The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Saintslass]

The meat will be put on the bones next month.  The important thing about today is that the principle has been passed, the detail will still require negotiation.

That is what is so ridiculous about this and why I am bemused.  People are agreeing on a principle without any of the fundamentals actually being decided.  Fundamentals such as finance, impact upon the Championships, assessment of fan engagement (crucial, I should imagine), impact upon TV and sponsorship agreements (across the leagues, not just Superleague), player health and welfare, etc, etc.  This principle has been pushed singlemindedly by Nigel Wood and accepted by most Superleague chairmen but those two factors have occurred without anyone knowing how the whole sport is going to be impacted.

 

I doubt any other business anywhere in the world would so radically restructure itself without first ascertaining all of that.

[John Rhino]

It was proposed but opposed by the majority of fans. It would have passed but two clubs, (St Mirren and Ross County from memory), voted against and so it failed. The only place it's been tried is Switzerland who had it for about 10 years - dropping it because attendances for the middle teams hit rock bottom.

Thanks. I guess the middle teams are the ones who will suffer most. Never get relegated but never good enough to play the big boys at seasons end. Can't see that lasting 10 years though.

[RLDave]

Here is Twitters take on todays developments.

There will be NO new Rugby League fans ever again because of the new structure (League freak said that, does that guy ever say anything positive about our game?)

Rugby League will be bankrupt within a few years.

The RFL are only in it for themselves. And sit around eating biscuits all day.

It's going to be a disaster.

The new structure is purely a distraction to stop people talking about clubs in financial difficulty.

It is total madness and the RFL "better have a bloody good reason"

Nobody gets the new structure (I doubt the majority have even read about it)

Rugby League is now dead

Richie Mathers thinks there should surely be change on a day when major change has been announced.

It's quite disheartening looking through twitter to be honest. The full details of the restructure have yet to be announced and already alot of fans have completely written the idea off. One person even tweeted he has lost interest in Super League purely because of this decision and will only watch the NRL in future (although I suspect he is being a bit of a drama queen). But what is it about Rugby League that makes fans turn against it so often? There is barely a bit of RL news these days that isn't met with a huge amount of negetivity by fans. Personally I think it's going to be very interesting, especially seeing the top championship clubs playing against Super League clubs to fight for a place in the next seasons SL. Within those games I think there will be just as much intensity as those fighting for a place at Old Trafford.

I do wonder how sponsorship will work across the leagues with them eventually coming together in a way. But I dont think there will be any trouble getting TV coverage. If anything, I think the new format will encourage multi-channel coverage.

[redjonn]

I can't understand why people keep saying the top 8 clubs will pull away and will never change. Yet I have gone back to 2007 and we have never had the same teams finish in the top 8 year on year, so what makes people think that it's always going to be the same top 8 from now when facts tell you it won't

 

Depends upon funding plans for teams that are in the bottom 4 SL and top 4 championship tier of 8 and whether fan base disintegrates for the bottom 4 of SL when playing in the second tier and how much clubs will charge for lower level fixtures.

 

I for one would expect to pay less when my club goes into the lower tier of 8 games as the level of teams playing are obviously poorer.  Also how will it impact their commercial potential for those teams that drop down a level, i.e sponsorship and hospitality which are one of the main revenues. on the other hand it may improve top 4 championship clubs commercial potential.

 

Time will tell, but the many risks have been outlined in this discussion thread. I assume the clubs and RFL think the risks are worth it as they believe it will improve the sport.

Edited January 17, 2014 by redjonn

[Lobbygobbler]

I hope you are right. I think not though since the deck is totally stacked against the championship clubs and the elite will have their self contained top tier.

1 or 2 up p and r would have given the championship teams a better chance.

Disagree about 1 up/down. We had it prior to licensing and it did not allow sufficient exchange or chance for promotion. 2 up/down would have been okay. However this new system is quite similar really yet offering the potential for greater refreshent and jeopardy. The majority of the season is the 2x12 and only the last quarter-third is 3x8. As many a four teams in the second tier could find themselves in SL the year after. That prospect is mouthwatering. I doubt that will happen but the fact that it could adds excitement. Even if only one club from tier 2 can get up per year to SL then it will be successful.

Bring it on!

[Marty Funkhouser]

Sorry, yes all clubs voted the reduction, it doesn't mean all clubs were in favour of the other restructure.

7-6 with an abstention apparently , think the fall out will be wide spread...

[GeordieSaint]

7-6 with an abstention apparently , think the fall out will be wide spread...

 

Where did you hear that?

[Ponterover]

7-6 with an abstention apparently , think the fall out will be wide spread...

 

I would have thought that such a change would require more than a simple majority.

 

Do you have a source?

[Saintslass]

It's quite disheartening looking through twitter to be honest. The full details of the restructure have yet to be announced and already alot of fans have completely written the idea off. .

I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but the reason I have written it off is precisely because the full details have yet to be announced, like how the bloody thing is going to be financed for a start off.  The RFL and clubs have gone about this backassward.  Firstly they should have sorted out all the detail and THEN told everyone about it and THEN sought out the feelings of fans and players and THEN voted on it.

[Saintslass]

I would have thought that such a change would require more than a simple majority.

 

Do you have a source?

So long as there is a quorum then I thought that any decision made by the Superleague only ever required a simple majority vote?

[DAZROVER1985]

I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but the reason I have written it off is precisely because the full details have yet to be announced, like how the bloody thing is going to be financed for a start off. The RFL and clubs have gone about this backassward. Firstly they should have sorted out all the detail and THEN told everyone about it and THEN sought out the feelings of fans and players and THEN voted on it.

haven't the rfl and clubs been discussing this for months though surely they haven't just written it down on the back of a cig packet

[keighley]

Disagree about 1 up/down. We had it prior to licensing and it did not allow sufficient exchange or chance for promotion. 2 up/down would have been okay. However this new system is quite similar really yet offering the potential for greater refreshent and jeopardy. The majority of the season is the 2x12 and only the last quarter-third is 3x8. As many a four teams in the second tier could find themselves in SL the year after. That prospect is mouthwatering. I doubt that will happen but the fact that it could adds excitement. Even if only one club from tier 2 can get up per year to SL then it will be successful.

Bring it on!

In theory, you are right. In theory the challenge cup final could be Wigan St Patricks v Keighley Albion but it will never happen.

I think he first season the attendnaces at the Cc v SL playoffs will be very good but as time goes by and very very few CC teams makes it to SL, interest will drop off dramatically.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but it looks like a no win situation for the CC clubs to me. Under straight p and r a CC team would have been promoted and a SL team relegated. Under this system I don't think any promotion or relegation will actually occur or, if it does, only once every five years or so.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I would have thought that such a change would require more than a simple majority.

Do you have a source?

Pretty sure I read it had to have at least 10-4 in favour to be passed.

[DAZROVER1985]

In theory, you are right. In theory the challenge cup final could be Wigan St Patricks v Keighley Albion but it will never happen.

I think he first season the attendnaces at the Cc v SL playoffs will be very good but as time goes by and very very few CC teams makes it to SL, interest will drop off dramatically.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but it looks like a no win situation for the CC clubs to me. Under straight p and r a CC team would have been promoted and a SL team relegated. Under this system I don't think any promotion or relegation will actually occur or, if it does, only once every five years or so.

so you really think with 4 chances of promotion every season it will only happen once every 5 years. A 1 in 20 chance you would think

[Ponterover]

Tell you what, the championship before the split is going to be one hell of a competition. Before the split we'll have:

 

Ex SL

Ex SL

Sheffield

Featherstone

Halifax

Leigh

Doncaster

Batley

North Wales

Barrow

Dewsbury

Keighley

 

That looks like a bloody good competition to me, with apologies to the fans of clubs I have assumed will be in C1 next year.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Ponterover

[Ponterover]

In theory, you are right. In theory the challenge cup final could be Wigan St Patricks v Keighley Albion but it will never happen.

I think he first season the attendnaces at the Cc v SL playoffs will be very good but as time goes by and very very few CC teams makes it to SL, interest will drop off dramatically.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but it looks like a no win situation for the CC clubs to me. Under straight p and r a CC team would have been promoted and a SL team relegated. Under this system I don't think any promotion or relegation will actually occur or, if it does, only once every five years or so.

 

Of course there is no guarantee that anyone will be promoted, but don't forget that as well as the championship's current "big 4", there will also be two other big players in the ex SL clubs.

 

I would be amazed if at least one wasn't promoted, on average.

[Keith T]

Assuming all the present clubs survive to 2015 and Toulouse are accepted in -that will leave 14 teams in the championship.If Leicester and Coventry are ready for that level the then 16 teams could be split into a northern and southern section.That would make more sense with travelling times and costs at that level and at the same time give a national feel.

It would have been just the same with 2 x 12 and 1 up and down, without the 3 x 8's nonsense.

[Methven Hornet]

It was proposed but opposed by the majority of fans.  It would have passed but two clubs, (St Mirren and Ross County from memory), voted against and so it failed.  The only place it's been tried is Switzerland who had it for about 10 years - dropping it because attendances for the middle teams hit rock bottom.

 

St Mirren and Ross County - and the rumours flying around at the time was that a certain club fae Govan - who were dead against the change - 'persuaded' the two to vote against.

And, talking about a certain club fae Govan  “There is no threat of Administration II. Categorically, there is no threat of Administration II.”

[Saintslass]

haven't the rfl and clubs been discussing this for months though surely they haven't just written it down on the back of a cig packet

Well, according to League 13 for example at the time of the last vote the players didn't know how the new structure was going to be financed, and no finance details have been included in any of the statements made by the RFL at any time. 

[Ponterover]

Pretty sure I read it had to have at least 10-4 in favour to be passed.

 

I thought I'd read that too

[Ponterover]

Well, according to League 13 for example at the time of the last vote the players didn't know how the new structure was going to be financed, and no finance details have been included in any of the statements made by the RFL at any time. 

 

Why would the players know what the finances would be.  They're just employess.  I don't discuss my company's finances with my employees.

 

The RFL have published proposals on the distribution of funds, have you read the document released after Leneghan's walkout?

[Ian (Pencil) Elliott]

Trying to give up the beer for a few months but I think I'll have a few to celebrate tonight.  Roll on 2015, happy days are here again   

[RLDave]

Tell you what, the championship before the split is going to be one hell of a competition. Before the split we'll have:

Ex SL

Ex SL

Sheffield

Featherstone

Halifax

Leigh

Doncaster

Batley

North Wales

Barrow

Dewsbury

Keighley

That looks like a bloody good competition to me, with apologies to the fans of clubs I have assumed will be in C1 next year.

Looks great. Then mix the top teams up with the bottom of SL and you have an interesting and hopefully very entertaining and intense competition of its own.

[Saintslass]

 

The RFL have published proposals on the distribution of funds, have you read the document released after Leneghan's walkout?

Proposals!  What good are proposals at this stage?  The finance should have been sorted, secured, defined, set in stone.  What if the finances aren't there once the nitty gritty is delved into?  How dumb will everyone look if there has to be another vote because the sport can't actually viably finance this structure?  And potentially that could happen because all there is are proposals, and then pretty vague ones at that. 

 

Incidentally, I know HOW the business I work for is financed.  In fact, I don't think I have ever worked in a place and NOT known how that business is financed.  What I don't know is the actual numbers, at least not when I have been working in the private sector.  I am sure I could have found out if the company was big enough but I never bothered.  Public sector finances have to be more transparent.

[Keith T]

Tell you what, the championship before the split is going to be one hell of a competition. Before the split we'll have:

 

Ex SL

Ex SL

Sheffield

Featherstone

Halifax

Leigh

Doncaster

Batley

North Wales

Barrow

Dewsbury

Keighley

 

That looks like a bloody good competition to me, with apologies to the fans of clubs I have assumed will be in C1 next year.

 

So have you promoted or relegated Workington Town and Whitehaven?