England Squad Named

[redjonn]

7 hours ago, Scubby said:

My post was that it will be two minutes that will haunt Kevin Sinfield, nothing more. He made a bad error with the last play kick when we were in the NZ half and the clock was running down. He then shot out of the line to close down Johnson and didn't execute. He had a decent tournament IMO but if you ask him honestly he is probably kicking himself still at how that game closed out.

yep, probably but whose to say that if he hadn't shot out the line that a try would not have been scored anyway.

For me the penalty that allowed the extra tackles was as much to blame, although for me more of a reason for the try. Its close to the end, the team is tired mentally and physically last thing you want is another set of six on the line. I never hear much on that just the focus on Sinfield, which if not you personally some always want to scapegoat.

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Interesting pieces from The Roar last month.  First link includes Sam Burgess.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/21/six-powerful-nrl-players-past-18-years-part-2/

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/09/14/six-powerful-nrl-players-past-18-years-part-1/

I'm surprised Taumalolo didn't make it on?

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, redjonn said:

yep, probably but whose to say that if he hadn't shot out the line that a try would not have been scored anyway.

For me the penalty that allowed the extra tackles was as much to blame, although for me more of a reason for the try. Its close to the end, the team is tired mentally and physically last thing you want is another set of six on the line. I never hear much on that just the focus on Sinfield, which if not you personally some always want to scapegoat.

Agree with what you say. I personally do not think of him that way at all and, yes, the penalty was also crucial on the fifth. My reference is probably how gutted a perfectionist like Sinfield would have been. For years with Leeds he has been closing similar games out. 

[DavidM]

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Seeing as though we are discussing the 2013 semi... question - is England 2017 a better team than 2013.

Here is the Wembley team

England: Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Widdop, Sinfield, Graham, Roby, S. Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin. Replacements: Burrow, G. Burgess, Hill, Ablett.

I would say if we can get a half back pairing to click we are a better team now not least that Widdop is in miles better form in 2017.  McGilvary is a better winger than Charnley, and I like Whitehead and Currie in the second row compared to Ferres and Westwood.

The 2013 Tomkins was a good full back though.

Interesting that when you look at it in black n white . I’d say our first choice 17 looks much stronger , and yes the kiwis look the reverse . Realistically we should be aiming at getting to the final to lose to Australia again 

[Lowdesert]

31 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I'm surprised Taumalolo didn't make it on?

Yes.  Maybe that it's over 18 years.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

I think you have just made my point though?

Burgess was in the Dally M team of the year prior to union and now he is not. Now I am not saying he isn’t still some hell of a player, but he is not as good.

I can tell you this year he has had fewer carries, made less metres per carry, made less metres per game, scored fewer try’s, broken the line less, made fewer tackles, fewer less tackle busts, offloaded less and missed more tackles than he did in 2014.

As far as I can see, in every facet of his game, he is worse.

That's a pretty powerful argument and seeing as though i have used stats a fair bit on this site to prove a point i would have to be pretty hypocritical  to ignore!

I would add one mitigating factor.  In 2014 South's were running 3rd on the ladder and in 2017 they were 14th and I believe that in a team game the overall performance on the team will impact individual stats.

But I will concede that yes, Burgess was a better player in 2014 than 2017 (although I think he can return to and surpass his 2014 form).

But my original point was to challenge a statement that said the Burgess of 2013 was 'infinitely' better than 2017 and I stand by my defence that that is not true.

[Roy Boy]

Here we go!  Farcial imo!

http://www.seriousaboutrl.com/betts-players-need-to-play-out-of-position-10373/

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

Here we go!  Farcial imo!

http://www.seriousaboutrl.com/betts-players-need-to-play-out-of-position-10373/

I dont think there is too much wrong with that. They have gone with ensuring they have loads of forward cover and covering backs with these forward utilities.

If you load your bench with forwards, 60% of your team are forwards, and 60% of the squad are forwards.

[DavidM]

13 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

Here we go!  Farcial imo!

http://www.seriousaboutrl.com/betts-players-need-to-play-out-of-position-10373/

I understand what you’re saying , I had the same thought about square pegs round holes and learning from experience . On the other hand he makes a valid case about the nature of the comp in tough conditions , and maybe an implied one about the strength in depth of outside backs they had to pick from ?

[Roy Boy]

I've never been an advocate of playing people out of position.

I'm happy that some positions are similar and a player can cover to a degree, but surely in a competition when you are supposedly playing the best in the world, it is more important than ever to be able to concentrate on playing your regular position rather than the pressure already on your shoulders by adding the fact you have to remember where you should go after making a tackle or expecting a kick.

It's going to be some team performance for us to go all the way, that's for sure!

[Scubby]

We could do with Richard Horne as cover for the wing spots 

[Dunbar]

Personally I would have gone 'old school' and selected 24 loose forwards. 

[Jim Prendle]

14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

We could do with Richard Horne as cover for the wing spots 

And Karl Pratt.

[Scubby]

Just now, Jim Prendle said:

And Karl Pratt.

[Jim Prendle]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

So that's what happened to him.

[Roy Boy]

10 hours ago, Scubby said:

We could do with Richard Horne as cover for the wing spots 

Got that right - what a waste that was!

That's my point - why pick someone then play them deliberately out of position?

[MrPosh]

16 hours ago, OMEGA said:

I didn’t say Sam wasn’t good just better in 2013

This year he has been one of the best players in the world and is probably England's best player.

In 2013 he was the best player the world.

Technically, I suppose, he's had a little step down, but I don't think a forward has played as well as he did in 2013 since. Taumalolo this year has come close.

[MrPosh]

10 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Personally I would have gone 'old school' and selected 24 loose forwards. 

David?

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, MrPosh said:

David?

Wait a minute........ no!

[rhinos78]

Think we could regret only having two specialist wingers in the squad,the games moved on too much now to just throw a center on the wing. They get targeted so much now with all kinds of attacking kicks that even specialist wingers who have to deal with them every week struggle,the likes of cooper cronk would have a field day if we have to put percival on a wing.

Also,Hate playing forwards in the backs,its never worked for us but we never learn.

[Tom Moore]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:08 PM, DoubleD said:

It was George Burgess giving away a needless penalty that gave NZ the field position for SJ to work his magic

Quoted the wrong post, I'll try again.

Apologies.

 

 

[Tom Moore]

On 10/10/2017 at 2:35 PM, Allora said:

Maybe England are jinxed?

Meninga's run away last minute try.

Hall's fingertip.

Sinfield's lack of tactical nous and then lack of pace.

I am sure there are other incidents that have seen England pipped at the post.

 

 

The entire 2003 Ashes series.

John bloody Deveraux.

1995, when they brought their second team and we still couldn't capitalise.

Well, this is fun, must remember these more often.