2 Dec: RLWC2017 (Final): Australia v England - Match Thread

[bobbruce]

4 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Yeah he did watch the replay.

No I believe you mate I just hadn't seen it. 

[jacksy]

The other issue for the Aussies is the influx of PI's at all levels.

[SilentAssassin]

6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Mitchell Moses could well fill one of those shoes, but Smith will certainly be the biggest loss

he is a very good individual but has a long long way to go to get close to the game management/smarts that that group bring and that will be the biggest problem. Put Moses in for Cronk and say Granville in for Smith today and we win by a margin for me. The athletic individual brilliance will always be available to the Aussie set up in spades of course but they will struggle to replicate what this Queensland spine has brought them in a hurry, we will soon see.

[DoubleD]

5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Not a chance. He may well play for Aussie but he won't be up there as an all time great. There's a few with potential like Cameron Munster who could go on to compare to them but he's a long way off yet. What I don't see is a hooker anywhere near replacing Smith. The problem is Smith is that good he can probably play until he's forty. 

Time will tell with Moses, he’s still young and raw but he has X factor. I agree about Munster, think he’s better than Morgan who is fairly ordinary but has a decent short kicking game

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

On a different day we would have won today. The number of times we came up with errors at the start of sets or at the wrong time was, IMO, the deciding factor.

Taking nothing away from Australia (they were fantastic) but I think our lads will be kicking themselves as they know they did enough to win but didn’t have the composure when it mattered. I don’t think they will feel like the Australians beat them but rather they missed an opportunity. That must hurt so much more.

We failed to complete twice as many sets as they did and yet we were still ultra competitive.

Great game and a great effort. Proud even in defeat.

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

1 hour ago, Trojan said:

Is Hardaker excluded permanently then?  IMO he would truly have made a difference had he been available.

Hardaker should never be mentioned in the context of England ever again!

IF he can find an employer once his ban is over and IF he retains the ability/form he has shown this year - it would be impossible to ever trust the fool again.

He has proven time and time and time again he cannot be trusted. He let Leeds down over and over and we repeatedly embraced him back into the fold until finally we had enough. He then took Cas to the brink of champions and dismantled the lot through his own selfishness. He ruined the Grand Final as a spectacle. Cut it up however you want but even as a Leeds fan I wanted to beat the real Castleford and not the shell of a team that turned up.

As an England fan I am also livid that we trusted him again after kicking him out of camp previously. We planned to have him in the WC and in a game as close as today he could have been the difference.

He simply cannot be trusted and more fool any club that takes him on.

[silcoates]

2 hours ago, Piggy's mate said:

Excellent effort from the England lads a real physical mash-up. We'll av em next time 

I've been saying that since at hull in 82.

Good job for the Dewsbury lads else we would have been murdered-eh piggy.

[MattSantos]

Argh... the smallest of margins. I hate rugby league 

[Trojan]

5 minutes ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

Hardaker should never be mentioned in the context of England ever again!

IF he can find an employer once his ban is over and IF he retains the ability/form he has shown this year - it would be impossible to ever trust the fool again.

He has proven time and time and time again he cannot be trusted. He let Leeds down over and over and we repeatedly embraced him back into the fold until finally we had enough. He then took Cas to the brink of champions and dismantled the lot through his own selfishness. He ruined the Grand Final as a spectacle. Cut it up however you want but even as a Leeds fan I wanted to beat the real Castleford and not the shell of a team that turned up.

As an England fan I am also livid that we trusted him again after kicking him out of camp previously. We planned to have him in the WC and in a game as close as today he could have been the difference.

He simply cannot be trusted and more fool any club that takes him on.

He'll be coming back to Fev then

[John Rhino]

1 hour ago, Trojan said:

I'd agree.  But IMO he was the best available.  In that last 20 mins we needed someone with a bit of guile.  But who?

Did you watch McGuire in the GF? A half back masterclass in game control 

[Trojan]

1 minute ago, John Rhino said:

Did you watch McGuire in the GF? A half back masterclass in game control 

Yes, but as has been posted above Leeds weren't playing the real Castleford.  Don't think McGuire could live with the Aussies at his age..  In fact I think he'd better watch out with HKR, I reckon there'll be one or two looking for some revenge on Mr McGuire.

[John Fisher]

"The number of times we came up with errors at the start of sets or at the wrong time was, IMO, the deciding factor" 

And that is why Australia always end up beating England. International sport in particular is about fine margins. You wouldn't see an Australian full back drop a high ball when under no pressure, for example

[DavidM]

Oh the Aussie media are going  on Graham’s ‘ foul mouth spray ‘ on Smith . Any insinuation on him being anything other than a paragon of sporting virtue is just out of order , and it’s only the mic on the pitch now picking this age old stuff up

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

18 minutes ago, silcoates said:

I've been saying that since at hull in 82.

Good job for the Dewsbury lads else we would have been murdered-eh piggy.

I will stick my neck out regarding the Dewsbury lads and say they should not be considered automatically on the team sheet anymore. The twins are full or errors and Sam seems to lose some of his cool composure and discipline when he pulls on the England jersey.

Sam is certainly our talisman and has the admiration of not only the fans but even the players. If you look at his stats though he does come up with more than his fair share of errors and/or penalties which can often undo lots of his good work.

[Dave T]

I dont think Brown deserves some of the stick he is getting here (and I have been very critical of him this year) - apart from the move on the short side him abd Gale put on in the first half i thought he did little wrong.

He has little real flair but he helped our structure, remembering that we had 2 ball players missing.

As much as i thought Gale and Widdop were good, they were both guilty of some shocking errors which had bigger impacts than anything Brown did.

Interesting stats - Roby 56 tackles and Whitehead 55. Take a bow lads.

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Oh the Aussie media are going  on Graham’s ‘ foul mouth spray ‘ on Smith . Any insinuation on him being anything other than a paragon of sporting virtue is just out of order , and it’s only the mic on the pitch now picking this age old stuff up

Well don't have referees miked up then. They cant have microphones on referees and not expect them to pick up a bit of industrial language.

[PrintHelloWorld]

8 minutes ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

I will stick my neck out regarding the Dewsbury lads and say they should not be considered automatically on the team sheet anymore. The twins are full or errors and Sam seems to lose some of his cool composure and discipline when he pulls on the England jersey.

Sam is certainly our talisman and has the admiration of not only the fans but even the players. If you look at his stats though he does come up with more than his fair share of errors and/or penalties which can often undo lots of his good work.

He gave away one penalty and made zero errors today according to the stats. People seem to decide what they want to see and work backwards.

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well don't have referees miked up then. They cant have microphones on referees and not expect them to pick up a bit of industrial language.

Exactly 

[DavidM]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I dont think Brown deserves some of the stick he is getting here (and I have been very critical of him this year) - apart from the move on the short side him abd Gale put on in the first half i thought he did little wrong.

He has little real flair but he helped our structure, remembering that we had 2 ball players missing.

As much as i thought Gale and Widdop were good, they were both guilty of some shocking errors which had bigger impacts than anything Brown did.

Interesting stats - Roby 56 tackles and Whitehead 55. Take a bow lads.

Phenomenal stats , and in a brutal game physically 

[Trojan]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I dont think Brown deserves some of the stick he is getting here (and I have been very critical of him this year) - apart from the move on the short side him abd Gale put on in the first half i thought he did little wrong.

He has little real flair but he helped our structure, remembering that we had 2 ball players missing.

As much as i thought Gale and Widdop were good, they were both guilty of some shocking errors which had bigger impacts than anything Brown did.

Interesting stats - Roby 56 tackles and Whitehead 55. Take a bow lads.

I also thought Chris Hill has the best game I've seen him have in an England jersey.  TBH I was saying at the beginning of the game I didn't know how he kept getting picked, but I thought he had an excellent game.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I would not criticise any of the squad. They played as well as, indeed better than, we could ever have expected over the last 6 weeks. This last game was a defeat unlike many we have had, and indeed better than a few defeats, in that it was repeatable and can be improved upon. We had to make do in the halves, at 13 in the final and in the centres. But we have players who can step up to all of those positions. We now know what level we need to reach, and that is a vital piece of information in any human endeavour.

I think that this has been a slightly lost generation, as each of Tomkins (who may be back), Eastmond (shame he retired from sport) and Sam B (never the same since he ditched our game) could all have been in their prime now. 

But, Ward can be a world class 13, Sam T may get his act together, Percival and Gildart  are both international class players in the making, while Williams has time on his side... 

The Aussies will not drop below this level. But we can lift. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

Incidentally, if we are looking to save money, the only NRL player who is essential to us next year is Widdop (though Whitehead and S Burgess could still do a good job). Taylor, Watts etc can replace the NRL props, no problem. And Clark can under study Roby. 

[Damien]

I thought all the starting forwards were absolutely fantastic really, they all played out of their skin. Whitehead for me was just immense.

[DavidM]

Come to the fore in the big ones hasn’t he . Be interested what the view on Currie is though , did he make the impact we were expecting ? I’m not sure physically he looks quite this level yet , maybe his lack of a gallop this season a factor 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Come to the fore in the big ones hasn’t he . Be interested what the view on Currie is though , did he make the impact we were expecting ? I’m not sure physically he looks quite this level yet , maybe his lack of a gallop this season a factor 

Yeah he certainly has, last week he was great too. On Currie I agree as well, throughout the tournament he has looked a bit weak and lightweight to me.