Paul Rowley on BBC Radio Manchester

[Dave T]

Im not a fan of this kind of deal in principle, particularly long term as I think we should be working as a group. But this kind of thing does make whether to put them in SL more of a no brainer as the financial risk is being removed from the existing game.

It does create problems for how you develop future NA teams and how those deals then work.

Maybe needs to be a 5 year agreement.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, jpmc said:

Dont look to deeply into scorelines like last night.Leigh had a few results like this in 2016 and things worked out well in the end

Leigh had a couple in 2015,things didn't work out well.

[The Future is League]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You talk about “Tapping into the most lucrative sports market in the world” as though £100’s of £Millions are there just lying around waiting to be picked up. Now you assure us TWP “will get” more from the Americans and Chinese than SKY give us. Just where do you get these monetary assurances that appear to amount to somewhere around half a £Billion pounds, and why should anyone have any interest at all in a Leigh reserve team, which even if they got into SL and recruited would be no different to another Salford under Koukash.

As for the long term plan that’s an American league with American players as Jason Moore says, and the time to go for it is not now. The difference between Moore and Perez is that Moore talks sense, whilst Perez peddled all this nonsense about massive TV deals, and Chinese and American college athletes making instant converts to Rugby league. Then he disappeared which is why Rowley is left toeing these ludicrous lines.

(1) No it’s not. Not a single Chairman will take any notice until “North American TV” actually put some money on the table with a proposal. (2) You have every idea it’s just the same old Perez nonsense, trying to bluff Superleague, only poor old Rowley is left holding that particular baby.

Rugby Union in North America has of course tried to go professional and attract commercial deals, they formed a Rugby Superleague, then went on to PRO Rugby and are now trying to build a league and commercial partners as the MLR. Oddly enough at no time have broadcasters been falling over themselves to provide hundreds of $Millions of Dollars to these entities, who present North America with an established and very real professional North American Rugby game.

But somehow US Broadcasters apparently want to give M62 RL Multi $$$Million deals.  Give it up you two and come back into the real world.

Its clear that the current 12 super league clubs don't want to give up any of their TV money even for the benefit of getting a toe hold in the North American sports, so i can't see a problem of having another club in super league from North America who don't want sky money but want the money they get from their own negotiated TV deal.

So if you was a super league chairman parky how would you play it.

Would you give up some Sky TV money and give it to Toronto or would you say Toronto won't get any Sky money but can keep all the money the get from their own TV deals?

What ever happens parky unless the super league clubs give up some money for a North American club they certainly won't be getting any North American or Chinese TV money

[Adelaide Tiger]

Parky, in your response to the comment about Toronto and TV deals you state 'why should anyone have interest at all in a Leigh reserve team'. ... one that incidentally beat Leigh's first team, but that is not my point.

The point is that with you following RL you know how Toronto evolved and the link with Leigh.  But the hoped for investors in North America wont be sat at a negotiating table with Toronto and say 'Sorry we refuse to invest in a TV deal with you because your coach and players came from Leigh'.

The TV companies will want to know how the game itself will attract viewers.

 

 

[The Parksider]

16 hours ago, Roryfellinghamwebb said:

Those comments (I've deleted most so as not to bore people) and people such as Parksider are completely why RL is currently in the dark ages. Attendances and playing figures are dropping at an alarming rate due to fossils such as this blocking progress and development 'as this isn't what we used to do' and 'no. Because it won't work'. 

Over 50 years of supporting, and in my earlier years playing and refereeing (badly) Rugby league and still going strong, why do you post this sort of stuff? I’ve been for every single expansion project from Fulham to wherever and whoever, but this TWP nonsense is not expansion.

Can you not understand that dressing up 17 English lads in TWP shirts and holding games as part of a beer festival, in a country where they don’t really play Rugby League and where it died out twice is not expansion. Can you not understand that putting teams like this in SL and removing proper clubs who produce proper players is not expansion? Have you not followed all Perez’s false promises of TV riches and easy to convert college and Chinese athletes? Have you not now seen two years on since Perez promised this it has all come to nothing? Have you not seen how Perez has done a runner and left Rowley in the mire.

Before you insult me, as some sort of argument, just use your brain and really have a good long think about it.

9 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Its clear that the current 12 super league clubs don't want to give up any of their TV money even for the benefit of getting a toe hold in the North American sports, so i can't see a problem of having another club in super league from North America who don't want sky money but want the money they get from their own negotiated TV deal.

So if you was a super league chairman parky how would you play it.

Thank you for your civil reply. I would “play it” by ignoring all promises of investment without proven funds in the bank ready to be signed over to the Superleague clubs. Then I would ask what the investor wanted back for this. Please think hard about this. I know how much expansion means to our game, this is why Perez managed to bluff his way this far before doing a runner.

If there was £Millions** but in return we had to give Canadian clubs places in SL, I would not sell our Superleague clubs down the river and replace them with NA clubs because SL clubs actually develop players, because they are the fabric of the game here and it’s not expansion, nor is it investment to be turning SL clubs into Championship clubs and closing their foundations and academies down for Canadian clubs. Do you not get this? It is destructive, it is selling out.

Have you not read Jason Moore’s article where he plans to properly expand the game with a North American league with North American players? There is already a USA league and has been for some time. Moore is looking to promote the game in the build up to the world cup there and develop and build up these clubs, in which building up youth development is part of the scene. That is proper expansion, and is in total contrast to TWP. In the end I would not betray Moore’s plans, nor would I betray Superleague clubs here.

**No disrespect to you but you and others blindly assume there are untold riches to be had, you totally ignore my point that Rugby Union in America is far more advanced than League yet they haven't had $$$$Millions offered all the years they have been trying to professionalise. There is no such thing as free money my friend, it all comes at a price.  With great respect you  have been taken in hook line and sinker by Perez.

[Hornetto]

Hornets: part-time club owned by 95 supporters.

Toronto: full-time club owned by multi-millionaire mining tycoon.

Rowley has his players 36 hours a week.

Kilshaw has his players 8 hours a week.

Winning Margin 1 point.

Now, that either means that the players don't care enough and are just taking the money. Or it means their coach isn't very good.

Answers on a postcard to Manchester Metropolitan University Sports Campus, Fallowfield.

[The Future is League]

4 minutes ago, Hornetto said:

Hornets: part-time club owned by 95 supporters.

Toronto: full-time club owned by multi-millionaire mining tycoon.

Rowley has his players 36 hours a week.

Kilshaw has his players 8 hours a week.

Winning Margin 1 point.

Now, that either means that the players don't care enough and are just taking the money. Or it means their coach isn't very good.

Answers on a postcard to Manchester Metropolitan University Sports Campus, Fallowfield.

Forget the play offs as knock out football can be a bit of a lottery.

For me who ever finishes top of the league is the best team in that league and who ever finishes bottom is the worst in the league in the regular season.

If in the championship is this case the Wolfpack finish top they are in my eyes the best team in the league and the same with Toulouse and London if they finish top and i expect one of those 3 to finish top at the end of the regular season, but don't think any are good enough to get into super league via the middle 8s.

Enjoy the season

[super major]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Forget the play offs as knock out football can be a bit of a lottery.

For me who ever finishes top of the league is the best team in that league and who ever finishes bottom is the worst in the league in the regular season.

If in the championship is this case the Wolfpack finish top they are in my eyes the best team in the league and the same with Toulouse and London if they finish top and i expect one of those 3 to finish top at the end of the regular season, but don't think any are good enough to get into super league via the middle 8s.

Enjoy the season

This is definitely a problem in the current set up.

Promoting clubs who have strengthened for the play offs is asking for trouble in that a couple of short term imports and a bit of luck could see a club promoted but still be unable to compete in SL and encourages clubs to pay out money they cannot really afford . If we are going to have promotion it has to be that the team finishing top is allowed to be promoted .

We must take note of what Parky is saying and not expand for expansions sake. Whether promoting TWP as club from a completely new country with no real infrastructure in RL could actually help to set up such an infrastructure I obviously have no idea.

What TWP are reported as saying they wanted the largest share of any monies they bring to the game. I have no problem with them keeping all monies up to and conditionally beyond the level on offer centrally in SL.But after that I feel there should be some form of split to include all clubs in that competition

[The Future is League]

7 minutes ago, super major said:

This is definitely a problem in the current set up.

Promoting clubs who have strengthened for the play offs is asking for trouble in that a couple of short term imports and a bit of luck could see a club promoted but still be unable to compete in SL and encourages clubs to pay out money they cannot really afford . If we are going to have promotion it has to be that the team finishing top is allowed to be promoted .

We must take note of what Parky is saying and not expand for expansions sake. Whether promoting TWP as club from a completely new country with no real infrastructure in RL could actually help to set up such an infrastructure I obviously have no idea.

What TWP are reported as saying they wanted the largest share of any monies they bring to the game. I have no problem with them keeping all monies up to and conditionally beyond the level on offer centrally in SL.But after that I feel there should be some form of split to include all clubs in that competition

As regards your last paragraph what percentage  of their TV money do you think that the Wolfpack should share in time with other super league clubs?

Should super league clubs show good intent and give up some TV money to have a 14 team super league?

I personally don't think we will ever have a better chance to get into the North American sports market than we do now via the Wolfpack, in my opinion

[Oxford]

8 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I personally don't think we will ever have a better chance to get into the North American sports market than we do now via the Wolfpack, in my opinion

Only chance ....Last chance...... final watering hole.

No doubt we'll lose, abuse it and one other sport, at least will enjoy the debacle and our failure.

[super major]

7 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

As regards your last paragraph what percentage  of their TV money do you think that the Wolfpack should share in time with other super league clubs?

Should super league clubs show good intent and give up some TV money to have a 14 team super league?

I personally don't think we will ever have a better chance to get into the North American sports market than we do now via the Wolfpack, in my opinion

I stated they should keep a percentage which equates to what other SL clubs get from Sky in the UK. An agreed proportion should then go to help develop the game in NA. There has to be some contingency for more teams in NA down the line. I  know it will have to be a long negotiation and there will have to be an agreed period where they are allowed overseas players etc. But the aim should be to force development in NA if possible. It makes a joke of the whole league if some teams are more equal than others,obviously with the exception of Wigan

[The Future is League]

2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Only chance ....Last chance...... final watering hole.

No doubt we'll lose, abuse it and one other sport, at least will enjoy the debacle and our failure.

If we don't grasp the nettle on this I'm finished with game for good and i honestly don't think i will be alone.

[Oxford]

39 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

If we don't grasp the nettle on this I'm finished with game for good and i honestly don't think i will be alone.

 You won't be and there'll be a queue at the door if they go down to 10 SL clubs too.

I've already dumped the club of my youth just based on the fans reaction to each other online.

[super major]

29 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

If we don't grasp the nettle on this I'm finished with game for good and i honestly don't think i will be alone.

I don't understand what you think is so special with this. There are so many things that are problems for the game.

We all have our ideas but without knowing a lot more than I do I find it difficult to arrive at a retional view.

I sincerely hope that somehow there can be found a way to expand tgg to new continents (how good does that sound) but we have to be careful it isn't done at the expense of existing clubs.

Us poor speccies are as usual kept in the dark although I guess there  are ongoing negotiations and it is only right at this time to keep confidences.

Hopefully our administrators will have the decency to explain whatever decision is reached!

ATEOTD this is not the worst thing we have ever seen. Don't give up on the game

[super major]

Just now, Oxford said:

 You won't be and there'll be a queue at the door if they go down to 10 SL clubs too.

I've already dumped the club of my youth just based on the fans reaction to each other online.

You are a drama queen aren't you? You have no idea what form 2x10 would take and already you have judged it.

How anyone can dump the club they support it so far beyond me I can't spake. A  club is more than the sum of it's parts,certainly more than it's bickering supporters

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, super major said:

Don't give up on the game

I think the game has a tendency to give up on us and that's what this is about.

 

1 minute ago, super major said:

You are a drama queen aren't you?

Really don't give up but this?

No I'm not btw just a bit tired of the same old same old and unnecessary insults instead of discussion when gizmoids have no argument!

[Kayakman]

I'm for expanding SL....why would anyone not want to grow?

[David Shepherd]

On 24/03/2018 at 10:43 AM, Adelaide Tiger said:

Spot on JPMC.

 We all know that club chairman are:

1. Worried about taking the giant leap that might change the face of the game.  

2. They are worried that their team may not be part of the new RL world

3. They are worried that if they share SKY money with Toronto their share will diminish by around £150k a year

4. They are worried that Toronto might generate much more if Toronto go it alone and generate much more than SL clubs currently get through their own TV deals

So its an interesting conumdrum.

In my world

1. The SL Chairman need to look rationally at what opportunities the potential influx of new clubs might bring and if the pro's outweigh the con's then be bold and go for it

2. If SL Chairmen choose to go for it then develop a model that is accomodating to clubs and not cut clubs adrift i.e. Conference style model

3. If £150k is the difference between SL clubs surviving or not then we must ask the question are clubs holding the game back purely in the interest of self preservation

4. As a sport we do not need to, or ever will rival the NBA, NHL or the NFL but if we make a dent in the sporting market the tv deal could at least rival what SKY provide now.

I'm not sure the 12 SL chairmen have the ability to look further than the end of the respective noses.  They'll go for the extra £150,000+ each that would result from Toronto forgoing their share of the Sky pie, thinking they've got themselves a right deal. 

They'll be completely blind to the fact that through TWP we could be looking at TV deals worth many times what we currently get from Sky.

Not sure about conferences, I think we're better sticking with a traditional league structure.  Teams will find their level, assuming a fair distribution of the TV monies available.  I don't buy into the argument that only top level rugby is appealing to TV audiences.  With the right coverage and promotion, there's no reason why 2nd and 3rd division games can't be attractive and profitable.  This will be especially true if some of the smaller SL teams like Cas (Sorry!), Widnes, Wakey, Hudds, Salford find themselves dislodged over time by the Torontos, Toulouses, Newcastles and Londons (hopefully) etc of the world.

We could make a small but significant inroad into the sporting conciousness, but not while ever 12 greedy chairmen are holding th game back.

[David Shepherd]

On 24/03/2018 at 5:07 PM, Roryfellinghamwebb said:

Those comments (I've deleted most so as not to bore people) and people such as Parksider are completely why RL is currently in the dark ages. Attendances and playing figures are dropping at an alarming rate due to fossils such as this blocking progress and development 'as this isn't what we used to do' and 'no. Because it won't work'. Hopefully a fresh breed of RL players, coaches, fans and employees will soon replace the outdated ones and RL can start to grow. 

Well said

[RayCee]

4 hours ago, super major said:

We must take note of what Parky is saying...

I think some need to take a step back and reflect on what they are saying. In the morning light, the issues may become clearer and comments made in the heat of the moment seen for what they are, ill advised. 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I'm for expanding SL....why would anyone not want to grow?

Would you be happy for SL to expand without Toronto ?

[super major]

4 hours ago, Oxford said:

I think the game has a tendency to give up on us and that's what this is about.

 

Really don't give up but this?

No I'm not btw just a bit tired of the same old same old and unnecessary insults instead of discussion when gizmoids have no argument!

what is a gizmoid

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Would you be happy for SL to expand without Toronto ?

Of course, why not?   The teams in the expansion must be able  to financially prove themselves  and be successful both on and off the field...if Toronto cannot not do this then they should not be part of the expansion....I think they can and I think they have though.  Therefore they should be part of the expansion.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Of course, why not?   The teams in the expansion must be able  to financially prove themselves  and be successful both on and off the field...if Toronto cannot not do this then they should not be part of the expansion....I think they can and I think they have though.  Therefore they should be part of the expansion.

OK , so tommorrow morning SL announce that they dont think expansion into NA is the best way to move forward , instead they are going to promote Toulouse and London and then actively look to finance new SL clubs in Edinburgh,Dublin,Cardiff and Paris

However Toronto are welcome to remain in the Championship but will never be considered for SL

Youd be happy with that and continue to support them by attending games and purchasing merchandise ?

[RayCee]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

However Toronto are welcome to remain in the Championship but will never be considered for SL

Youd be happy with that and continue to support them by attending games and purchasing merchandise ?

I personally am disappointed in your loaded question. Kayakman gave a fair and honest comment and you fire that back at him? Why would he be happy with a situation where his team is denied entry into SL regardless of how successful or worthy they are? Why would anyone be happy with that? I would be unhappy in that instance too. I'm sure he would still support the Wolfpack even if not meriting admittance to SL.