Home Nations - will there be a plan?

[Lowdesert]

Wales and Scotland have had a shellacking.  Effort good, but obvious lack of quality and depth to compete.  Heat v PNG will have affected Wales big time although Fiji would have still taken the points.  Ireland have had a real dig.

Development officers & funding taken away.  Whats it going to take to get these nations going? Forget heritage players, IMO we need all three to grow and compete better all round.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

7 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Wales and Scotland have had a shellacking.  Effort good, but obvious lack of quality and depth to compete.  Heat v PNG will have affected Wales big time although Fiji would have still taken the points.  Ireland have had a real dig.

Development officers & funding taken away.  Whats it going to take to get these nations going? Forget heritage players, IMO we need all three to grow and compete better all round.

There are quite a few Welsh lads in superleague academies now so there is a fair chance that Wales will improve over the next few years, it could help to become self fulfilling - the better they get the more young lads want to play. 

Ireland I believe have a fledgling league set-up that may help grow the game, but I really don't know 

Scotland looks like not much can be done to get the game moving there, unfortunately football is king and virtually know other sport matters much 

[londonrlfan]

I think for Ireland, the plan should be to link up with a league 1 club and get more of their domestic players playing at a semi pro level. Heritage players should be good to help strengthen the team, but the core should be Irish, just like the Welsh. Changing teams every tournament is not good and doesn't help to build a squad for the long term.

Wales, they have 2 teams, Crusaders should be pushing for more Welsh players, but also looking to link up with SL for their juniors, like Regan Grace for example.

Scotland need to go back to basics. Find an area to target, then start to put on friendlies between clubs and build from there. Glasgow seemed to be their strongest region and areas like Easterhouse have developed players. If they have to sit out 2021 as they're not ready, so be it. Wales missed 2008 and now there's more Welsh players than ever in the sport. 

[GeordieSaint]

The RFL washed its hands of the other home nations in 2013; I think only Wales have anything resembling a long term developmental plan and that is impeded by money. It’ll be situation no change once the WC is over...

[londonrlfan]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

The RFL washed its hands of the other home nations in 2013; I think only Wales have anything resembling a long term developmental plan and that is impeded by money. It’ll be situation no change once the WC is over...

Why is it up to the RFL to run everything? If you're competing at the WC, you should be really standing on your own two feet. The RFL don't help Lebanon, Italy or the USA either. 

[Tommygilf]

Ultimately, good development work will be underpinned by good healthy finances. For the other home nations the best way for this to be achieved is surely through high profile Tests against England, France etc. 

That generates interest which generates investment which hopefully goes to developing the sport long term in these places. Even as a 3 week mid season (which if the 8s for the top of SL do disappear could become a natural slot) "summer test match" series it could do a lot for the game in these countries. 

I think what we are also seeing is that having two mid table L1 sides as the basis of the professional ranks and development is not going to be good enough internationally at senior level. One of West Wales or Crusaders need to get moving up the Leagues soon. 

Additionally if the RFL does not want to be directly financially attached to the other RLs, then offering incentives to SL clubs either at academy or senior level to take players from these other nations on could be a more subtle way forward to compliment development work.

[Lowdesert]

13 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Why is it up to the RFL to run everything? If you're competing at the WC, you should be really standing on your own two feet. The RFL don't help Lebanon, Italy or the USA either. 

Fair enough but the NRL are assisting png and Fiji.  

I don’t think the RFL should run things, it should be for those nations to develop their own, but so far, things aren’t working.  May everyone the RFL gave up the funding to Scotland due to lack of progress and their own resources cull, but IMO they need to have some input.  

[Lowdesert]

44 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

There are quite a few Welsh lads in superleague academies now so there is a fair chance that Wales will improve over the next few years, it could help to become self fulfilling - the better they get the more young lads want to play. 

Ireland I believe have a fledgling league set-up that may help grow the game, but I really don't know 

Scotland looks like not much can be done to get the game moving there, unfortunately football is king and virtually know other sport matters much 

We need to forget football, forget RU etc and focus on RL.  Players just want to play. 

[londonrlfan]

3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Fair enough but the NRL are assisting png and Fiji.  

I don’t think the RFL should run things, it should be for those nations to develop their own, but so far, things aren’t working.  May everyone the RFL gave up the funding to Scotland due to lack of progress and their own resources cull, but IMO they need to have some input.  

They could always go to Sport Scotland.. or have Union blocked their membership too? 

The NRL has a billion dollar tv deal, so they should be. Do you the RFL has that kind of money? There are areas in England where they cut development funding, London for example, and that is far more important to the sport than 4 teams in Scotland. 

[Random tiger]

The basic question is whether there is truly interest in rugby league that reaches past the M62 . When I say interest I mean commercial support that is sustainable and with media platforms and marketing. 

Frankly I don’t see it. Toronto and Toulouse seem the only genuine hope. Perhaps after those clubs bring more money to the RFL then the home countries can build again. 

[Lowdesert]

17 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

They could always go to Sport Scotland.. or have Union blocked their membership too? 

The NRL has a billion dollar tv deal, so they should be. Do you the RFL has that kind of money? There are areas in England where they cut development funding, London for example, and that is far more important to the sport than 4 teams in Scotland. 

They could.  No I don’t.  Yes, the RFL has priorities. No I wouldn’t want any development cuts.

So, if we’re saying, leave Scotland to itself, that’s just giving up.  What can Scotland RL do?  From all the plaudits last time round to this, someone’s got to want to change things.

[londonrlfan]

Just now, Lowdesert said:

They could.  No I don’t.  Yes, the RFL has priorities. No I wouldn’t want any development cuts.

So, if we’re saying, leave Scotland to itself, that’s just giving up.  What can Scotland RL do?  From all the plaudits last time round to this, someone’s got to want to change things.

They could crowdfund, put out information on social media etc. It's 2017, the opportunities are limitless. No one's saying they have to be NRL level, but if Turkey can get a league up and running, why can't Scotland? 

[Damien]

24 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

They could always go to Sport Scotland.. or have Union blocked their membership too? 

The NRL has a billion dollar tv deal, so they should be. Do you the RFL has that kind of money? There are areas in England where they cut development funding, London for example, and that is far more important to the sport than 4 teams in Scotland. 

Jesus wept, so the NRL should be taking a lead but the RFL shouldn't be. The RFL have a £200 million TV deal, hardly peanuts. That smacks of double standards to me. £100,000 a year to Ireland and Scotland to assist in getting development officers and teams setup is a drop in the ocean and would benefit Super League and Championship clubs in the way of players.

[Lowdesert]

14 minutes ago, Random tiger said:

The basic question is whether there is truly interest in rugby league that reaches past the M62 . When I say interest I mean commercial support that is sustainable and with media platforms and marketing. 

Frankly I don’t see it. Toronto and Toulouse seem the only genuine hope. Perhaps after those clubs bring more money to the RFL then the home countries can build again. 

We know some M62 clubs are just surviving, but having further fields to recruit from is in they’re interests.  Why wouldn’t m62 clubs want Wales, Ireland and Scotland to have their own international teams?

[EastLondonMike]

If you want people interested in the sport you have to at least try and interest them, not just hope they flick on Sky Sports one day and fall in love with the game.

Take SL games to Cardiff, London, Edinburgh, Dublin, Newcastle on an annual basis and do it for 10 years, with the intention of generating interest. 

Having a ###### plan sometimes helps!

[londonrlfan]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Jesus wept, so the NRL should be taking a lead but the RFL shouldn't be. The RFL have a £200 million TV deal, hardly peanuts. That smacks of double standards to me. £100,000 a year to Ireland and Scotland to assist in getting development officers and teams setup is a drop in the ocean and would benefit Super League and Championship clubs in the way of players.

How much money have the NRL actually put into these island countries? PNG playing in the QC is funded by their government. The RFL were actually giving Sport England funding to Scotland and Ireland and were rightly told to stop. So what's stopping Scotland from requesting Sport Scotland funding? The head of Scotland RL is my club's ex Chairman, so you're saying he has no contacts or knowledge from his time then? No wonder we're so badly run then. Why don't the RFL give money to every country in Europe too then? When does it stop? There's no potential sponsorship opportunities in Scotland or Ireland that could help? Didn't Scotland have a lucrative sponsorship deal with Highland Spring that sponsored the league? So what happened? 

[Scubby]

No hope for the home nations I'm afraid. The 2021 RLWC is 100% in England with the majority of the games in the north of England. Government funding from the "Northern Powerhouse" pot. Aside from it giving us a stash of cash to help us put on a big tournament, it also puts us firmly in our place as a northern England sport.

Wales can go fish. Scotland can now include Workington and Maryport to cover any RLIF criteria for the domestic game. 

 

[Spidey]

Just now, Scubby said:

No hope for the home nations I'm afraid. The 2021 RLWC is 100% in England with the majority of the games in the north of England. Government funding from the "Northern Powerhouse" pot. Aside from it giving us a stash of cash to help us put on a big tournament, it also puts us firmly in our place as a northern England sport.

Wales can go fish.

 

With all that in place it does seem bizzare of any return to GB, you’d want England playing regularly building up to an England World Cup

[iangidds]

20 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

They could.  No I don’t.  Yes, the RFL has priorities. No I wouldn’t want any development cuts.

So, if we’re saying, leave Scotland to itself, that’s just giving up.  What can Scotland RL do?  From all the plaudits last time round to this, someone’s got to want to change things.

Sometimes you have to know when to give up ! Putting effort into places and people that want to play RL makes sense to me; it's easy to watch money going down the drain in Scotland and Ireland . Concentrate on Wales , FRANCE, Serbia to really grow the game .

Irelands rugby players are lost to Union and Scotland has not got any players really if we are brutally honest

[DoubleD]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

No hope for the home nations I'm afraid. The 2021 RLWC is 100% in England with the majority of the games in the north of England. Government funding from the "Northern Powerhouse" pot. Aside from it giving us a stash of cash to help us put on a big tournament, it also puts us firmly in our place as a northern England sport.

Wales can go fish.

 

Sadly it does come down to money though Scubby. £25 million it a huge incentive and you can't blame the RFL or RLIF for taking that option. Did the other home nations actually bid for any of the games like PNG/NZ?

Who knows and it may still happen, as I don't think the venues are set in stone, as I hear that Bristol may well get a match (they weren't originally on the list) as part of the development of a League 1 team there

[Scubby]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

With all that in place it does seem bizzare of any return to GB, you’d want England playing regularly building up to an England World Cup

It's not bizarre at all. Take a man in his mid-fifties running a sport like RL and ask him to talk fondly about his halcyon days. He would probably talk about yo-yo-club Halifax winning promotion and then the Challenge Cup, Mal Reilly coaching GB, Ashes series and the best pies in the league at Watersheddings (I remember those pies too BTW).

It is basically a pathetic RL version of Field of Dreams "Build it and they will come"

Oh and we have to put a World Cup on too! So yep, that can be England to ensure we have the Government cash.

[Lowdesert]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

No hope for the home nations I'm afraid. The 2021 RLWC is 100% in England with the majority of the games in the north of England. Government funding from the "Northern Powerhouse" pot. Aside from it giving us a stash of cash to help us put on a big tournament, it also puts us firmly in our place as a northern England sport.

Wales can go fish.

 

2021 is far too soon for them anyway.  I could see Ireland building slightly and the island countries slightly weakening due to travelling, but I would see it as a 10 - 15 year plan anyway.  They can all fish for 2021.

 

[stevevalerugby]

i think European RL should look at a tournament that runs every year much like the 6 nations in Rugby Union.  It would mean a lot more test matches and would hopefully bring up the standard.  Perhaps England , Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France in 1 competition and a second to run alongside for the likes of Serbia, Germany, Italy, Malta, Spain etc with promotion between each tournament. I know time constraints would be a problem and perhaps England wouldn't want to participate but we need to try and get the levels of international RL to a better level.  Also get rid of this Tier 1 and Tier 2 if you play international Rugby League for a specific team that's  who you have to play for not jumping between teams in Tier 1 and Tier 2.

[Lowdesert]

5 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

i think European RL should look at a tournament that runs every year much like the 6 nations in Rugby Union.  It would mean a lot more test matches and would hopefully bring up the standard.  Perhaps England , Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France in 1 competition and a second to run alongside for the likes of Serbia, Germany, Italy, Malta, Spain etc with promotion between each tournament. I know time constraints would be a problem and perhaps England wouldn't want to participate but we need to try and get the levels of international RL to a better level.  Also get rid of this Tier 1 and Tier 2 if you play international Rugby League for a specific team that's  who you have to play for not jumping between teams in Tier 1 and Tier 2.

From a watching international rl I think that would be great.  Competition without a whupping and still having ability to qualify for the WC seems obvious.

[Scubby]

19 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

How much money have the NRL actually put into these island countries? PNG playing in the QC is funded by their government. The RFL were actually giving Sport England funding to Scotland and Ireland and were rightly told to stop. So what's stopping Scotland from requesting Sport Scotland funding? The head of Scotland RL is my club's ex Chairman, so you're saying he has no contacts or knowledge from his time then? No wonder we're so badly run then. Why don't the RFL give money to every country in Europe too then? When does it stop? There's no potential sponsorship opportunities in Scotland or Ireland that could help? Didn't Scotland have a lucrative sponsorship deal with Highland Spring that sponsored the league? So what happened? 

They pay the match payments to NZ players for every Anzac test, underwrite the Pacific test and did fully fund the Samoa v Fiji game in Apia to be fair.