England v Kiwis in Denver 2018

[Bramstein]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Do you really think a cash strapped NZRL is going to turn down a possible $500,000?, which is a damn site more than they could ever earn playing England at home, if they weren't forced to?

I have no idea mate. To be honest I think it's an exciting prospect what's being said. I'm just trying to provoke a critical discussion about it rather than the polarised discussion we're once again heading for that if we don't take the offer we're a backward sport that gets what it deserves on the one hand and we should stick to what we know on the other.

You are making an assumption as you have no idea what the split of the crowd was the games where NZ played Samoa and Tonga. If you were to provide some hard facts on the other hand As another contributor has said already the crowd for NZ v Scotland in Christchurch was pretty impressive. 

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Maori all blacks v USA got 18,000 at soilder field last year.

I think if we are serious about the 2025 WC we need to create some sort of foot print in a couple of targeted cities in the years to come.

Americans love a sporting event. Do it properly and you could easily match the above figure. What is better between 15,000 at Mt Smart 20,000 at Hull or 18,000 in Denver with a $500,000 kicker

62,000 for Ireland v New Zealand last November.... bigger test granted and Irish "ex pats" but if you build it etc

[MatthewWoody]

Good way to promote the game. In addition to this, it's helps with logistics as Denver can be easy to reach for both teams. 

[Big Picture]

Just now, MatthewWoody said:

Good way to promote the game. In addition to this, it's helps with logistics as Denver can be easy to reach for both teams. 

They could get former Jacksonville Axeman and University of Colorado linebacker Akarika Dawn to help promote it there too.

[Mattrhino]

3 minutes ago, JonNgog said:

and Canada just got their biggest ever rugby crowd for a game against the Maoris. people underestimate their appeal, especially if you can promote things like the Haka and make a big event of it.

Get some of the Polynesian Denver Broncos players meeting the Kiwi's on ESPN in the lead up for the game. 

[Mattrhino]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

62,000 for Ireland v New Zealand last November.... bigger test granted and Irish "ex pats" but if you build it etc

I think that is a little ambitious, but if you can get 18k for a reserve NZ side vs an amateur USA team I don't think we should be scared of being able to get a crowd.

[Jace]

20 minutes ago, JonNgog said:

except their support was on par with Australia and considerably bigger than Tonga/Samoa when you leave the Auckland region.

The game is hardly supported outside of Auckland. What was the crowd attendance at the Kiwis vs Fiji quarter final?

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

You are making an assumption as you have no idea what the split of the crowd was the games where NZ played Samoa and Tonga. If you were to provide some hard facts on the other hand As another contributor has said already the crowd for NZ v Scotland in Christchurch was pretty impressive. 

What do you want, me to conduct a survey of each person in the crowd as they walked in? It was widely acknowledged that when New Zealand played Tonga and Samoa that there were far more Tongan and Samoan fans than New Zealand. It was also plainly evident watching the matches. If you are trying to argue otherwise you are just being a pedant. Likewise people saying discount Auckland, its a third of the population and the main Rugby League area but people want to discount it haha.

A crowd of 12,000 impressive? Come on really. Anyway that was obviously because there were loads of NZ people of Scottish descent who were there to watch Scotland - prove otherwise (See I can play that game too ). Tonga played England in front of a capacity 30k crowd and the largest RL crowd at that venue. Why haven't the kiwi's ever got that?

[Bramstein]

2 minutes ago, Jace said:

The game is hardly supported outside of Auckland. What was the crowd attendance at the Kiwis vs Fiji quarter final?

Over 25,000 turned up for the 4N final in 2014 v Australia. 

Hope that helps.

[Bramstein]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

What do you want, me to conduct a survey of each person in the crowd as they walked in? It was widely acknowledged that when New Zealand played Tonga and Samoa that there were far more Tongan and Samoan fans than New Zealand. It was also plainly evident watching the matches. If you are trying to argue otherwise you are just being a pedant. Likewise people saying discount Auckland, its a third of the population and the main Rugby League area but people want to discount it haha.

A crowd of 12,000 impressive? Come on really. Anyway that was obviously because there were loads of NZ people of Scottish descent who were there to watch Scotland (See I can play that game too ). Tonga played England in front of a capacity 30k crowd and the largest RL crowd at that venue. Why haven't the kiwi's ever got that?

What are you banging on about? You made the comment that the Kiwi support is poor. I'm simply pointing out you're just saying that based on a hunch. If you could get the survey to me by lunch that would be great  

I've just provided an example of the Kiwi's getting over 25,000 3 years ago.

[Scubby]

June in Denver then "Back home again" for the Autumn series?

[Damien]

Just now, Bramstein said:

What are you banging on about? You made the comment that the Kiwi support is poor. I'm simply pointing out you're just saying that based on a hunch. If you could get the survey to me by lunch that would be great  

I've just provided an example of the Kiwi's getting over 25,000 3 years ago.

And in the same tournament against England they got 15,863.

[Jace]

This turns into an echo chamber really quickly. Do any of you actually know what the sporting landscape is like in America? All I see are pipe dreams and delusion. Have Polynesian NFL players meet the Kiwis on ESPN in the buildup? What is that going to do? What in the world am I reading here lol

Also you cannot use the crowds the All Blacks got or Maori All Blacks for that matter as an estimation of what the crowd might be like for this. The All Blacks have more pulling power than both of these teams. Besides, AIG did a lot of marketing in the lead up to those Chicago tests  

[RP London]

8 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

I think that is a little ambitious, but if you can get 18k for a reserve NZ side vs an amateur USA team I don't think we should be scared of being able to get a crowd.

oh it would be ambitious to think we would get 62k but I like a bit of ambition... I would, however, scale it down a bit to take away the Irish angle and the "best in the world" angle too but think 30-35k is very possible for a properly pushed match between 2 of the top nations in one of the "toughest sports in the world".. etc I recon middle of the summer somewhere like Denver it could really catch the imagination

[Jace]

5 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

Over 25,000 turned up for the 4N final in 2014 v Australia. 

Hope that helps.

And nearly 10k short of capacity. Their quarter final at the same stadium just got 12,713, a large percentage of which were Fijian supporters. I hope that helps 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Jace said:

And nearly 10k short of capacity. Their quarter final at the same stadium just got 12,713, a large percentage of which were Fijian supporters. I hope that helps 

I’m sure there were plenty of reasons for being short of capacity though ???

[Dave T]

I think all major nations at least sgould be playing a couple of home games a year as standard.

After that, knock yourselves out.

I like the idea of genuinely seeing what we can do in Usa though.

[Bramstein]

11 minutes ago, Jace said:

This turns into an echo chamber really quickly. Do any of you actually know what the sporting landscape is like in America? All I see are pipe dreams and delusion. Have Polynesian NFL players meet the Kiwis on ESPN in the buildup? What is that going to do? What in the world am I reading here lol

Also you cannot use the crowds the All Blacks got or Maori All Blacks for that matter as an estimation of what the crowd might be like for this. The All Blacks have more pulling power than both of these teams. Besides, AIG did a lot of marketing in the lead up to those Chicago tests  

For all we've just disagreed with one another over Kiwi interest, I completely agree with this post, ha ha.

My argument for playing New Zealand in New Zealand is largely predicated on what you are saying here.

However, your comment about the 4N final being short of capacity is neither here nor there. You made the claim that there's no interest outside of Auckland. Quite clearly there is.

 

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 minutes ago, Jace said:

This turns into an echo chamber really quickly. Do any of you actually know what the sporting landscape is like in America? All I see are pipe dreams and delusion. Have Polynesian NFL players meet the Kiwis on ESPN in the buildup? What is that going to do? What in the world am I reading here lol

Also you cannot use the crowds the All Blacks got or Maori All Blacks for that matter as an estimation of what the crowd might be like for this. The All Blacks have the pulling power than both of these teams. Besides, AIG did a lot of marketing in the lead up to those Chicago tests  

I really don't understand who this is directed at? Perhaps a different thread? Some people's views are that we won't get a crowd in Auckland and we won't get a crowd in Denver. Others believe that we could get a crowd in either place, with professional marketing and imagination. 

Going back to the proposition as stated originally, if the teams are genuinely being offers 1 m USD to play, then I think the best thing for the game would be to play the game there. It sounds to me to be a perfect way to test the appetite for RL, while giving the players a prestigious trip away. Neither team has the full 11 hour jet lag to cope with. I simply cannot see that we have anything to lose.

As none of us yet runs the RFL/NZRL we will simply have to sit tight. 

It does bode well for the seriousness of the people looking to build the NA game. 

[Bramstein]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

And in the same tournament against England they got 15,863.

So at what point are we allowed to say the Kiwi support is good enough to justify a test against them in NZ? You seem to think 12,000 isn't and now appear to be suggesting that just under 16,000 isn't either. No comment on the fact that the final drew over 25,000? Must have been all the Australians eh

 

[Mattrhino]

12 minutes ago, Jace said:

This turns into an echo chamber really quickly. Do any of you actually know what the sporting landscape is like in America? All I see are pipe dreams and delusion. Have Polynesian NFL players meet the Kiwis on ESPN in the buildup? What is that going to do? What in the world am I reading here lol

Also you cannot use the crowds the All Blacks got or Maori All Blacks for that matter as an estimation of what the crowd might be like for this. The All Blacks have more pulling power than both of these teams. Besides, AIG did a lot of marketing in the lead up to those Chicago tests  

Of course it is a bit of dreaming, this is RL afterall and calm down mate this is a discussion board.

What will getting a team on a national broadcaster meeting players from the biggest sporting organisation in the world do!? hmmmm

I must be dreaming when I see NFL players wearing Chelsea tops visiting PL training grounds on Sky to promote the NFL London games.

[Jace]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I really don't understand who this is directed at? Perhaps a different thread? Some people's views are that we won't get a crowd in Auckland and we won't get a crowd in Denver. Others believe that we could get a crowd in either place, with professional marketing and imagination. 

Going back to the proposition as stated originally, if the teams are genuinely being offers 1 m USD to play, then I think the best thing for the game would be to play the game there. It sounds to me to be a perfect way to test the appetite for RL, while giving the players a prestigious trip away. Neither team has the full 11 hour jet lag to cope with. I simply cannot see that we have anything to lose.

As none of us yet runs the RFL/NZRL we will simply have to sit tight. 

It does bode well for the seriousness of the people looking to build the NA game. 

It's aimed at some of the suggestions in here. The main point being that what works in one country won't necessarily work in another, and definitely not America 

[Jace]

7 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Of course it is a bit of dreaming, this is RL afterall and calm down mate this is a discussion board.

What will getting a team on a national broadcaster meeting players from the biggest sporting organisation in the world do!? hmmmm

I must be dreaming when I see NFL players wearing Chelsea tops visiting PL training grounds on Sky to promote the NFL London games.

Again that may work in England but why would it work in America? Why would the NFL help rugby league when they're appealing to the same type of sports fan? 

[RP London]

19 minutes ago, Jace said:

This turns into an echo chamber really quickly. Do any of you actually know what the sporting landscape is like in America? All I see are pipe dreams and delusion. Have Polynesian NFL players meet the Kiwis on ESPN in the buildup? What is that going to do? What in the world am I reading here lol

Also you cannot use the crowds the All Blacks got or Maori All Blacks for that matter as an estimation of what the crowd might be like for this. The All Blacks have more pulling power than both of these teams. Besides, AIG did a lot of marketing in the lead up to those Chicago tests  

I seriously doubt someone investing $1m is going to do nothing to help get people in though..

 

[Jace]

12 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

For all we've just disagreed with one another over Kiwi interest, I completely agree with this post, ha ha.

My argument for playing New Zealand in New Zealand is largely predicated on what you are saying here.

However, your comment about the 4N final being short of capacity is neither here nor there. You made the claim that there's no interest outside of Auckland. Quite clearly there is.

 

I think the poor run that the Kiwis have been on hasn't helped in any way. When they become the Kiwis of old again, only then will we see the support return