2 Dec: RLWC2017 (Final): Australia v England - Match Thread

[EagleEyePie]

Gale was a mixed bag. In the first half his kicking was good in the circumstances but some of his passing was poor and the same goes for Brown. Gale's defence is a bit weak but he did quite well in that department. Some poor decision making came at the end but I don't think Gale was necessarily worse than Brown. Both struggled without O'Loughlin around to create the space and the pull the defence back inside before going wide.

I don't think either Brown or Gale are the long term solution in the halves for England though. Brown is probably past his best and Gale just doesn't seem to produce his best at international level. He was the best we had but probably not quite good enough at that level, as has been the case with pretty much every halfback in the last decade or so. If he's outstanding again next year he'll get picked, but if next season provides a halfback with promise and potential who performs better in Super League I don't think Gale has done enough to be picked for the sake of consistency. It's great to have consistency but only if you've got proven quality.

Williams was obviously one of the big hopes, as he's got a more physical side to his game than most halves, but his decision making has deserted him this year and he needs a very big season next year to avoid falling into the same category as someone like Richie Myler, who had plenty of hype but never delivered. He's the best hope for a world class halfback but a long way from it at the moment.

We're also probably lacking a bit of strength throughout the squad too. I don't think Currie is international quality but he will be soon and probably gained a lot from that experience. Without Burgess in there the back row just seemed a bit weak. Currie, McMeeken, Bateman just aren't the same standard as some of the players we've had in the past. All that could change within a season though.

 

[Trojan]

2 hours ago, Stan Doffarf said:

We need a stand off. Kevin Brown ain't it, and never was.

I'd agree.  But IMO he was the best available.  In that last 20 mins we needed someone with a bit of guile.  But who?

[redjonn]

Agree with the comments on Gale... have to stick with him to build his confidence at this level and then he will be more prepared to lead attack and execute and take better options..confidence for me as its another level up and whilst may be confident in fact a little arrogant at club level he obvious he doesn't feel the same yet at international level. 

Big loss was O'loughlin in that needed to have Widdop in half-backs without him... So assuming we find the full-back, halfbacks for me would be Gale & Widdop going forward.

[Trojan]

Well, whatever the "ifs"  and "ands" we lost, and that's all the news media really care about. We lost for several reasons, but one was the Aussie try from a pass that couldn't even be described as marginally forward, it was a couple of yards forward.   But then playing Australia, in Australia, with an Aussie ref, what did we expect?  What the international game needs is to produce some refs for such games from other countries.  France, New Zealand PNG?  Get the best of their refs and have them ref in the NRL or the Superleague week in week out.

[Trojan]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Agree with the comments on Gale... have to stick with him to build his confidence at this level and then he will be more prepared to lead attack and execute and take better options..confidence for me as its another level up and whilst may be confident in fact a little arrogant at club level he obvious he doesn't feel the same yet at international level. 

Big loss was O'loughlin in that needed to have Widdop in half-backs without him... So assuming we find the full-back, halfbacks for me would be Gale & Widdop going forward.

Is Hardaker excluded permanently then?  IMO he would truly have made a difference had he been available.

[DavidM]

Must say I said ‘ forward ‘ right away for the try , but thems the rub . 

[Trojan]

3 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Must say I said ‘ forward ‘ right away for the try , but thems the rub . 

As someone posted earlier, I've no doubt had it been an England try he'd have called it.  The receiver was definitely in front when the ball was passed.  You could make a case for offside.

[ivans82]

THANK GOD OTHER POSTERS ARE NOW SAYING THE TRY WAS FORWARD , THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE !

[DavidM]

Enjoyed the commentary there today , they were bang on the ball with what they were saying and Millward has proved a gem of an acquisition for the coverage 

[philipw]

2 hours ago, John Rhino said:

Well said. From memory he thanked all the players families so no problem for me.

This is not a time to pick holes. It was a fantastic game 

An absolutely ridiculous thing to try to pull him up for IMO

[philipw]

12 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Is Hardaker excluded permanently then?  IMO he would truly have made a difference had he been available.

Well he will be excluded for the next two years, at a guess

[ivans82]

The shame of it all is Hardaker would have made a massive difference , but it`s something that was out of our control .

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Kickable penalties did us. England rarely looked like scoring but had a few opportunities to knock one over but chose to run the ball and lost it.

 

Great specticle though. Tough, really tough game. Thoroughly intense.  

[OMEGA]

Some poor passing and decision making from Gale, both Morgan and Cronk made clean breaks in the 2nd half

[jacksy]

One consolation is that Australia do not have another Smith, Cronk, Thurston or Slater waiting in the wings at the moment.Plenty of good players but not as good as these four.

The longer they keep going the better if you ask me.

Their dominance and longevity has probably wiped out quite a few future Kangaroos.

[bobbruce]

Superb effort from everyone especially players who have struggled a bit for form through the tournament. Players like Hill and Whitehead really stood up today. There were a couple of decisions that went against us the two charge down for a start. That didn't cost us the game though. We had two great chances the one were Watkins doesn't pass early enough and the one at the end were JM kicks instead of the inside ball. They had the chance to make themselves legends of the game but couldn't quite execute under pressure. That's the difference for me if the Aussies had created those chances I gaurantee they would've took them. Having said that it's the first time I've ever seen the last ten minutes of an international and it's the Aussies who are clinging on. 

[OMEGA]

Granville, Munster, Maloney, J Trbojevic, Cotric, Mitchell, Nappa to name but a few and let’s not forget Campbell-Gillard and McClean who are young 20 something’s 

[jacksy]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Superb effort from everyone especially players who have struggled a bit for form through the tournament. Players like Hill and Whitehead really stood up today. There were a couple of decisions that went against us the two charge down for a start. That didn't cost us the game though. We had two great chances the one were Watkins doesn't pass early enough and the one at the end were JM kicks instead of the inside ball. They had the chance to make themselves legends of the game but couldn't quite execute under pressure. That's the difference for me if the Aussies had created those chances I gaurantee they would've took them. Having said that it's the first time I've ever seen the last ten minutes of an international and it's the Aussies who are clinging on. 

The JM kick didn't natter.Touchie had already called a forward pass.

[jacksy]

1 minute ago, OMEGA said:

Granville, Munster, Maloney, J Trbojevic, Cotric, Mitchell, Nappa to name but a few and let’s not forget Campbell-Gillard and McClean who are young 20 something’s 

Not one of those names strikes fear in your heart..like Thurston, Smith, Cronk or Slater.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, jacksy said:

The JM kick didn't natter.Touchie had already called a forward pass.

Had he I thought it was miles forward but we'd got away with it. 

[DoubleD]

Just now, jacksy said:

Not one of those names strikes fear in your heart..like Thurston, Smith, Cronk or Slater.

Mitchell Moses could well fill one of those shoes, but Smith will certainly be the biggest loss

[jacksy]

Just now, bobbruce said:

Had he I thought it was miles forward but we'd got away with it. 

Yeah he did watch the replay.

[OMEGA]

Just now, jacksy said:

Not one of those names strikes fear in your heart..like Thurston, Smith, Cronk or Slater.

Neither did the names Thurston, Smith, Cronk or Slater until they’d pulled on the Test shirt and burned us a few times.

[jacksy]

Just now, DoubleD said:

Mitchell Moses could well fill one of those shoes, but Smith will certainly be the biggest loss

As i said future Kangaroos have not and are not getting in because of those four.

We can only wait and see.

[bobbruce]

Just now, DoubleD said:

Mitchell Moses could well fill one of those shoes, but Smith will certainly be the biggest loss

Not a chance. He may well play for Aussie but he won't be up there as an all time great. There's a few with potential like Cameron Munster who could go on to compare to them but he's a long way off yet. What I don't see is a hooker anywhere near replacing Smith. The problem is Smith is that good he can probably play until he's forty.