Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

[wilsontown]

7 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

That's an option, but for me it would completely devalue the tradition and the prestige of being selected to represent Great Britain

That would be the problem with it, right enough. I guess we need to decide what GB would actually be for. If it's just England wearing different shirts I don't see the point of it, even if that would be the GB side you'd put out on merit.

[Dave T]

I don't massively care either way, I just want something organised, ideally 12 months ago so I could have perhaps planned to go!

But... looking back at the 1988 squad, which was a great memory for me, seeing some of our star players live on BBC playing versus the Kangaroos - we had 32 players. 31 English and 1 Welsh lad. Was that tour mocked and a joke for this reason?

[17 stone giant]

43 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

British means a combination of the British Isles, not just one of the components. 13 Scotsmen would be Scotland..and so forth.

You're putting the cart before the horse, and you're confusing eligibility with selection.

The point is that the team name comes first. Having chosen the team name, you then select eligible players for that team. If you've decided to call your team Great Britain and you then select the best 13 players from Great Britain, that is entirely credible. It doesn't make it any less credible if at any one time all the players happen to come from only one of the countries. The team name isn't determined by the make up of that team - it's chosen in advance. What the team name does is define who is eligible to play - it doesn't say who will get to play. Being eligible to represent the team is one thing, being good enough to be selected is another.

Think about the Great Britain Davis cup team in tennis. It was decided many years ago to have a team called Great Britain. It doesn't matter how that team is made up, so long as you're selecting on merit the best five players from Great Britain. This year, the team selected includes four English players and one Scottish player. Using your logic, is that team allowed to be called Great Britain or not? It doesn't include any Welsh or Northern Irish players, so should it be renamed England and Scotland? What happens if that Scottish player drops out injured before the match and is replaced by an English player. Does the team now need to be renamed as England? I think it's obvious to see that such a situation is going to get pretty confusing, and end up being pretty pointless, if you're forever adjusting the team name based on where the players are from.

In the past, Great Britain RL has had players from Scotland, Wales, and even Ireland. Right now, the consensus seems to be that none of those countries have any players that would be good enough to get into a GB starting 13 on merit. But we don't know what the situation will be next year, or the year after, or five or ten years from now. We can speculate that there might not be any good enough for the next 50 years, but we don't know that for sure.

Just to be clear, the above isn't an argument in favour of returning to playing as GB - it's an argument to say that it would be perfectly legitimate to do so. There is a difference between the two things.

 

[damp squib]

It would be such a classic Rugby League story for the RFL to announce the triumphant return of the Great Britain Rugby League team in say...2021...and in the meantime Scotland votes for independence and Ireland is reunified.

[roughyedspud]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

With respect, we have heard it all before, and you have been suckered in plenty of times, telling us all about these tournaments that are going to happen, that haven't happened.

It's not my fault if Australia chuck their toys out of the pram,cos they didn't get their own way,so they cancel the GB tour..

Nor is it my fault the RLPA get into the ear of someone who decides a weekend world 9s if better than a month long,8 team,confed cup!

There is a international calendar right up to 2025,they've all agreed it and need to stick to it,our job,imo,to make sure they do...and if anyone has me on twitter you'd see I'm trying my level best to hold people/bodies to account..

[roughyedspud]

6 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

 

I think the reason the RFL are doing it, is because they want to still sometimes use the iconic shirt and Lion badge. 

The actual reason GB was brought back is because Steve mascord,the Aussie journo,and a NRL media manager,who name escapes me,convinced Nigel wood it was a good idea to bring it back to tour Australia..

Mascord wrote about GB literally every 3 months,planting seeds,his GB to play wallabies at wembley story surfaced every 6 months for 3 years lol..

Mascord & the NRL guy came up with a tour itinerary featuring tests & mid week games in the bush that he published and sent to the RFL/Nigel wood

Mascord is also in possession of the "Great Britain Lions" social media accounts on facebook & twitter..he uses to facebook site to sell his RL memorabilia...

If anyone want to have a pop at anyone over this GB nonsense there's ya guy..

 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, roughyedspud said:

The actual reason GB was brought back is because Steve mascord,the Aussie journo,and a NRL media manager,who name escapes me,convinced Nigel wood it was a good idea to bring it back to tour Australia..

Mascord wrote about GB literally every 3 months,planting seeds,his GB to play wallabies at wembley story surfaced every 6 months for 3 years lol..

Mascord & the NRL guy came up with a tour itinerary featuring tests & mid week games in the bush that he published and sent to the RFL/Nigel wood

Mascord is also in possession of the "Great Britain Lions" social media accounts on facebook & twitter..he uses to facebook site to sell his RL memorabilia...

If anyone want to have a pop at anyone over this GB nonsense there's ya guy..

 

Surely though the RFL should be just a little above planning its international calendar around the words of an Australian journalist?

[17 stone giant]

22 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

his GB to play wallabies at wembley story surfaced every 6 months for 3 years lol..

I found a link to that story. Any idea why it didn't go ahead?

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/wallabies-to-face-great-britain/

24 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

The actual reason GB was brought back is because Steve mascord,the Aussie journo,and a NRL media manager,who name escapes me,convinced Nigel wood it was a good idea to bring it back to tour Australia..

Yet if the other thread is to be believed, it's likely that GB aren't even going to play in Australia next year. I wonder if the Wallabies are still keen for a game.

[Richard de la Riviere]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't massively care either way, I just want something organised, ideally 12 months ago so I could have perhaps planned to go!

But... looking back at the 1988 squad, which was a great memory for me, seeing some of our star players live on BBC playing versus the Kangaroos - we had 32 players. 31 English and 1 Welsh lad. Was that tour mocked and a joke for this reason?

Don't forget the Scotsman! 

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, Richard de la Riviere said:

Don't forget the Scotsman! 

Who? Only went off wiki whichlisted 31 English

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Who? Only went off wiki whichlisted 31 English

Was it Alan Tait?

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Who? Only went off wiki whichlisted 31 English

Waddell

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Waddell

Thanks I did have Waddell in my head, but I didn't think Wiki could be wrong!

But the essence of the point is right. People don't point to that GB team in 1988 being a 'fake' of any sort.

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I wasn't into RL in 1988. But it probably was mocked for having one Welshman in, yeah. But even so, there were other contenders who weren't English to get a GB spot. And even if that squad was totally English, there was always the very strong chance that next time they played, players like Jonathan Davies would be in the frame - this just isn't going to happen nowadays.

But anyway, we've had 10 years of building an England RL brand. What's the point of going backwards now?

I don't disagree with the essence of this post, I don't really understand the benefits - if we had 5k fans as part of a Lions members club ready to go on tour every 4 years, and huge commercial benefits like the other lot, then crack on, as it turns out we will have around 2 coachloads going and we will probably give sponsorship rights away to Ladbrokes. I agree that we should crack on with England, go on tour with them.

But, that doesn't mean that Great Britain is a farce. It means scrapping England for a year is a farce.

Many people have a lot of fond memories of the 1988 tour, showing that basically having a GB team full of English blokes is perfectly fine. Those English lads are British.

But, I do accept that the world has moved on and we either stick with the Four Nations approach or go back to GB full time. This half-hearted approach to both is frustrating!

[Dave T]

11 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

It's not my fault if Australia chuck their toys out of the pram,cos they didn't get their own way,so they cancel the GB tour..

Nor is it my fault the RLPA get into the ear of someone who decides a weekend world 9s if better than a month long,8 team,confed cup!

There is a international calendar right up to 2025,they've all agreed it and need to stick to it,our job,imo,to make sure they do...and if anyone has me on twitter you'd see I'm trying my level best to hold people/bodies to account..

Mate, I am certainly not blaming you for any shortcomings of the international game, but when MattSantos and I are questioning whether the game has a strategy, we are well aware of these 'agreements' and the nice press releases - but when the game abandons these on a whim I suggest that you maybe treat them with the contempt they deserve. 

[roughyedspud]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Mate, I am certainly not blaming you for any shortcomings of the international game, but when MattSantos and I are questioning whether the game has a strategy, we are well aware of these 'agreements' and the nice press releases - but when the game abandons these on a whim I suggest that you maybe treat them with the contempt they deserve. 

The world 9s has apparently gone in the last few hours too..

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, roughyedspud said:

The world 9s has apparently gone in the last few hours too..

a perfect example.

*walks away shaking head*

[roughyedspud]

33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

a perfect example.

*walks away shaking head*

I give up..

[nadera78]

Nigel Wood is desperate to have some kind of GB tour, isn't he? Even if it's only a tour of New Zealand, and co-incides with their involvement in a different competition which will take all the focus and commercial income in a small nation. Man alive he does not want that nostalgia trip to die.

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Wasn't it a GB tour to NZ in 1996 that resulted in staff/players being sent home to save money? The good old days.
This of course, 5 minutes after the game received a big SKY payment.

 

Who can forget the glory days of just about beating the Burleigh Bears ...

[MattSantos]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Mate, I am certainly not blaming you for any shortcomings of the international game, but when MattSantos and I are questioning whether the game has a strategy, we are well aware of these 'agreements' and the nice press releases - but when the game abandons these on a whim I suggest that you maybe treat them with the contempt they deserve. 

I'm blaming you

 

[roughyedspud]

13 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Nigel Wood is desperate to have some kind of GB tour, isn't he? Even if it's only a tour of New Zealand, and co-incides with their involvement in a different competition which will take all the focus and commercial income in a small nation. Man alive he does not want that nostalgia trip to die.

Half arsed GB tour and a half arsed pacific  championship...

Fat nige all over

[MattSantos]

Is Nigel Wood the same bloke from the Modern Toss stuff?

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

either stick with the Four Nations approach or go back to GB full time.

When you say "GB full time", would you include the World Cup in that?

[roughyedspud]

Hardly anyone wants GB once in a blue moon let alone full time