The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Cardiff Cymru]

Just to be clear, Sheffield (formed 1984) are "traditional" and Toulouse (formed 1937) are not?

Does it make you laugh that people think Featherstone could attract a several thousands just because they got over 4,000 for cup game against Cas and Wigan a couple of years ago? Do their Championship attendances also prove that not the case?

Is it really that hard for you to believe that teams, including Toulouse and Featherstone, would attract larger attendances in a higher division or league than a lower one?

 

Does that mean Hemel are more traditional than Sheffield as they're four years older? 

 

Or does "traditional" mean "Sheffield and further north but south of Gateshead?"

Edited July 11, 2013 by Cardiff Cymru

[The Future is League]

So if Toulouse come in three to be relegated?

I'd delay Toulouse by a couple of years. Three clubs is too many to chuck out at once IMO

I suppose we are looking at London, Widnes, and one of the Hull clubs to be releagted.

[Gruff]

The FAQ's are here;

 

http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_the_rfl/policyreviewfaqs

 

Main points are;

 

 - RFL to decide who will make up the top 12 initially.

 - Relegated teams to lower divisions will receive parachute payments

 - Toulouse more than likely will be in if they bring a broadcaster to the table

 - The end of season split will most likely happen - i.e. 3x8, with SL clubs getting a bye into the CC 5th round

 - Super league clubs will get no more tv money than they do now

 - Significant increase in the amount of money given to the Championship clubs through TV income

 - Number of matches increases to minimal of 30

 - Final playoffs a quick 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd, then final

[Northern Sol]

London and one of Wakey / Cas to begin with.

[nadera78]

The FAQ's are here;

 

http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_the_rfl/policyreviewfaqs

 

Main points are;

 

 - RFL to decide who will make up the top 12 initially.

 - Relegated teams to lower divisions will receive parachute payments

 - Toulouse more than likely will be in if they bring a broadcaster to the table

 - The end of season split will most likely happen - i.e. 3x8, with SL clubs getting a bye into the CC 5th round

 - Super league clubs will get no more tv money than they do now

 - Significant increase in the amount of money given to the Championship clubs through TV income

 - Number of matches increases to minimal of 30

 - Final playoffs a quick 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd, then final

So instead of focussing our finite resources on a genuinely elite competition (which would bring other benefits re internationals, etc) we're going to dilute them further by paying money into the second tier? Genius.

[Gruff]

Based on the info in the FAQ's I wouldn't be surprised if;

 

 - London stay in

 - Toulouse get a spot if this will get a foreign TV contract

 - 3 of Widnes, Hull KR, Wakey, Cas get relegated initially - which they agree to depending on size of parachute payments

[Northern Sol]

The FAQ's are here;

 

http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_the_rfl/policyreviewfaqs

 

Main points are;

 

 - RFL to decide who will make up the top 12 initially.

 - Relegated teams to lower divisions will receive parachute payments

 - Toulouse more than likely will be in if they bring a broadcaster to the table

 - The end of season split will most likely happen - i.e. 3x8, with SL clubs getting a bye into the CC 5th round

 - Super league clubs will get no more tv money than they do now

 - Significant increase in the amount of money given to the Championship clubs through TV income

 - Number of matches increases to minimal of 30

 - Final playoffs a quick 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd, then final

Does not look good for Toulouse. They seem out.

[tuutaisrambo]

The FAQ's are here;

 

http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_the_rfl/policyreviewfaqs

 

Main points are;

 

 - RFL to decide who will make up the top 12 initially.

 - Relegated teams to lower divisions will receive parachute payments

 - Toulouse more than likely will be in if they bring a broadcaster to the table

 - The end of season split will most likely happen - i.e. 3x8, with SL clubs getting a bye into the CC 5th round

 - Super league clubs will get no more tv money than they do now

 - Significant increase in the amount of money given to the Championship clubs through TV income

 - Number of matches increases to minimal of 30

 - Final playoffs a quick 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd, then final

This should be decided on who finishes where in 2014.........apart from that it all sounds good.

[Gruff]

So instead of focussing our finite resources on a genuinely elite competition (which would bring other benefits re internationals, etc) we're going to dilute them further by paying money into the second tier? Genius.

 I think the points are the clubs get more income through increased home fixtures - two more each - and the championship clubs get more money helping to develop a fully pro second tier.

 

In addition, the KPMG report would suggest they believe that having this competitive element will increase TV monies, leading to greater payments in the future.  

[Gruff]

Does not look good for Toulouse. They seem out.

All depends on them bringing a TV Contract by 2015.  Could still be a real possibility.

[the phoenix]

So for those that think this is a good idea, answer these questions:

 

a) So a team has an injury crisis (i.e. like Saints atm) and finish in the relegation spots as a result. Is it fair that that club essentially has to make all its staff redundant and lose all its players in order to go to a semi-pro team? Then if it survives and gets promoted again, it has to re-build all those structures and systems again from scratch, and recruit an entire new team?

 

When a team is promoted, it will essentially recruit the players from the relegated team, and include 10-12 reserve-grade standard Australians as it is 'necessary for survival'. So does RL development go out the window for that club?

 

c) The same thing for those near the bottom, none will invest and give young players a chance (which they do now under licensing), and will recruit foreign imports en masse instead. So where does England's young players come from then in future? The game can't rely on 2-3 clubs to develop it's talent.

 

d) What happens when Catalans get relegated, and subsequently revert to the semi-pro French RL? Is that the end of trying to promote the French game?

 

e) What happens to investors (like Dr. Koukash, Andrew Glover etc.) once their team is relegated? They will walk away from the game and the club will go out of business?

 

f) What happens when Super League consists entirely of teams from small northern towns like Featherstone, Keighley, Halifax, Leigh etc. playing in front of 3,000 fans? How much will our TV rights be worth?

 

I'd like to see the pro-P&R fans come up with constructive answers to this. The fact is, P&R returning is the worst thing that can happen to RL. It will be the death of the game.

A - so be it , thats the nature of sport , but with the umberella payments they should cope as there is no initial knee jerk of losing playing or backroom staff 

saints have had a bad year but still likely to finish top 8 anyway

B - cant see that happening , sure they will change some staff but that happens now as teams make signings , the youth development system will more than likely be stronger as players coming through have a glimmer of the big time with local clubs as oppossed to having to move to other clubs

C - why does everyone assume that investors wont come salford have koukash despite the fact they are struggling - fev got feisal despite being in the championship , crowds will rise when it becomes 2 teir as the games will have a lot more meaning, that will be attractive to big and small investors alike

D  why should catalans get relegated ? they are a strong side and you couldent see them dropping out of the top 8 in the foreseeable future and even if the RL go with direct p and r that wont affect them unless the wheels come off 

E koukash is under no illusion of what he is putting his money into , why assume he will walk if salford are relegated , has he alluded to this ? . its only my opinion of course but i think new investors big or small will outweigh the ones that walk away (assuming the worse happens and they do)

f How is the S/L going to be contested by these teams , hardly anything changes for the top 8 and we are then going to faced with the bottom 6 competing with the top 2 in championship competing to try and get up there with them 

 

what a lot on here need to realise is that the current system isnt working and in need of change - the RFL realise that and more importantly so do the current S/L sides thats why the proposals have come forward and generally been accepted 

ok there are a lot of sticking points which need resolving but we are going down this route to try and take the game forward 

doesent sit well with some some of the keyboard mafia on here but they need to see its happening 

Edited July 11, 2013 by the phoenix

[Northern Sol]

All depends on them bringing a TV Contract by 2015.  Could still be a real possibility.

It's not impossible but doesn't seem likely.

[goldcoaster]

This should be decided on who finishes where in 2014.........apart from that it all sounds good.

 

Sounds good for who? Featherstone? It's not good for anybody else.

[Northern Sol]

Sounds good for who? Featherstone? It's not good for anybody else.

Then why would other clubs agree to it?

[Lobbygobbler]

Sounds good for who? Featherstone? It's not good for anybody else.

Yes it is - all other non SL clubs.

Why not stick to worrying about the next balls up by the NRL

[gingerjon]

This should be decided on who finishes where in 2014.........apart from that it all sounds good.

 

Exactly.  So SL 2015 will consist of 12 teams who competed in SL in 2014.  Or 11 if Toulouse can get a TV contract.

 

The Championship clubs must be giddy with excitement.

[Ackroman]

I like the idea of on-field success being an important factor instead of the depth of tread on the tyres of your BMW.

[tuutaisrambo]

Sounds good for who? Featherstone? It's not good for anybody else.

Fev aren't in Super league.........if everyone knows league position will determine who drops out at the end of SL 2014 it will make that season more exciting.   If the RFL just choose who they want then it won't be.

[the phoenix]

tuutaisrambo, on 11 Jul 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

This should be decided on who finishes where in 2014.........apart from that it all sounds good.

 

Sounds good for who? Featherstone? It's not good for anybody else.

 

 

Why does it sound good for featherstone ? next season there are still the same 14 S/L teams who should go down to 12 with the bottom 2 losing out - featherstone arent involved 

[the phoenix]

Re phoenix. This is not taking the game forward whatsoever. It's about making a few people feel better for a short while. Then when things don't go their way they will then vocally deride the RFL.

in your opinion ! i disagree and it seems that the RFL and S/L teams do as well 

[tuutaisrambo]

Exactly.  So SL 2015 will consist of 12 teams who competed in SL in 2014.  Or 11 if Toulouse can get a TV contract.

 

The Championship clubs must be giddy with excitement.

Well it won't be a closed shop anymore and we'll get to play better teams so yeah we will.

[Lobbygobbler]

What were the TV rights for CC worth prior to the introduction of licencing? Nothing, that's what. In fact you couldn't give them away. Some broadcasters wanted paying to show them.

To be fair, the rights for the lower tiers were always tied in with the SL contract, so the RFL werent allowed to give them away. Sky did start showing the lower tier games just before licensing came in but they then lost interest after licensing hence why it was given away. The good thing now is that the CC and CC1 is not part of the SL contract, so it is up to everyone to try and get sone decent tv rights. I will certainly be renewing both sky sports and premier once P&R returns.

[the phoenix]

definetely feel that there should be tranceparancy regarding how the initial 12 teams are decided 

i dont think its fair that london or whoever are given impunity and it would be a scandal if toulouse were brought in at the expense of a further 3rd current S/L team losing its place 
if the powers that be general beleive toulouse`s inclusion and possible tv money they may bring, would be of benefit then fine but they should be starting in the future league 2

[Father Ted]

Will any of the clubs hoping to be promoted be any better than those being relegated?

Looking at the Championship -

Sheffield don't get the crowds to sustain a SL club.

Halifax couldn't cut it last time, their final season in SL they won 1 game then got the two points deducted for a salary cap overspend.

Leigh, they almost went bust not long ago after the sad death of Arthur Thomas.

Fev, is not a large enough conurbation to sustain a SL club.

IMO none of the above are worth a place in SL.

Catalans played a game in Toulouse v HKR and got over 14500 in. That's around 14k local Toulouse supporters and Toulouse weren't even playing!

Toulouse everytime over the current Championship clubs.

The Intl last year in Avignon had 16k at the game. The South of France is our best development area at present. That's where we should be looking to expand.

[tuutaisrambo]

definetely feel that there should be tranceparancy regarding how the initial 12 teams are decided 

i dont think its fair that london or whoever are given impunity and it would be a scandal if toulouse were brought in at the expense of a further 3rd current S/L team losing its place 

if the powers that be general beleive toulouse`s inclusion and possible tv money they may bring, would be of benefit then fine but they should be starting in the future league 2

Yep agree completely........at the very least if Toulouse are bringing in a significant deal and HAVE to be in SL this should be announce prior to the start of 2014 so everyone knows where they need to aim for.