15 Aug: Middle 8 - Wakefield Trinity Wildcats v Bradford Bulls KO 3pm (TV)

[Blind side johnny]

I don't think we'll beat any Super League teams anywhere on today's showing, do you?

 

 

No. Bradford never looked like SL material when I have watched them this season. In fact Halifax look much more the part, and they will fall well short too. Leigh are the only ones with a shout and it will be mighty difficult for them - big fish in a shallow pool get found out eventually.

[weloveyouwakefield2]

Relieved! Great to see Tim smith back on form and thought our pack was awesome

[GIANTSTRIDES]

I think that's the first time I've seen Bradford this season, What a disappointment against the bottom club in the regular season, I'm sure they can play better than that but the time is now.

 

When I've seen Leigh they have looked street's ahead of that, Hope there's better to come in the middle eight's.

[Konkrete]

Relieved! Great to see Tim smith back on form and thought our pack was awesome

Indeed. You were superb throughout.

[overtheborder]

Anyone know why this was a home game for Wakey? Shouldnt the top two in the championship have played the bottom two in SL at home?

I.don't think it works like that mate, it seems to be more about having 4 home games rather than who it is you actually play at home, although I can't remember how the fixtures were put together off the top of my head. It might be interesting to reset the points to 0 (talking top 8s now) and give the top team 7 homes, 8th team 7 aways for instance but that's a different debate, and anyway wouldn't work in the middle 8s.

From what I saw of the game.Bradford didn't look like the team I thought they would but I'm sure they can do better.

[Konkrete]

I'm happily tucked away in my normal spot in the North stand thank you.

Is it a Bradford fan being racist?

Wakey song... Sung twice and loudly.

You're just a town full of p.kis

You're just a town full of p.kis

Town full of p...............kis

You're just a town full of p.kis

If you didn't hear it then you didn't hear it but plenty did.

[tim2]

Indeed. You were superb throughout.

 

I felt Wakey dropped off a bit in the middle of the game after a faultless first 30 mins.

 

Next week will be very interesting.

[Wolford6]

We got what we deserved ... sweet #### knack all.

[snapski]

I.don't think it works like that mate, it seems to be more about having 4 home games rather than who it is you actually play at home, although I can't remember how the fixtures were put together off the top of my head. It might be interesting to reset the points to 0 (talking top 8s now) and give the top team 7 homes, 8th team 7 aways for instance but that's a different debate, and anyway wouldn't work in the middle 8s.

From what I saw of the game.Bradford didn't look like the team I thought they would but I'm sure they can do better.

By far the worst idea I've ever read on here, and that's saying something

[JohnM]

We got what we deserved ... sweet #### knack all.

Fear not. I was at the Leeds/Wigan Offiah ten tris game, yet look at Leeds now. The is hope for Northern.

[overtheborder]

By far the worst idea I've ever read on here, and that's saying something

Whats so bad about it? I'm not proposing the change seriously but I'm not sure just dismissing an idea without giving a reason encourages a constructive debate. At least it would give teams an incentive to finish top while keeping the top 8 competitive from the split.

I don't think it's the solution (and I don't dislike the current format tbh, just responding to Lobbygobbler's post that's all), but just giving an example of why an idea, any idea in life within reason, is at least worth thinking about.

[damp squib]

Wakey song... Sung twice and loudly.

Not quoting the lyrics but what an absolute disgrace. Shameful.

[Viking Warrior]

i was hoping for a much better game from the bulls, they were terrible for the vast majority of the game and it will be another year in the championship for them

[Loiner]

Big reality check for Bradford. Nowhere near SL standard and they have hardly set the Championship on fire. Wakefielkd are not a great team but they look way too good for Bradford who just seemed to have given up.

And just think there coach is the new assistant England coach all hope is lost.

[Loiner]

James Lowes...a fine coach, a players coach. it seems

PMSL at that. All he wants is a suit with big baggy trousers some big shoes and a red nose.

[Stan Doffarf]

PMSL at that. All he wants is a suit with big baggy trousers some big shoes and a red nose.

 

Lowes is a shocking coach. His record as a coach in Super League is embarrassing, and he wasn't even working in RL when appointed to the Bradford job. Maybe there's a message in that. His post match press conferences are cringeworthy, petulant, sulky, defensive. As a figurehead for the club he is truly awful. His squad management is a joke.

 

When I watch him I try to imagine what it would be like to be managed by somebody like that. No wonder the players often look disinterested and demotivated.

 

Bulls need to find a new coach for next season, because this season is effectively over. Is Brian Noble doing anything next year?

[Amber Avenger]

Lowes is a shocking coach. His record as a coach in Super League is embarrassing, and he wasn't even working in RL when appointed to the Bradford job. Maybe there's a message in that. His post match press conferences are cringeworthy, petulant, sulky, defensive. As a figurehead for the club he is truly awful. His squad management is a joke.

When I watch him I try to imagine what it would be like to be managed by somebody like that. No wonder the players often look disinterested and demotivated.

Bulls need to find a new coach for next season, because this season is effectively over. Is Brian Noble doing anything next year?

Someone - either on here or RLFans - said Smith out-coached Lowes yesterday and it's really hard to disagree with that. Regardless of what you think of the gap in quality between SL and the Champ, the squad Bradford had out yesterday was far better than they showed. Lowes described it as a bad day at the office or some such. So how many of those is that this year then Jimmy - at least 10.

Didn't agree with his appointment, it was an emotional one based on his history as a player and not a coach. I've been confused at some of his decisions this season but written it off as "Oh well it might come off in the 8s". Well yesterday that bit us on the backside big time. To me there is nothing in his coaching history or this season that convinces me he can take us up now or in 2016. In my book Lowes has 5 games to save his job because in the very likely scenario we aren't in Super League in 2016 he should not be in charge.

[Wolford6]

I certainly don't rate James Lowes as a coach, but Karl Harrison has a very good record as a coach.

 

It wasn't those two who were missing tackles and failing to feed our most potent focus of attack ... Adrian Purtell and Danny Williams on the left flank ... or kicked anything for Omari Caro to hunt down on the other flank.

 

Tim Smith was a class apart yesterday; he totally embarrassed our halfbacks.

 

My ratings (from what I saw when I didn't have my head in my hands):

 

Clare 3,

Williams 5,

Purtell 7,

Blythe 4,

Caro 5,

Gaskell N/A,

Addy 4,

Clough 5,

O'Brien 6,

Sidlow 6,

Olbison 5,

Ferguson 5,

Pitts 4,

M. Ryan 5,

Lauaki 7,

Crossley 7,

Siejka 3

[Amber Avenger]

I certainly don't rate James Lowes as a coach, but Karl Harrison has a very good record as a coach.

It wasn't those two who were missing tackles and failing to feed our most potent focus of attack ... Adrian Purtell and Danny Williams on the left flank ... or kicked anything for Omari Caro to hunt down on the other flank.

Karl Harrison was a good assistant before at the Bulls under a far better coach than we have now. His record after that has been mixed to say the least. I'm sure Halifax fans are far happier he's at the Bulls currently.

They certainly weren't out there missing tackles etc, but haven't they seen the same mistakes against Fev, Sheffield, Fax et al and done little to rectify them?

Do you think if we finish 6th in the 8 they've done enough to warrant a second crack at promotion? Genuinely, what are the highlights that show our potential this year? That we wopped Fev once in the second game? We have performed ok in games against Leigh and Hull KR but ultimately never gotten the win. We never seem to kick on and thread more than two performances together.

[Wolford6]

Do you think if we finish 6th in the 8 they've done enough to warrant a second crack at promotion?

 

I wasn't a fan of James Lowes' appointment, but I am a fan of honouring contracts. So I think they should be given another season. However, we have to have someone with perspective overseeing the signing of players.

We've a mountain of props, fullbacks and wingers but only one quality halfback ... Lee Gaskell ... and we'll be lucky to hang on to him.

[Konkrete]

Jeez...

I don't even know where to start with all that. I'll have a go tomorrow with a bit more depth. Two points though....

1. Players have come to the club BECAUSE of Lowes not in spite of him

2. Siejka is a terrible player, but Jimmy did sign a very good half back in GOB

C. Lowes is as desperate as anyone to get us back up and it's his responsibility, that's why it hits him so hard

[Saint Toppy]

I certainly don't rate James Lowes as a coach,

My ratings (from what I saw when I didn't have my head in my hands):

 

Clare 3,

Williams 5,

Purtell 7,

Blythe 4,

Caro 5,

Gaskell N/A,

Addy 4,

Clough 5,

O'Brien 6,

Sidlow 6,

Olbison 5,

Ferguson 5,

Pitts 4,

M. Ryan 5,

Lauaki 7,

Crossley 7,

Siejka 3

Why did you not give Gaskell a rating ? okay he didn't last long but before he went off he was awful. Particularly liked his impression of a statue for Wakey's 1st try.

 

As for Lowes, god knows how he got appointed as assistant England coach. Him & McBanana really do look like the chuckle brothers 

[Amber Avenger]

Jeez...

I don't even know where to start with all that. I'll have a go tomorrow with a bit more depth. Two points though....

1. Players have come to the club BECAUSE of Lowes not in spite of him

2. Siejka is a terrible player, but Jimmy did sign a very good half back in GOB

C. Lowes is as desperate as anyone to get us back up and it's his responsibility, that's why it hits him so hard

 

On signing players - to me that doesn't hold a great amount of sway. I've said before recruitment for this season has generally been poor considering our aspirations - our best performers in 99% of cases were with the club in one form or another in 2014. That said we've done well to keep a lot of them - a great effort from the whole club including Lowes.

 

I'm not doubting he has passion to get us up (so do tons of people)- I have serious doubts about how effectively he can channel it.

 

Genuinely looking forward to what you have to say on this - and I'd just like to say I'm not "Lowes out at all costs, woe is me", but I'm interested to see what potential you (or anyone) sees there, because currently my glass is very half empty.

[Konkrete]

Ok, here's where I'm at at the moment.

 

Lowes

First of all Lowes.  The bloke is an absolute legend at Odsal, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that, and whilst sentimentality mustn’t get in the way of taking the club/business forward what it should do is give you breathing space, more time than A N Other coach, and in particular goodwill and patience from the fans.  I see the issues like you guys do, but he's got all the above from me.

 

Some complain that he’s surly and miserable at the press conferences, well so what.  We got tonked on Saturday and he came out and took it for the club and the players.  The players will appreciate that.  Shame Brian Smith didn’t manage the same grace the week before.

 

Our style of rugby is good.  It’s not sling it anywhere willy nilly and it’s not batten down the hatches and try to win a low scoring game.  He’s got the balance about right for me.  I also like his one hooker policy if I’m honest.

 

Players

In terms of player recruitment then there are number of factors to mention here.  First is the half back situation.  We know about GOB and Siejka, and we know that Ferres was looking for one - but where do you find one that you want and is willing to come?  Also, lets' not forget the declared long term philosophy of the club.  We will re-build the club from the ground up and around our own players.  What that means in reality is that we will allow our players to play even though there may be better options available.  This will take longer but it’s better that way.  Who else has been a bad signing given the starting point - and let's not forget the turmoil the club was in when Lowes arrived?  Many many players have publically stated that they chose our club because of Lowes - I don't hear a lot of that elsewhere.  Aside from Siejka the players that took the park on Saturday were ALL Super League quality.  So overall recruitment has been good in my opinion.

 

We might lose Gaskell if we don’t go up.  Fax might lose Marshall and Leigh might lose their stars.  Players come and go.  Gaskell is a terrific player, but only when on the field.

 

Saturday

Who did we play on Saturday, because I don't know?  We certainly didn't play the bottom team in SL.  We played a team with 11 new players and a Grand Master coach.  How the hell is Lowes supposed to out coach Brian Smith?  700+ games under his belt against a young coach trying to learn his trade in the trickiest of circumstances.  I'm not saying that we played well, we didn't, we got a proper shock in that first 30.  We also didn’t get Nielsen or Mullaney on the pitch either, and lost a any chance of strike power for a comeback when Gaskell went off.  But I didn't see anyone on here predicting that performance from Wakey.

 

We might lose to Salford on Sunday, but I’ll bet we’ll start differently now that we’ve had a sighter.

 

Context

This is why Leigh are a better Championship team that us at the moment.  In our first season in the Championship we have tuned into it, Rowley has superbly managed to tune his team out of it.  But he hasn't done that in one season, he's built that mentality into his team.  Lowes needs to do that if we're here again next year.  We have played one SL team all season in HKR and went ok.  Leigh have played Wakey, Salford x2, Warrington and HKR. And yet still they got a thumping yesterday.

 

The deck is rigged in favour of the SL clubs for sure.  The middle 8 system has its merits, but it’s not there to facilitate P/R, it’s there in an attempt to generate interest and income.  In this environment Lowes is expected to beat the system.  God help us next year when the gap widens with the Marquee player allowance.

 

Conclusion

For now >>>> Back Lowes, back the team, back the philosophy and buy your 2016 season ticket regardless.

 

Lowes says 'game on'.  Game on it is then.

[Amber Avenger]

Konk, you should get a job in the club PR department, because I think they may need it come season ticket renewal time! Top post, even though I don't agree with it all, I did enjoy it and can’t disagree with the passion, and to be honest I do agree with the general sentiment.

 

I don’t think we’ve signed any bad players (although if you’d asked me a month ago, Lauaki would have been close to one)– but certainly some un-notable ones -Ulugia Walshaw, Tahraoui and however many more shipped out on loan. I also don’t think Siejka is a “bad” player, I just think he’s unremarkable. I think you’re buying too much into the club’s press releases – loads of players say that the coach is the reason they signed for whatever club – I don’t doubt that in some instances, both under Lowes and elsewhere in the sport, it is true – but they are hardly going to say “well he was a bit dodgy when he was at Warrington” either. The only person it shows are doing their job is the PR department.

 

Where I will give Lowes the benefit of the doubt this season is that surely he was guided by Harrison given his time out of the game, and Harrison’s closer eye on this division. Big improvement needed in the recruitment process in the off-season and I think the amount of mid season signings (and actually they have turned out to be semi-decent ones compared to those we made in late 2014) is a bit of an admission that they’ve gotten this wrong.

 

“Building for the future” – ok, I can get on board with that given the past few years, so long as the future isn’t getting too comfortable in the Championship. I admit that’s really hard considering we’re adapting to life in this division, trying to get out with a system that you rightly say is against us. I did always say it would take two years to get promoted, but I don’t think people will stand for some of the lacklustre performances we’ve put in – and yet won against weaker opposition – for yet another year. Much like when Fev beat us at Odsal, in hindsight the Wakey game was an absolute “Worst of” this year, with every single rubbish thing we’ve done all year in one 80 minute greatest hits compilation.

 

Don’t get me wrong – I want nothing more than for Lowes to prove me wrong – an improvement in performance on Sunday will certainly be a start. It’s a fine balance he’s walking between his reputation as a player at the club and his reputation as a coach elsewhere and going by talking to quite a few fans since Saturday the first cracks in that “giving time and space” to him are starting to appear. I’ll always back the team, but then again I’ve always had doubts even when we were top of the shop!