm situations down and drag people who are getting 'emotional' taken to one side.

Self policing doesn't work though when you have people who have gone to a game hell bent on causing trouble because reasoning with dickheads is a none starter.

The many true and good supporters at every club though can play their part in self policing, the advent of the digital camera technology means that there are always a large number of cameras in the vicinity of any incident. Photograph the idiots, carefully, and then send the photographs to the club. On their own the photographs may be of little evidence but with other information it could identify who these idiots are.

All clubs have idiots, some clubs appear to have more than their fair share though.

Apparently Cas fans self policed during the chanting. The Cas club put out tannoy announcements immediately and used cameras to identify the perpetrators. Expect a massive fine for Wigan then.

[Old Frightful]

I wasn't at the game so I don't know how many KR fans where there so don't know how difficult it would be to pinpoint an individual or individuals concerened.

Fair play to two or three decent Rovers fans who contacted Blunderside tonight to express their disgust at the incident.

Sadly, from their descriptions, it sounds like there were quite a few mindless perpetrators, as one chap put it "We were right in the middle of them"

Two fans stated they won't be renewing their season passes next year after their experience.

I hope Rovers do make enquiries to discover and ban the offenders. Our great game isn't in such a healthy financial state that we can lose decent fans, possibly forever, due to actions of morons.

Being a Hull fan, obviously I know what it's like to experience $h!t like this and then have fans of other clubs always bring up incidents like the one at Huddersfield ten years since. It hurts.

A suspended fine at least should get Hudgell and co moving in the right direction as regards controlling their fans behaviour. He's only too aware that his club are running at a considerable loss, any fine hanging over their heads will hardly help their money worries.

[Marty Funkhouser]

As Neil Hudgell will no doubt point out in due course , I believe a precedent has already been set for away fans, when the RFL decided that Hull FC were not responsible for their fans invading the Craven Park pitch a couple of seasons ago and took action against the home side (Hull KR) for same...

Any action should therefore be against Wigan/the stadium for failing to protect the players....

Not my view , but the RFL have made their bed and can easily be held to it....

[Kenilworth Tiger]

The fine Castleford incurred was not for the chanting but the meagre reaction by the club. You can't stop a fan or two from attempting to misbehave. You can deal with it properly.

Cas fans need to get over this. For one, you're reminding everyone of your absolutely terrible behaviour towards a player, and two, you're whining.

I'm completely over our fine thanks for your concern. Apologies if it comes over as whining, I trust you fully agree that throwing things at players is OK and I shouldn;t have started the thread?

So what are your thoughts on it or should we just talk about how nailed on Widnes are for a franchise

[bewareshadows]

Not much seems to have been made of this. Are the RFL trying to keep it quiet? I've never seen the players stand on the halfway line for their own safety during a conversion before. Only takes one moron in a thousand or two though. Was anything else other than the lighter thrown on? I heard some coins were too. Hit them with 40k, half suspended for a couple of years. That might sharpen their minds that they may have a problem.

On first reading of this I thought the Hull KR fans had thrown

[Allan Marsden]

On the subject, Hull KR consistently bring the largest number of away supporters to the DW (apart from Saints) and other than a handful of numptys the overwhelming majority of KR supporters were fantastic. I believe about half a dozen objects (coins in the main) were thrown.

However, every club has a tiny minority of numptys just as every village / town or city does. As long as Wigan and KR attempt to identify the numptys and take action then I do not see the need for any fines other than perhaps a suspended one to give fans fair warning that their actions will harm their own club. I think the Castleford fine was OTT.

Players also need to behave sensibly. Leeds players gesturing at Wigan fans and verbally abusing them, Sam T last week throwing the ball at Leeds fans and this week Martin Gleeson doing likewise is something that needs o stop ASAP. Likewise some of the tweeting on twitter by so called professionals needs to be looked at.

[my missus]

i was sat in the east stand at the away end and saw a kr fan being thrown out quite early on, two stewards were escorting him off and he suddenly went for a third one taking a swipe at him but missed, i think this incident happened after a richard goal kick, the fan wanted to keep the ball and someone threw it back on field and he took exception.

there was quite a few coins thrown although i didn't see them thrown i saw them being removed from the pitch by stewards.

it is a shame because the majority of fans and i think there was about 2000 were well behaved and in good voice.

[Ullman]

As Neil Hudgell will no doubt point out in due course , I believe a precedent has already been set for away fans, when the RFL decided that Hull FC were not responsible for their fans invading the Craven Park pitch a couple of seasons ago and took action against the home side (Hull KR) for same...

Any action should therefore be against Wigan/the stadium for failing to protect the players....

Not my view , but the RFL have made their bed and can easily be held to it....

The two incidents don't really bear comparison.

Hull KR were pulled up because their stewards had allowed the Hull fans onto the pitch. It was a serious error of judgement on the part of those responsible, however well intentioned. As the host club Hull KR were naturally held responsible.

As far as I could see, the stewards handled the incident at the DW in an appropriate manner.

The matter is in Hull KR's hand IMO. If they act swiftly to identify and ban those responsible, then I'm sure the RFL will look favourably on them. If they pretend they don't have a problem they could and should be hammered.

[Doolittle]

As someone who attended, I was embarrassed by the behaviour of a section of our support on Friday night. Throwing anything onto the pitch is just not acceptable no matter what the provocation. I hope that the cctv has good images to allow suitable identification of the offenders.

I know that Rovers are co-operating fully with this process, but its fairly hard for me to understand how the club can take any action other than banning individuals after the event. The problem appears to be beer-related. The official club coaches are beer-free, but there is always a multitude of pub-run buses for the big games. There was 28 coaches at Wigan on Friday night and about 24 of them would have been organised privately by various pubs in the area.

I would welcome serious suggestions as to how Rovers can take preventative measures to improve the behaviour next season. Perhaps all us who travel by car should be sorting out the drunken masses - although I suspect I will be recovering in hospital for a while after that one!

[Brigg Rover]

First of all I must add my feelings of anger over the idiots who were throwing things on to the pitch. Hopefully they can be identified and action taken against them.

With regard to size of fine and any other punishment handed out, it is very difficult for me to be objective for obvious reasons.

I will say that after the lighter was thrown then there were only perhaps 1/2 a dozen coins thrown. (Still too many I know). The lighter I believe was thrown at Sam Tomkins, this may have something to do with an incident that occurred at our place a couple of weeks ago, other people then must have thought it was a good idea to throw something.

I think the Wigan players were very sensible in doing what they did as this then removed themselves from harm and also stopped the incident from escalating.

From my position, which was to the left of the posts from my point of view, all the objects that were thrown came from just behind the posts. I must admit I did not see the stewards do a great deal, but I was trying to watch the game.

As has been stated by other posters, many games have had incidents were things have been thrown onto the pitch, it does appear to be a problem that is increasing and also some grounds lend themselves to this more than others. One thing that I think could have been done differently would have been to have banned any beer in the seats (as it was at the KC) this just keeps a bit of a lid on the drinking of a few of the nutters.

[3owls]

. One thing that I think could have been done differently would have been to have banned any beer in the seats (as it was at the KC) this just keeps a bit of a lid on the drinking of a few of the nutters.

I think you are punishing the majority because of a tiny minority when you take these steps. Stiff penalties are undoubtebly the ultimate deterrent, if they face six months in clink they simply wouldn't throw things on the pitch.

[JohnM]

They should ban beer at the DW anyway. The constant trail of people to and from the bar and to and from the toilets throughout the game is so annoying and irritating.

as for the incident: investigate, identify, sanction the individuals, work with the clubs to minimise risk of repetition, but no sledgehammer, no martyrs.

An entirely different situation to Cas, who probably still don't get what they did wrong.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

An entirely different situation to Cas, who probably still don't get what they did wrong.

Very very patronising

[JohnM]

and that's when I'm NOT trying.

So what is wrong with the approach I suggested?

[3owls]

For one, you're reminding everyone of your absolutely terrible behaviour towards a player, and two, you're whining.

A bit like that little sh*t Tomkins whining on in the paper about banning fans for life now he's had a couple of coins thrown at him. Funny how his mouth was zipped shut when the wigan tramps were throwing all and su ndry on the pitch at headingley back in May. A bit like most Wiganers, short memories and only one eye.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

and that's when I'm NOT trying.

So what is wrong with the approach I suggested?