2 Dec: RLWC2017 (Final): Australia v England - Match Thread

[Forestgravy]

When Smith is retiring. Roby is the best Hooker in the game by far. He is class.

[Lowdesert]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I thought all the starting forwards were absolutely fantastic really, they all played out of their skin. Whitehead for me was just immense.

Does a lot of graft, puts himself on the line and good hands.  I think the concussion rules went into the bin when him and Graham were hit.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would not criticise any of the squad. They played as well as, indeed better than, we could ever have expected over the last 6 weeks. This last game was a defeat unlike many we have had, and indeed better than a few defeats, in that it was repeatable and can be improved upon. We had to make do in the halves, at 13 in the final and in the centres. But we have players who can step up to all of those positions. We now know what level we need to reach, and that is a vital piece of information in any human endeavour.

I think that this has been a slightly lost generation, as each of Tomkins (who may be back), Eastmond (shame he retired from sport) and Sam B (never the same since he ditched our game) could all have been in their prime now. 

But, Ward can be a world class 13, Sam T may get his act together, Percival and Gildart  are both international class players in the making, while Williams has time on his side... 

The Aussies will not drop below this level. But we can lift. 

Spoy on and my comments on Widdop and Gale were not to criticise as i thought they all gavr it their all, it was more to defend Brown who did little wrong (but didnt win us the game either).

They all did the best they could and you have to suck up the errors, thats sport.

I agree that we can get better there. I thought the Aussies did very well, did their completions and did little wrong - in previous games we would have had 40 points stuck on us by that team.

Im starting counting down to 2021 now, and the next three years should ve 100% about getting this England team playing together regularly, testing themselves and ready to win the next World Cup in frony of huge crowds.

[snapski]

25 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would not criticise any of the squad. They played as well as, indeed better than, we could ever have expected over the last 6 weeks. This last game was a defeat unlike many we have had, and indeed better than a few defeats, in that it was repeatable and can be improved upon. We had to make do in the halves, at 13 in the final and in the centres. But we have players who can step up to all of those positions. We now know what level we need to reach, and that is a vital piece of information in any human endeavour.

I think that this has been a slightly lost generation, as each of Tomkins (who may be back), Eastmond (shame he retired from sport) and Sam B (never the same since he ditched our game) could all have been in their prime now. 

But, Ward can be a world class 13, Sam T may get his act together, Percival and Gildart  are both international class players in the making, while Williams has time on his side... 

The Aussies will not drop below this level. But we can lift. 

Adam Milner is a better 13 than Ward. He was immense last season.

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yeah he certainly has, last week he was great too. On Currie I agree as well, throughout the tournament he has looked a bit weak and lightweight to me.

I was pleased with Currie overall but I think he is a bit too passive yet. At Warrington he gets a lot of attacking opportunity but for England he is getting pushed out by more experienced players - id have liked him to have a bit more of a swagger as he could have far more dangerous than the likes of Sam Burgess.

Hopefully he will grow from this because he does have the talent.

[DoubleD]

51 minutes ago, John Fisher said:

"The number of times we came up with errors at the start of sets or at the wrong time was, IMO, the deciding factor" 

And that is why Australia always end up beating England. International sport in particular is about fine margins. You wouldn't see an Australian full back drop a high ball when under no pressure, for example

Slater dropped one earlier in the tournament similar to this, against France I think, they are not immune 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I was pleased with Currie overall but I think he is a bit too passive yet. At Warrington he gets a lot of attacking opportunity but for England he is getting pushed out by more experienced players - id have liked him to have a bit more of a swagger as he could have far more dangerous than the likes of Sam Burgess.

Hopefully he will grow from this because he does have the talent.

I'm not really knocking him as he's still young and has missed a lot of Rugby. I just think he showed it at times in contact but that said he didn't do any glaring errors either.

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not really knocking him as he's still young and has missed a lot of Rugby. I just think he showed it at times in contact but that said he didn't do any glaring errors either.

I know mate, i was agreeing somewhat just adding more thoughts.

I think he was solid when he could have been spectacular.

[brassey]

 biggest mistake we made was not takeing the 2 points on offer if had been 6-6 tight game get points on board and ball back

[brassey]

dont matter one bit  what who played this and that are own mistakes cost us the game and a decent rugby brain to take the points on offer when they come along

 

[Chrispmartha]

52 minutes ago, snapski said:

Adam Milner is a better 13 than Ward. He was immense last season.

Yet was totally outclassed by Ward (with a recently dislocated shoulder) when it mattered.

Ward IMO has test match player written all over him, skillfull and as tough as nails

[Trojan]

14 minutes ago, brassey said:

 biggest mistake we made was not takeing the 2 points on offer if had been 6-6 tight game get points on board and ball back

I have since thought that. Fev lost a tight game early last season v Rochdale by turning down at least three penalties under the sticks, they lost by the odd point. I know the current conventional wisdom is to keep the pressure on, but if the Aussies were aware that any indiscretion in their own twenty might cost two points, perhaps they'd have felt under more pressure.  Who can tell?  Arguably, as the cricketers say, we could have got 'em in ones!

[CiderWire]

Just finished watching this on catch up as I've been working all day. I must say that I'm immensely proud of our boys and I  believe firmly that we have now proved to all n sundry that we have a squad of players who are on par with their Aussie counterparts. A bit of composure is all we needed on occasion but my word the intensity was never lacking.

As for the officials, I think they were pretty darn good, some calls went for us and some against. 

A great game........the greatest game.

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

1 hour ago, PrintHelloWorld said:

He gave away one penalty and made zero errors today according to the stats. People seem to decide what they want to see and work backwards.

OK so not wanting to dig out Sam, my only comment was that he should no longer be guaranteed a starting jersey…….

Sam came up with an error once in every 11 carries during the WC. The team without his contributions averaged an error every 15 carries.

His average metre gain in the four games he played ranked 8th, 14th, 9th and 7^th in the England team.

In those games and compared to the other strike forwards: -

Graham averaged more metres per carry in 3 out of the 4 games.
Hill 3 out of the 4 games.
Walmsley 3 out of 3 games – he didn’t play the first.
Tom Burgess 4 out of 4 games.
Currie 4 out of 4 games.

The only 8/10/11/12 he outperformed in this regard was Whitehead who only averaged more in 1 out of the 4 games.

I have been underwhelmed by his performances that’s all. I like the guy, I wish he was at my club but on his performances he does not warrant a guaranteed starting spot anymore IMO.

Welcome to the forum PrintHelloWorld

[Futtocks]

A reminder: highlights on BBC2 at 6pm, followed by a full replay on FreeSports at 7pm.

Now I've calmed down and accepted the result, I wonder if it'll look different on a second viewing.

[Niels]

I really enjoyed the game and reading the comments on here which are always very informative.

I thought Australia defended their lead superbly - I read they never conceded any points in the second half of the games? I think this has taken defence to a new level where now one try can be enough to win a game. 

I thought Australia and the Southern Hemisphere nations staged a wonderful tournament. All nations played their part and had moments. 

As usual comments on the board were very in depth and interesting.

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

1 hour ago, snapski said:

Adam Milner is a better 13 than Ward. He was immense last season.

Snapski, I like Cas almost as much as you do and I get being loyal to your players but seriously if it were down to you it would have been a Cas v Australia final today.

Milner played well last year in a very well drilled machine, just like Shenton, Eden, and McShane et al.

All of which you have repeatedly said are better than those chosen to be in Oz as well as the travesty of McMeeken not even warming the bench or the injustice of Gale getting stick when clearly he’s the best player at the World Cup.

My team are the champions and yet the Wire had more players starting today and twice as many in the squad! Now that is a travesty!  

[DoubleD]

Wrong thread 

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, brassey said:

 biggest mistake we made was not takeing the 2 points on offer if had been 6-6 tight game get points on board and ball back

No one ever kicks for penalties when 6-0 down, ridiculous idea 

[Ullman]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Does a lot of graft, puts himself on the line and good hands.  I think the concussion rules went into the bin when him and Graham were hit.

The queue of Aussies that formed in the first tackle on Graham reminded me of that scene in Airplane.

[Ullman]

2 hours ago, DavidM said:

Oh the Aussie media are going  on Graham’s ‘ foul mouth spray ‘ on Smith . Any insinuation on him being anything other than a paragon of sporting virtue is just out of order , and it’s only the mic on the pitch now picking this age old stuff up

Came over loud and clear in the pub.

I thought Old Frightful had been short changed at the bar.

[Ullman]

3 hours ago, silcoates said:

I've been saying that since at hull in 82.

Good job for the Dewsbury lads else we would have been murdered-eh piggy.

Also about as long as we've been saying we'll be all right when (insert name of Kangaroo legend here) retires. 

[Damien]

I've just watched the game again on Premier to hear the Ozzie perspective. Interestingly on quite a few occasions the Australian commentators were calling for penalties and 50/50 decisions for England that weren't given. 

In addition after about 65 mins, when England had forced a drop out and Australia were shattered and on the ropes, Australia were seemingly allowed to take an unofficial timeout to recover. From the ball being grounded by Morgan they were allowed 1m 10secs to take the drop out. Never seen a team allowed to take that long before. 

[Lowdesert]

14 minutes ago, Ullman said:

The queue of Aussies that formed in the first tackle on Graham reminded me of that scene in Airplane.

I thought you’d gone into hibernation!  

Despite that head clash, he led from the front.

[Ullman]

1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

I thought you’d gone into hibernation!  

Despite that head clash, he led from the front.

I've been that wrapped in the World Cup and catching up with all the games recorded on the Sky box I've been about forty pages behind the pace every time I've logged on and ended up not bothering.

I think I've seen every game. I've loved it.