Paul Rowley on BBC Radio Manchester

[clogdance]

RayCee,  remember licensing ? We had 6 years of it here in the UK, where no matter how good you were in the championship (or whatever it was called back then) you could only get relegated to the league below. And it will return, it's just a question of when, not if. Then every Championship club and a few League One clubs, will be dual registered with SL clubs. Happy Days !!

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

OK , so tommorrow morning SL announce that they dont think expansion into NA is the best way to move forward , instead they are going to promote Toulouse and London and then actively look to finance new SL clubs in Edinburgh,Dublin,Cardiff and Paris

However Toronto are welcome to remain in the Championship but will never be considered for SL

Youd be happy with that and continue to support them by attending games and purchasing merchandise ?

I will support the Toronto Wolfpack until they go under or I go under (am dead).  Have already left clear instructions on which kit to put in the casket with me for the cremation.  Not planning on going anywhere soon though.

"Run With The Pack"

[The Future is League]

5 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

I'm not sure the 12 SL chairmen have the ability to look further than the end of the respective noses.  They'll go for the extra £150,000+ each that would result from Toronto forgoing their share of the Sky pie, thinking they've got themselves a right deal. 

They'll be completely blind to the fact that through TWP we could be looking at TV deals worth many times what we currently get from Sky.

Not sure about conferences, I think we're better sticking with a traditional league structure.  Teams will find their level, assuming a fair distribution of the TV monies available.  I don't buy into the argument that only top level rugby is appealing to TV audiences.  With the right coverage and promotion, there's no reason why 2nd and 3rd division games can't be attractive and profitable.  This will be especially true if some of the smaller SL teams like Cas (Sorry!), Widnes, Wakey, Hudds, Salford find themselves dislodged over time by the Torontos, Toulouses, Newcastles and Londons (hopefully) etc of the world.

We could make a small but significant inroad into the sporting conciousness, but not while ever 12 greedy chairmen are holding th game back.

Knowing super league chairman if the Wolf pack were to get into super league they would still want most of the TV deal that the wolf pack negotiated and at the same time not giving the Wolf pack any Sky money

[Kayakman]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Knowing super league chairman if the Wolf pack were to get into super league they would still want most of the TV deal that the wolf pack negotiated and at the same time not giving the Wolf pack any Sky money

Let the Wolfpack in....they (the Chairmen) will attach their banners to us quickly....everybody loves a winner.

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, super major said:

what is a gizmoid

It is for example someone who devoid of ideas takes to insulting, bullying and generally naff ways of responding in real life and on the www.

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

I'm sure he would still support the Wolfpack even if not meriting admittance to SL. 

Not only that he's lucky enough to be where tomorrow and all the fun are!

                                    

[The Parksider]

12 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

I'm not sure the 12 SL chairmen have the ability to look further than the end of the respective noses.  They'll be completely blind to the fact that through TWP we could be looking at TV deals worth many times what we currently get from Sky.

This is the one thing that drives all this Toronto Wolfpack nonsense.

It's totally naive to believe that a load of Leigh players dressed up in Toronto shirts playing at Beer festivals in a country where they hardly play Rugby League is going to attract £Millions of TV money. On what planet are you on?

You have fallen hook line and sinker for one mans boasting two years ago to Dave Woods that this would lead to a Transatlantic league goldmine. That was was Perez, an advertising professional trained to sell stuff to people, good at convincing people his product is the best thing since sliced bread, and I would not mind, but he's actually done a runner.

You and others have stars in your eyes despite him vanishing. The bottom line here is Perez actually went to the TV companies to sell them Toronto Wolfpacks games. They were very sceptical but did a deal that was basically "we show your games and in return you get exposure on TV for your club".  Zero money TV deal.

You and others are blind to the fact Jason Moore killed this idea off early March. He's running the 2025 World cup and he's having none of this Transatlantic league rubbish. He says it will cause  player burnout, and he will go ahead with a proper American league based on the league they already have in the USA and if TWP are serious they will join that, but they need to produce home grown players for the world cup. Canada need to be able to compete.

That they do not have any interest in doing this was 100% their downfall. Noble can bleat all day "how are we expected to do that straight away" that's HIS problem, he signed up to the job.

21 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Parky, in your response to the comment about Toronto and TV deals you state 'why should anyone have interest at all in a Leigh reserve team'. ... one that incidentally beat Leigh's first team, but that is not my point.

The point is that with you following RL you know how Toronto evolved and the link with Leigh.  But the hoped for investors in North America wont be sat at a negotiating table with Toronto and say 'Sorry we refuse to invest in a TV deal with you because your coach and players came from Leigh'.The TV companies will want to know how the game itself will attract viewers.

The TV companies have already met Perez and he got Toronto a TV deal worth nothing so come on Mr. Tiger stop falling for this Multi-Million dollar TV deal rubbish.

When SKY looked to televise Superleague the actual product was there, as were the attendance figures and the TV audience figures. Same in Australia, the product was there and the TV companies knew the numbers, and interest so they did multi-Million pound deals on NRL and SL.

We can only sell TV a product if it exists and the TWP product is worth nothing as we see with their current contract. Perez himself stated that he needed FIVE north American clubs in Superleague up and running before he could even start to negotiate with the TV companies.

Is anyone really serious that we should dump Wakey, Castleford, Fartown, Widnes and HKR out of Superleague and replace them with TWP, Montreal, Quebec, Hamilton and Ottawa so that we are able to go round the TV companies in five years time and say hey - we have a transatlantic anglo-Canadian Rugby League to sell you?? Why on earth would they be interested in that?

I'd guess if anyone was interested they would suggest that places like Weegan or Wah-rington aren't going to excite NA sports fans so "get some USA sides in there and we may have a deal". This is exactly where Perez was going from the start. From day one this was a Trojan Horse.

Fair enough, many fans on here are not businessmen and don't get how it works, but please take a step back before predicting deals worth Hundreds of Millions of pounds way beyond the SKY deal coming from places they don't even play Rugby League. If North American professional Rugby Union can't get a big TV deal with a base of thousands of clubs and a couple of hundred thousand players, and as many again ex-players that included George W Bush and Bill Clinton, then perhaps we should start accepting that american sports TV does not run round in Lorries full of $100 dollar notes looking to dump it on any new game that comes along.

[super major]

4 hours ago, Oxford said:

It is for example someone who devoid of ideas takes to insulting, bullying and generally naff ways of responding in real life and on the www.

 

Are you accusing me of that?

[David Shepherd]

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

This is the one thing that drives all this Toronto Wolfpack nonsense.

It's totally naive to believe that a load of Leigh players dressed up in Toronto shirts playing at Beer festivals in a country where they hardly play Rugby League is going to attract £Millions of TV money. On what planet are you on?

You have fallen hook line and sinker for one mans boasting two years ago to Dave Woods that this would lead to a Transatlantic league goldmine. That was was Perez, an advertising professional trained to sell stuff to people, good at convincing people his product is the best thing since sliced bread, and I would not mind, but he's actually done a runner.

You and others have stars in your eyes despite him vanishing. The bottom line here is Perez actually went to the TV companies to sell them Toronto Wolfpacks games. They were very sceptical but did a deal that was basically "we show your games and in return you get exposure on TV for your club".  Zero money TV deal.

You and others are blind to the fact Jason Moore killed this idea off early March. He's running the 2025 World cup and he's having none of this Transatlantic league rubbish. He says it will cause  player burnout, and he will go ahead with a proper American league based on the league they already have in the USA and if TWP are serious they will join that, but they need to produce home grown players for the world cup. Canada need to be able to compete.

That they do not have any interest in doing this was 100% their downfall. Noble can bleat all day "how are we expected to do that straight away" that's HIS problem, he signed up to the job.

The TV companies have already met Perez and he got Toronto a TV deal worth nothing so come on Mr. Tiger stop falling for this Multi-Million dollar TV deal rubbish.

When SKY looked to televise Superleague the actual product was there, as were the attendance figures and the TV audience figures. Same in Australia, the product was there and the TV companies knew the numbers, and interest so they did multi-Million pound deals on NRL and SL.

We can only sell TV a product if it exists and the TWP product is worth nothing as we see with their current contract. Perez himself stated that he needed FIVE north American clubs in Superleague up and running before he could even start to negotiate with the TV companies.

Is anyone really serious that we should dump Wakey, Castleford, Fartown, Widnes and HKR out of Superleague and replace them with TWP, Montreal, Quebec, Hamilton and Ottawa so that we are able to go round the TV companies in five years time and say hey - we have a transatlantic anglo-Canadian Rugby League to sell you?? Why on earth would they be interested in that?

I'd guess if anyone was interested they would suggest that places like Weegan or Wah-rington aren't going to excite NA sports fans so "get some USA sides in there and we may have a deal". This is exactly where Perez was going from the start. From day one this was a Trojan Horse.

Fair enough, many fans on here are not businessmen and don't get how it works, but please take a step back before predicting deals worth Hundreds of Millions of pounds way beyond the SKY deal coming from places they don't even play Rugby League. If North American professional Rugby Union can't get a big TV deal with a base of thousands of clubs and a couple of hundred thousand players, and as many again ex-players that included George W Bush and Bill Clinton, then perhaps we should start accepting that american sports TV does not run round in Lorries full of $100 dollar notes looking to dump it on any new game that comes along.

You're definitely a glass half empty kind of bloke.

No vision, no optimisum and no desire to see the game progress.

And if you look closely, no one is falling for anything. We're talking POTENTIAL.  Look it up in the dictionary.

[Adelaide Tiger]

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

This is the one thing that drives all this Toronto Wolfpack nonsense.

It's totally naive to believe that a load of Leigh players dressed up in Toronto shirts playing at Beer festivals in a country where they hardly play Rugby League is going to attract £Millions of TV money. On what planet are you on?

You have fallen hook line and sinker for one mans boasting two years ago to Dave Woods that this would lead to a Transatlantic league goldmine. That was was Perez, an advertising professional trained to sell stuff to people, good at convincing people his product is the best thing since sliced bread, and I would not mind, but he's actually done a runner.

You and others have stars in your eyes despite him vanishing. The bottom line here is Perez actually went to the TV companies to sell them Toronto Wolfpacks games. They were very sceptical but did a deal that was basically "we show your games and in return you get exposure on TV for your club".  Zero money TV deal.

You and others are blind to the fact Jason Moore killed this idea off early March. He's running the 2025 World cup and he's having none of this Transatlantic league rubbish. He says it will cause  player burnout, and he will go ahead with a proper American league based on the league they already have in the USA and if TWP are serious they will join that, but they need to produce home grown players for the world cup. Canada need to be able to compete.

That they do not have any interest in doing this was 100% their downfall. Noble can bleat all day "how are we expected to do that straight away" that's HIS problem, he signed up to the job.

The TV companies have already met Perez and he got Toronto a TV deal worth nothing so come on Mr. Tiger stop falling for this Multi-Million dollar TV deal rubbish.

When SKY looked to televise Superleague the actual product was there, as were the attendance figures and the TV audience figures. Same in Australia, the product was there and the TV companies knew the numbers, and interest so they did multi-Million pound deals on NRL and SL.

We can only sell TV a product if it exists and the TWP product is worth nothing as we see with their current contract. Perez himself stated that he needed FIVE north American clubs in Superleague up and running before he could even start to negotiate with the TV companies.

Is anyone really serious that we should dump Wakey, Castleford, Fartown, Widnes and HKR out of Superleague and replace them with TWP, Montreal, Quebec, Hamilton and Ottawa so that we are able to go round the TV companies in five years time and say hey - we have a transatlantic anglo-Canadian Rugby League to sell you?? Why on earth would they be interested in that?

I'd guess if anyone was interested they would suggest that places like Weegan or Wah-rington aren't going to excite NA sports fans so "get some USA sides in there and we may have a deal". This is exactly where Perez was going from the start. From day one this was a Trojan Horse.

Fair enough, many fans on here are not businessmen and don't get how it works, but please take a step back before predicting deals worth Hundreds of Millions of pounds way beyond the SKY deal coming from places they don't even play Rugby League. If North American professional Rugby Union can't get a big TV deal with a base of thousands of clubs and a couple of hundred thousand players, and as many again ex-players that included George W Bush and Bill Clinton, then perhaps we should start accepting that american sports TV does not run round in Lorries full of $100 dollar notes looking to dump it on any new game that comes along.

Wow, what a tome you have posted to my response.

First I think you are patronising by stating 'many fans on here are not businessmen and dont get how it works'. I started a business from scratch that is doing rather well but I do not consider my comments to be worth more than others.

You bag TWP for only having a deal - after 1 year of existence-  that shows their games without any TV income.  However in a later paragraph you acknowledge that the original model stated it needed up to 5 NA clubs before negotiations could realistically begin.  So why not wait 5 years to see if this eventuates?

You are correct in saying that you have to have product that exists.  SL does exist and if TWP do achieve promotion then it MIGHT open doors to larger income streams.

You appear to favour the approach of Jason Moore - and I would welcome a fully pro NA league - but you have been rather vocal over many months saying a full time pro NA league could kill SL if it succeeded.

Also please note that I have never stated anything about deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars - those are words you have typed in.

 

 

[Krzzystuff]

On 3/23/2018 at 9:20 PM, ojx said:

Because they can only beat Rochdale with some dodgy refereeing. As much as it pains me to say it, they are not at SL level by a long way.

come now Ojx!

Yes it was a much tougher game then anyone expected but there were doggy calls for both teams at the end. They punch our guy and we have two sin binned? 

also we had players that weren't in the 19 man squad because they were ill actually playing the game because we had more illness and injuries right before or at the start of the game. 6 props on the field because we didn't have anyone else. Champions win games that they shouldn't and we did that last week. You will likely never again see Bussey make a break like that again in his career...hes pretty fast for a big man that isn't supposed to be fast.

I can't wait to see what we can do when we finally have a fully fit 1st choice lineup on the filed. RL is all about peaking at the business end of the season so cheers to us doing that!

[Oxford]

6 hours ago, super major said:

Are you accusing me of that?

Why on earth would you ask that?

 

[super major]

15 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Why on earth would you ask that?

 

Well, your post could infer that.

Happy you don't. I don't claim to be right but I wouldn't want to be misunderstood

[Oxford]

10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

This is the one thing that drives all this Toronto Wolfpack nonsense.

The one thing that drives Parky is the need to write War and Peace plus Finnegan's Wake and stick'em together  just to say how much he hates the idea of TWP. What's not to love?

[GUBRATS]

19 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I will support the Toronto Wolfpack until they go under or I go under (am dead).  Have already left clear instructions on which kit to put in the casket with me for the cremation.  Not planning on going anywhere soon though.

"Run With The Pack"

Thats very commendable given the short history of the wolfpack , but you didnt answer my question completely

Would you be happy ?

[Kayakman]

38 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Thats very commendable given the short history of the wolfpack , but you didnt answer my question completely

Would you be happy ?

I am always happy....if the scenario happened I would accept it and work harder to improve the current situation...good karma makes more good Karma.   Always remain positive, good things are just around the corner! 

[John WP Fan]

 

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Thats very commendable given the short history of the wolfpack , but you didnt answer my question completely

Would you be happy ?

I'll give you the answer you were fishing for: No, I would not be happy. I'm in this expecting the Wolfpack to be playing at the top level possible, which looks like Super League right now because the NRL really is too far away. This experiment makes much more sense once we are playing against only full-time fully professional teams. I fully believe the Wolfpack's support at home will continue to grow and at least double over the next few years (if we have a stadium that can hold a lot more), as sports fans in Toronto begin to discover this great game. And as time goes on I believe that Toronto and other new North American teams can help grow revenue from broadcasting and sponsorships dramatically. That is not going to happen overnight, but it can happen. And development of locally-grown players will follow that, but not in real numbers for 10 years or more.

 

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

 

I'll give you the answer you were fishing for: No, I would not be happy. I'm in this expecting the Wolfpack to be playing at the top level possible, which looks like Super League right now because the NRL really is too far away. This experiment make much more sense once we are playing against only full-time fully professional teams. I fully believe the Wolfpack's support at home will continue to grow and at least double over the next few years (if we have a stadium that can hold a lot more), as sports fans in Toronto begin to discover this great game. And as time goes on I believe that Toronto and other new North American teams can help grow revenue from broadcasting and sponsorships dramatically. That is not going to happen overnight, but it can happen. And development of locally-grown players will follow that, but not in real numbers for 10 years or more.

 

Thanks for that John , as ever your post is candid and honest , it is a genuine pleasure to have you on this board

Given the implications of what you suggest you can surely understand the concerns many long standing fans of heartland clubs have for the future

For 6 years we had licencing [ effectively franchising as in NA Sport ] excluding my club and many others from pursuing our dream , initially I continued to buy a ticket and watch the games , 2 years in I started to drop off [ in fact I started going to more away games than home for a ' day out ' ] until eventually it was only the Cup games as they had ' meaning '

If we had kept that system then I doubt I would be going at all anymore , our attendances in our shiney new 12,000 capacity stadium had dropped to around 1,500 , heaven knows what they would have been now

If a similar system returns then I will most likely not bother again , I am not alone in this opinion

So essentially I am very much like yourself and probably Kayakman , I too want expansion , as long as I am part of it

[Kayakman]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Thanks for that John , as ever your post is candid and honest , it is a genuine pleasure to have you on this board

Given the implications of what you suggest you can surely understand the concerns many long standing fans of heartland clubs have for the future

For 6 years we had licencing [ effectively franchising as in NA Sport ] excluding my club and many others from pursuing our dream , initially I continued to buy a ticket and watch the games , 2 years in I started to drop off [ in fact I started going to more away games than home for a ' day out ' ] until eventually it was only the Cup games as they had ' meaning '

If we had kept that system then I doubt I would be going at all anymore , our attendances in our shiney new 12,000 capacity stadium had dropped to around 1,500 , heaven knows what they would have been now

If a similar system returns then I will most likely not bother again , I am not alone in this opinion

So essentially I am very much like yourself and probably Kayakman , I too want expansion , as long as I am part of it

I don't see any reason why everybody can't be part of the expansion...not one good reason has ever been presented to me.

Lets make it so that if clubs want to change, etc. in the future it is only because they want to....up to them totally.   If the change is positive it will grow, if not it won't; but we keep all the plants in the garden and fertilize everything well....simple.

The Problem is some plants are intentionally repelling the water, and doing it on purpose....we are currently trying out new ways to try and reach them....but are coming up short.   Anything to help would be greatly appreciated.

Signed,

The Expansionists

[GUBRATS]

32 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I don't see any reason why everybody can't be part of the expansion...not one good reason has ever been presented to me.

Lets make it so that if clubs want to change, etc. in the future it is only because they want to....up to them totally.   If the change is positive it will grow, if not it won't; but we keep all the plants in the garden and fertilize everything well....simple.

The Problem is some plants are intentionally repelling the water, and doing it on purpose....we are currently trying out new ways to try and reach them....but are coming up short.   Anything to help would be greatly appreciated.

Signed,

The Expansionists

Plenty of obscure analogies again , but all utterly meaningless , as I said on my previous post , you Kayakman are exactly the same as me , you want expansion , as long as you are part of it , if you arent , you wont be hanging around watching second string with no chance of moving up

[The Parksider]

11 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I started a business from scratch that is doing rather well.  You acknowledge that the original model stated it needed up to 5 NA clubs before negotiations could realistically begin.  So why not wait 5 years to see if this eventuates

Because the plan means removing five English SL clubs from Superleague thus alienating thousands of supporters here driving out English investors, and closing down valuable academies and foundations, with absolutely no guarantees of a penny/cent in return. Would you give up half your business to an advertising guy who tells you if you do that, he can get you a multi-million deal in years to come he will share with you??  

11 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

No vision, no optimism - We're talking POTENTIAL. 

We’re talking disaster. Perez’s plan meant removing 5 superleague clubs for NA clubs alienating thousands of supporters here, driving out English investors, and closing down valuable academies and foundations, with absolutely no guarantees of a penny/cent in return. You carry on with your blind optimism

2 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

I'm in this expecting the Wolfpack to be playing at the top level possible, which looks like Super League and as time goes on I believe that Toronto and other new North American teams can help grow revenue from broadcasting and sponsorships dramatically. That is not going to happen overnight, but it can happen. 

So not “will” happen then? What happens to all the English clubs you elbow out of Superleague, their  investors, and their thousands of fans, and their foundation and academy player development systems. North American RU are nowhere near “dramatic” TV deals, yet you talk of clubs who don’t even exist attracting such deals?

All three of you idly dream about massive fantasy TV deals and ignore the reality of the damage Perez would have done dismantling half the English professional game on nothing more than a promise.

[John WP Fan]

One thing I find confusing is the assumption that expansion means choosing new teams over established ones. The experience across major league sports in North America has universally been that expansion grows the sport by adding fans and money in new cities, and after some time those cities become sources of talent as well. Leagues expand by adding new teams. Occasionally teams move from one city to another, and more rarely teams fold, but only because they are not drawing enough fans or generating enough revenue. Or sometimes a greedy owner plays one city against another to get a better deal. But teams are never, ever forced out because some other team joins the league and succeeds.

New teams pay a hefty price to join, and the money goes to the existing team owners. When a league adds lots of new teams in a small number of years the quality of play may suffer short-term from dilution, but over time the increased opportunities draw more players in.

i have seen this over and over with both hockey and baseball. I may have sounded like Parky at times decrying new teams in Anaheim or Phoenix or Nashville, but most of the teams planted in places where hockey was little-known have done very well, and now a generation after hockey moved to Phoenix, a kid from there leads my beloved Maple Leafs into contention for a Stanley Cup in the coming years.

 

Expansion has been good for sports here; it can do the same for rugby league, I believe.

[RayCee]

Expansion doesn’t mean shutting out teams. 12 isn’t enough teams. The worst thing for me with SL is teams playing each other too often. Expansion suggests growth. When the WP enter SL with others joining, there is no reason this cannot be in the short term 14 sides. Then if it works well, go from there with 16 in the longer term. A more varied and interesting comp.

During the SL standoff in Australia, there were 22 teams and none were of poor quality. Why they currently only have 16 is bizarre. Australia pulled away from expansion and went into retreat for no reason other than more money for each club. They didn’t have the advantage of NA teams doing their own tv deals.

Toronto (and shortly a few other NA sides) and Toulouse can do their own deals so no problem there with SL clubs having funding cut. It should lead to better sponsorship deals over time and maybe attract more wealthy investors as the profile is lifted. Hey, that may even increase the tv rights for SL. 

I sounds promising and is a no brainer as it risks nothing and offers much. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

Because the plan means removing five English SL clubs from Superleague thus alienating thousands of supporters here driving out English investors, and closing down valuable academies and foundations, with absolutely no guarantees of a penny/cent in return. Would you give up half your business to an advertising guy who tells you if you do that, he can get you a multi-million deal in years to come he will share with you??  

We’re talking disaster. Perez’s plan meant removing 5 superleague clubs for NA clubs alienating thousands of supporters here, driving out English investors, and closing down valuable academies and foundations, with absolutely no guarantees of a penny/cent in return. You carry on with your blind optimism

So not “will” happen then? What happens to all the English clubs you elbow out of Superleague, their  investors, and their thousands of fans, and their foundation and academy player development systems. North American RU are nowhere near “dramatic” TV deals, yet you talk of clubs who don’t even exist attracting such deals?

All three of you idly dream about massive fantasy TV deals and ignore the reality of the damage Perez would have done dismantling half the English professional game on nothing more than a promise.

Firstly, of course I would not give up half my business to another person.  But my business and a multi million pound sporting competition are hardly comparables.

Secondly, I do not idly dream about massive fantasy TV deals.  But I do dream about how RL can increase its footprint globally.  

RL has been presented with an unprecedented opportunity.  It has divided opinion. The decision makers at the RFL and SL must look at the options and make the decision that is best for the game for the next 20/30 years and not based on short term self protection.

IMHO I believe SL is in an envious position.  SL now has 3 options as to how to go forward.  The final decision will be made by SL Chairmen - not Perez or any other potential investor.

Option 1 - Retain the status quo.  This will mean SL clubs continue to exist, keep their supporters, academies and foundations.  However, clubs can be relegated and possibly revert to part time status.  Can we afford to lose full time clubs? Also can this option enable clubs to substantially increase income to meet the challenges of the NRL or RU?

Option 2 - Keep SL at 12 teams but accept new entities over a number of years into the Championship or C1 and let performances on the pitch dictate who plays in SL.  This us the option you fear and I would not support it either.  This option is no different to option 1 insofar as relegated teams may be lost to the game.

Option 3 - Choose to accomodate new entities from northern hemisphere countries along with existing SL teams over future years and develop a suitable model.  This would mean that SL clubs continue to exist, retain their investors, supporters academies, foundations etc. and the involvement of new entities MAY lead to increased particpation, supporters, academies and investment in the sport and MAY lead to a globalisation of the sport. 

I am not ashamed to say that I prefer Option 3. I am also aware that this option, just like any of the other options, if implemented may not work.

Parksider, I assume you are option 1.

 

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Plenty of obscure analogies again , but all utterly meaningless , as I said on my previous post , you Kayakman are exactly the same as me , you want expansion , as long as you are part of it , if you arent , you wont be hanging around watching second string with no chance of moving up

Come On!....you know thats not what I said....look at the three posts above this one....no one is talking about anyone losing anything but everyone will get something!!!!

Its like a family winning the lottery!   Expansions will share the wealth with everyone so we all get ahead!  Great Gig!

One time shot though....hope people don't blow it....time to get moving on this.

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

One thing I find confusing is the assumption that expansion means choosing new teams over established ones. The experience across major league sports in North America has universally been that expansion grows the sport by adding fans and money in new cities, and after some time those cities become sources of talent as well. Leagues expand by adding new teams. Occasionally teams move from one city to another, and more rarely teams fold, but only because they are not drawing enough fans or generating enough revenue. Or sometimes a greedy owner plays one city against another to get a better deal. But teams are never, ever forced out because some other team joins the league and succeeds.

New teams pay a hefty price to join, and the money goes to the existing team owners. When a league adds lots of new teams in a small number of years the quality of play may suffer short-term from dilution, but over time the increased opportunities draw more players in.

i have seen this over and over with both hockey and baseball. I may have sounded like Parky at times decrying new teams in Anaheim or Phoenix or Nashville, but most of the teams planted in places where hockey was little-known have done very well, and now a generation after hockey moved to Phoenix, a kid from there leads my beloved Maple Leafs into contention for a Stanley Cup in the coming years.

Expansion has been good for sports here; it can do the same for rugby league, I believe.

That assumption exists because there's only enough money coming in now to sustain 12 teams at the top level; that's why it was reduced from 14 a few years ago.  If more money is dependent on half a dozen teams here in America being added, what happens between now and then?  Do they all wait in the second tier until the money comes along, or do they displace existing teams from the top tier instead?  Maybe they could be charged an expansion fee sufficient to allow everyone to take a smaller cut of the existing money in the interim, but why would they pay it unless they go right into the top tier with no threat of dropping out through relegation?

The model which you and I and everyone else over here knows is a model where there isn't any promotion and relegation, thus the leagues always grow when expansion teams are added, but that's foreign to the Brits.