The Autumn Statement

[Bedford Roughyed]

[Bearman]

, just pointing out that the boomer generation has voted time and again to pull up the drawbridge to deny the following generations the same benefits.

Thats a sweeping generalisation.

Ive never knowingly voted to do anything that would benefit me to the detriment of either my children of grandchildren. Why would I?

In the recent referendum its obvious that I didnt vote the same way that you did.

Do you really believe that I voted for Brexit to brugger up their futures? Again, why would I?

I made MY decision on what I believed was the best option FOR THEM. Now, you may believe that I was wrong and we will have to wait for hindsight to prove it one way or the other.

In the referendum campaign as in the post Brexit days for every expert saying one thing there is another saying the opposite.

The difference is I'm hoping I was right but you seem to be hoping I was wrong, which is pretty strange when you weigh it up.

[Ramite]

A wonderful life? The present retired have had a wonderful life? My parents are in their 80s. They were children at a time when the welfare state and NHS did not exist. My mother's mum was so poor she hid from the rent man to avoid paying rent in order to put food on the table. My parents' generation worked damned hard to get their pensions and endured a lot more than the millennial snowflakes have had to.

I loathe this largely leftwing ageist spite that is presently being spat in the direction of our older people. Give your head a wobble. Alternatively, do some research and find out just what kind of lives our present retired have had and often still do have, and then remember how ignorant you were previously.

I'm sure next we will here about those that paid their stamp are are entitled to it, how they got 4 hours before they went to bed to lick the streets clean. What you can't get away from even anecdotally is that large block of older voters whether they realise or not keep voting to slowly pull the ladder up after themselves.

[Bearman]

I'm sure next we will here about those that paid their stamp are are entitled to it, how they got 4 hours before they went to bed to lick the streets clean. What you can't get away from even anecdotally is that large block of older voters whether they realise or not keep voting to slowly pull the ladder up after themselves.

Old age pensioners dont want their kids to succeed?

Believe me we oldies " lend" (ie give) far more to our kids than our parents did for us ( but if they had had it they would have "lent" it to us too.)

We don't do that in order to feather our nests.

I do not know of anyone that knowingly wants to pull up the ladder to the detriment of their own offspring. But then again you are saying that in our addled, befuddled brains we dont even realise we are doing it.

I don't need to be patronised by any young know it all

[Just Browny]

Old age pensioners dont want their kids to succeed?

Believe me we oldies " lend" (ie give) far more to our kids than our parents did for us ( but if they had had it they would have "lent" it to us too.)

We don't do that in order to feather our nests.

I do not know of anyone that knowingly wants to pull up the ladder to the detriment of their own offspring. But then again you are saying that in our addled, befuddled brains we dont even realise we are doing it.

I don't need to be patronised by any young know it all

You're right that there are lots of parents who pass on a lot of their wealth to their kids.

But the other poor sods are being completely f*****.

I do disagree with making it a generational war: that is far from the only factor, as Ken Loach's latest film makes clear. But it is a factor, and the triple lock is a gold-plated solution at a time when few others are getting even the slightest slip of a chance.

[gingerjon]

I do not know of anyone that knowingly wants to pull up the ladder to the detriment of their own offspring. 

 

If you voted Tory at the last election (or the one before) with their manifesto pledge to protect any and all benefits and services for over 65s whilst cutting benefits and services for everyone else then you have done exactly that.

[Ramite]

Old age pensioners dont want their kids to succeed?

Believe me we oldies " lend" (ie give) far more to our kids than our parents did for us ( but if they had had it they would have "lent" it to us too.)

We don't do that in order to feather our nests.

I do not know of anyone that knowingly wants to pull up the ladder to the detriment of their own offspring. But then again you are saying that in our addled, befuddled brains we dont even realise we are doing it.

I don't need to be patronised by any young know it all

That's exactly what I'm saying like it or not. You can see how many 60+ plus vote tory and who the triple lock is aimed at. Can't have it both ways they are either happy to pull the ladder up or yes don't realise the effect there vote has or don't want to know.

[Bearman]

If you voted Tory at the last election (or the one before) with their manifesto pledge to protect any and all benefits and services for over 65s whilst cutting benefits and services for everyone else then you have done exactly that.

Never did and never will.

If it was only old folk that voted for them they would never get in.

[Trojan]

If you voted Tory at the last election (or the one before) with their manifesto pledge to protect any and all benefits and services for over 65s whilst cutting benefits and services for everyone else then you have done exactly that.

But the "triple lock" was claimed by the Lib/Dems as their policy.  Part of the coalition agreement.

[clwydianrange]

We are discussing the triple locked pension as though it is a vast sum, it's not. £7500 a year puts us 21st in a league of 27 European countries.

[gingerjon]

But the "triple lock" was claimed by the Lib/Dems as their policy.  Part of the coalition agreement.

 

Which is why I went wider than just the pension. There are good reasons to protect the pension (to an extent, I don't think anyone foresaw the perfect storm around it now and the triple lock needs reviewing) - but benefits and services, including plenty that are not means tested or where younger people have equal or greater need, have been protected for older people whilst they have been slashed for everyone else.

 

And that isn't saying that all pensioners are selfish farts sitting in clover.  It is saying that relative to everyone else they haven't just been spared the worst of the past decade their lives have improved whilst everyone else's have got worse.

[Trojan]

Which is why I went wider than just the pension. There are good reasons to protect the pension (to an extent, I don't think anyone foresaw the perfect storm around it now and the triple lock needs reviewing) - but benefits and services, including plenty that are not means tested or where younger people have equal or greater need, have been protected for older people whilst they have been slashed for everyone else.

 

And that isn't saying that all pensioners are selfish farts sitting in clover.  It is saying that relative to everyone else they haven't just been spared the worst of the past decade their lives have improved whilst everyone else's have got worse.

The triple lock was the Lib/Dem reaction to Lawson decoupling pensions from wages in the eighties, just as many of those who fought in WWII were coming up for pensions. It was a disgraceful thing to do  And  Labour should have corrected it when they were in. But as usual the Tories not only got away with removing it, but 30 years later took the credit for restoring  the link..

[Bedford Roughyed]

[Bearman]

A treasury forecast for 4 years hence?

I hope they have a new crystal ball. Their old one was a bit misty.

[Bedford Roughyed]

A treasury forecast for 4 years hence?

I hope they have a new crystal ball. Their old one was a bit misty.

 

 

By that logic there is no point in having a budget.  Its all wrong so why change anything?  

[Saintslass]

By that logic there is no point in having a budget.  Its all wrong so why change anything?  

 

There is little point in having forecasts, especially forecasts over a four year period and particularly a four year period that includes exiting the EU.  The forecasts from earlier this year about what would happen should the country vote to leave the EU were wrong, and that was a forecast covering just a few months.  The latest round of forecasts is just a pointless guessing game.

[Bedford Roughyed]

There is little point in having forecasts, especially forecasts over a four year period and particularly a four year period that includes exiting the EU.  The forecasts from earlier this year about what would happen should the country vote to leave the EU were wrong, and that was a forecast covering just a few months.  The latest round of forecasts is just a pointless guessing game.

 

 

Without a forecast how can you do a budget?  How can you plan?  How can you justify any spending or any cuts?

 

This post truth, post expert, post poll and post forecast world will be very exciting.

[Padge]

There is little point in having forecasts, especially forecasts over a four year period and particularly a four year period that includes exiting the EU.  The forecasts from earlier this year about what would happen should the country vote to leave the EU were wrong, and that was a forecast covering just a few months.  The latest round of forecasts is just a pointless guessing game.

 

But surely the Brexiteers have been forecasting we will be better off out of the EU, what was the point of the referendum if this wasn't the case.

[John Drake]

There is little point in having forecasts, especially forecasts over a four year period and particularly a four year period that includes exiting the EU.  The forecasts from earlier this year about what would happen should the country vote to leave the EU were wrong, and that was a forecast covering just a few months.  The latest round of forecasts is just a pointless guessing game.

 

So you are advocating government by leap of faith?

 

"Let's try this, we have absolutely no idea what the consequences will be, but let's just give it a whirl and hope for the best..."

 

For pity's sake.

[Padge]

So you are advocating government by leap of faith?

 

"Let's try this, we have absolutely no idea what the consequences will be, but let's just give it a whirl and hope for the best..."

 

For pity's sake.

 

Isn't that what we have just done John?

[Griff9of13]

Isn't that what we have just done John?

Given that there was absolutely no planning and indeed no agreed destination for brexit that is exactly what we've done.

Tories are fond of making government analogous to business, but no business would dream of making such a huge change without prior planning and forecasting and it would only decided on the course of action once those forecasts had been carefully studied. And only then decide which path to choose.

[GeordieSaint]

Without a forecast how can you do a budget? How can you plan? How can you justify any spending or any cuts?

This post truth, post expert, post poll and post forecast world will be very exciting.

Jeopardy rules...

[Trojan]

There is little point in having forecasts, especially forecasts over a four year period and particularly a four year period that includes exiting the EU.  The forecasts from earlier this year about what would happen should the country vote to leave the EU were wrong, and that was a forecast covering just a few months.  The latest round of forecasts is just a pointless guessing game.

How can you say the forecasts of what would happen if we left the EU were wrong? We haven't left yet, and it is a known fact that most economic effects take at least a year to materialise in the lives of ordinary people.

[Saintslass]

How can you say the forecasts of what would happen if we left the EU were wrong? We haven't left yet, and it is a known fact that most economic effects take at least a year to materialise in the lives of ordinary people.

 

They weren't forecasts about what would happen if we left the EU though, as I'm sure you already know.  The forecasts I refer to were those dealing with the referendum and should we vote to leave the EU. 

[Saintslass]

So you are advocating government by leap of faith?

 

 

Nope, although it would probably be just as useful.

 

Forecasting serves a purpose - budgets, as others have said - but at the end of the day to attempt a forecast for a four year spell which includes an event we haven't experienced before seems pointless, and there was actually no need to publicise one or even undertake one as it's utterly worthless even for budget setting.