4 Nov: RLWC2017 (Group B): New Zealand v Scotland - Match Thread

[londonrlfan]

10 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

How is that Scotland’s fault in terms of admittance to the tournament? It’s the organisers and the RLIF’s fault for not having any balls and getting rid of them.

The funding removal had nothing to do with Sport England surely as well? It was the RFL who withdrew the funds unless you are telling me the RFL was misappropriating them? Clearly Scotland’s foundations were not as robust as the Welsh/Irish ones hence the collapse of the community game or their administration weren’t as driven as their other Celtic counterparts. 

I didn't say it was Scotland's fault. I said the RLIF cater to them over other nations. I couldn't see Russia for example being allowed to compete without a domestic competition. 

[londonrlfan]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Tick all the boxes was the question.

Depends what you mean by 'tick boxes'. Scotland don't tick any and are full members. 

[Dave T]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

Depends what you mean by 'tick boxes'. Scotland don't tick any and are full members. 

They dont tick ANY boxes of being a full member? Are you dealing in facts on this thread?

[GeordieSaint]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

I didn't say it was Scotland's fault. I said the RLIF cater to them over other nations. I couldn't see Russia for example being allowed to compete without a domestic competition. 

My fault - linked that post with your comments about Scotland leeching.

[Man of Kent]

Johnnie Walker sent home for being too drunk. Delicious 

[londonrlfan]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

They dont tick ANY boxes of being a full member? Are you dealing in facts on this thread?

Domestic Competition - no

Youth development - no

That wouldn't fit affiliate membership at the moment. 

[londonrlfan]

Put it this way. If Scotland weren't at RLWC 2021, what would we miss? The BBC don't care, Scottish media don't care, there's no Scottish products on the pitch, Brough would be long retired by then, the 'home' games would be played in Workington. 

[chuffer]

just watching the highlights, dont know if its Scotland being woeful but the kiwis look very impressive, sharp passing by forwards and backs, particularly their props and second rows....wouldnt fancy our chances against them tbh!

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Put it this way. If Scotland weren't at RLWC 2021, what would we miss? The BBC don't care, Scottish media don't care, there's no Scottish products on the pitch, Brough would be long retired by then, the 'home' games would be played in Workington. 

Their national team added something to the comps in 2008 and 2013, and they added something to 2016 Four Nations.

The BBC dont care about anyone but England, a one team World Cup would be boring (and wed still lose in the semis).

The Scottish media covered the 2013 tournament rather nicely, considering the organisers sold the rights to Premier and the game is little knowb in Scotland.

Scottish products - that may be a problem, but they work with the same rules as everyone else - they do have two Scottish born players in their squad iirc.

Home games wouldnt be in Workington. I have watched Scotland stage home games in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Galashiels, often with bigger crowds than Wales or Ireland. In any case, the 2021 WC is not a Scotland home WC anyway, so not sure of your point.

Surely instead of people wanting Scotland RL to die, they should want Scotland RL to grow?

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Domestic Competition - no

Youth development - no

That wouldn't fit affiliate membership at the moment. 

Why list only two criteria?

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Spot on. The bigger problem here is that we do silly things like give free qualification because they did well in 2013. That said they would probably have qualified above all the alternativea mentioned.

There clearly needs to be a rethink on the approach to the game in Scotland, but I dont ever want to see anyone give up anywhere.

 

If they beat Samoa next week they will qualify for 2021 as all the quarter finalists get a spot

[Dave T]

Just now, Spidey said:

If they beat Samoa next week they will qualify for 2021 as all the quarter finalists get a spot

The qualification process is typical RL. It stops us having to bother organising games and stuff.

They did prevent USA from automatic qualification this time though so there is a precedent set.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The qualification process is typical RL. It stops us having to bother organising games and stuff.

They did prevent USA from automatic qualification this time though so there is a precedent set.

Yup. 8 automatic places is too many. I wouldn’t mind if it was just the semi finalist. It’d guarantee some international games as qualifiers 

[Lowdesert]

Imo there is an opportunity to group and seed lots of these developing nations and run an event alongside the WC as well as they’re own.  The issue of this breakaway ‘body’ still needs bringing in line and onboard.  Maybe this is the time but for the structure, I don’t know.

We seem to have more and more countries playing the game.  If we could offer a way into, say, the top 14 from that group, the lesser developed nations could compete at their own level with an opportunity to ‘qualify’ for any given tournament.

[absentee thoughtlord]

3 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think the Scottish RL are getting some unfair stick here. It’s not their fault they’ve been accepted into the competition and they aren’t going to turn down the place are they?!

In no way am I dismissing the players, officials or enthusiasts. I'm just stating the obvious: there is no appetite for the game in Scotland. 

You can take a horse to water but you cannae make him drink.

[londonrlfan]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why list only two criteria?

What are the others? Needing an office or whatever, hardly the main criteria for full membership. 

[londonrlfan]

23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Their national team added something to the comps in 2008 and 2013, and they added something to 2016 Four Nations.

The BBC dont care about anyone but England, a one team World Cup would be boring (and wed still lose in the semis).

The Scottish media covered the 2013 tournament rather nicely, considering the organisers sold the rights to Premier and the game is little knowb in Scotland.

Scottish products - that may be a problem, but they work with the same rules as everyone else - they do have two Scottish born players in their squad iirc.

Home games wouldnt be in Workington. I have watched Scotland stage home games in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Galashiels, often with bigger crowds than Wales or Ireland. In any case, the 2021 WC is not a Scotland home WC anyway, so not sure of your point.

Surely instead of people wanting Scotland RL to die, they should want Scotland RL to grow?

I do want it to grow and I'd love to see a strong domestic competition and players with Scottish accents featuring at the world cup. However the way it's going, the game will die off in Scotland. The RLIF need to force them to get their act together. If that means lowering their membership, then so be it. They did it to Greece and Germany and now the sport there is in a better state. 

[GeordieSaint]

8 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

In no way am I dismissing the players, officials or enthusiasts. I'm just stating the obvious: there is no appetite for the game in Scotland. 

You can take a horse to water but you cannae make him drink.

I am not that’s the case. Yes, there weren’t thousands turn up for internationals but clubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh were starting to produce youngsters who were being to appear at SL Academy level; Dave Scott being a prime example (along with a couple of others at the Hull clubs). Roots takes years and years and years to bear fruit - London is a prime example. As usual we didn’t try properly in Scotland and haven’t really done so in places like Wales.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

I do want it to grow and I'd love to see a strong domestic competition and players with Scottish accents featuring at the world cup. However the way it's going, the game will die off in Scotland. The RLIF need to force them to get their act together. If that means lowering their membership, then so be it. They did it to Greece and Germany and now the sport there is in a better state. 

Well in that case we agree. We dont need hysterics to make them look bad; anyobe can see Scotland RL is struggling.

[La belle chanson]

2 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

Would they have been any worse if they'd given David Scott a run out? Everyone says domestic players would mean thrashings, but even pro players can get thrashed. 

David Scott is injured . Got injury in warm up game and was in hospital .

[graveyard johnny]

are nz missing the overinflated egos of some of the defectors or has it made them a better unit?

[RayCee]

3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

are nz missing the overinflated egos of some of the defectors or has it made them a better unit?

I think the team is galvanised when rules are set and then enforced, especially when big names are involved. The discipline then transfers onto the field. People need boundaries. I wonder how Scotland will react to three players sent home early?

[Damien]

9 hours ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

In no way am I dismissing the players, officials or enthusiasts. I'm just stating the obvious: there is no appetite for the game in Scotland. 

You can take a horse to water but you cannae make him drink.

I completely disagree. I would say there has never been a proper attempt to start, develop and maintain RL in Scotland, or Ireland for that matter. The same can also largely be said of Wales, its just that Wales benefits from historically deeper RL roots.

[Dave T]

59 minutes ago, Damien said:

I completely disagree. I would say there has never been a proper attempt to start, develop and maintain RL in Scotland, or Ireland for that matter. The same can also largely be said of Wales, its just that Wales benefits from historically deeper RL roots.

I agree. It is also no coincidence that some of these nations did better when there was RFL funding and there were Super League games being taken on the road to those places.

[Niels]

11 hours ago, La belle chanson said:

David Scott is injured . Got injury in warm up game and was in hospital .

I must admit that as a Batley fan, seeing Dave Scott in the Scotland squad added an interest to the competition for me.

It is great to see Championship players involved and makes it inclusive for all. 

I am in Scotland at the moment and having the national team participating has sustained interest in the game.