Australian schoolboys UK tour

[Futtocks]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Totally dominant England, Australia have had a good 15 mins out of the last 120, if we mind our work we can send them back on the plane with their tails firmly between their legs.

Better let them make it look respectable, or they'll be searching for excuses not to play Tests any more.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Holroyd is an absolute beast of a forward at this level, just heard Chev Walker say he is 122 kg, going to be very hard to handle when he grows up

Heard that but it can't be right... is he really 19st.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Just now, Dunbar said:

Heard that but it can't be right... is he really 19st.

Chev Walker is a coach at Leeds isn't he? you'd think he'd know, unless he's using a bit of artistic license. 

[Dunbar]

Scrum 10 out for England. A try here would be very useful. 

[Dunbar]

What a performance from England so far. Defended 3 or 4 sets on their line then ate up the yards in an exit set.

One of the games of the year for me.

[Dunbar]

18-6 win for England.

2-0 series win.

Well done lads.

[Futtocks]

Not just something to make a the off-season a little shorter, but a damn fine spectacle and an entertaining Test.

18:6 at the final hooter.

[Harry Stottle]

Pity is the timing of this age group was not reversed and played in Aus, the England team were totally head and shoulders above their opposition in every facit of the game, the aggregate score of the two games complimented Australia, England were far superior than the scoreline suggests, I will consider my own review and post it tomorrow, to few of us RL fans seem not to be to bothered about the game at this level, Dunbar I would particularly like to see your take on the series. 

[rhinos78]

What a series its been, really enjoyed the county games and the tests have took it up another notch, brilliant games. Was cautiously optomistic before the county games started that this was one of the best groups England have ever put together at this level , theyv went and proved it, against what one Aussie schoolboy expert said was the best Aussie schoolboy team for twenty years.

Havard, Smithies, Trout, Wilson, Holroyd, Newman and Welsby all brilliant tonight, but big well done to them all, fantastic.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Pity is the timing of this age group was not reversed and played in Aus, the England team were totally head and shoulders above their opposition in every facit of the game, the aggregate score of the two games complimented Australia, England were far superior than the scoreline suggests, I will consider my own review and post it tomorrow, to few of us RL fans seem not to be to bothered about the game at this level, Dunbar I would particularly like to see your take on the series. 

Will drop in my thoughts into this thread over the weekend but there is absolutely one thing that stands out from this series above all else.

I have seen the English u18 and u17 Academy team play the Australian Schoolboys and the Australian Institute of Sport lots of times and while England have had some success and shown loads of heart in losses the Aussies have always been the physically dominant side. The English lads would give their all but the Aussies would dominate the tackle with and without the ball.

But that was completely reversed in this series... for almost 160 minutes of rugby England dominated the contact, making metres with the ball and in defence. As you say, England were far superior and there is some credit to Australia for hanging in there and holding England to fewer points than their dominance probably warranted.

[saintspete83]

Great result from the England lads, full credit. The only thing that stops me getting too excited is that this England team is from the academy sides that is just 1 level down from first team SL sides whilst the aussies are picked from the school boys and not the holden cup comp what effectively is 1 step down from NRL. Please correct me if any of this is inaccurate. 

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, saintspete83 said:

Great result from the England lads, full credit. The only thing that stops me getting too excited is that this England team is from the academy sides that is just 1 level down from first team SL sides whilst the aussies are picked from the school boys and not the holden cup comp what effectively is 1 step down from NRL. Please correct me if any of this is inaccurate. 

The Holden Cup is an under 20's competition while this is under 18's.  England doesn't have a similar comp to Holden Cup so these teams are the correct opposition.

Many of these Australian players will play NRL and/or Holden Cup if they haven't already. 

The Australian rep team that is reflective of the under 20's age group is the Junior Kangaroos.

[The Partisan]

Well done to England from an Aussie International RL enthusiast !  Look forward to seeing the careers of a lot of these lads. 

One quick correction - The National Under 20's Holden Cup does not exist anymore. NSW and QLD have their own separate comps for 20's and 18's. Think the 20's is a full season whereas the 18's (and 16's) play a 7/8 game season before State and then National finals.  

Qld set up link here. 

https://www.qrl.com.au/news/20182/12/1322/historic-draw-alignment-to-benefit-fans/

 

Hopefully see a few of today's stars in action come RLWC2021. 

[ghost crayfish]

20 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The Holden Cup is an under 20's competition while this is under 18's.  England doesn't have a similar comp to Holden Cup so these teams are the correct opposition.

Many of these Australian players will play NRL and/or Holden Cup if they haven't already. 

The Australian rep team that is reflective of the under 20's age group is the Junior Kangaroos.

Which highlights a pretty massive gap in English player development! Congratulations on the win, but will be interesting to compare the two player lists in 5 years and see how well they've all kicked on.

[Dunbar]

Just now, ghost crayfish said:

Which highlights a pretty massive gap in English player development! Congratulations on the win, but will be interesting to compare the two player lists in 5 years and see how well they've all kicked on.

I completely agree.

Some players from these two sides will have the talent and maturity (physical and mental) to go straight to Super League/NRL but others will need more time.

At the moment, once the English team graduate the Acadamy it is open age professional league (Super League or Championship) or nothing. The under 20's comp in Australia is a perfect stepping stone in player development. 

I thought England were head and shoulders the best team in this series but it wouldn't surprise me to see more of the Australians develop in the long term.

This is not meant to be too critical of our setup, the Australian system has more money, infrastructure and playing power to make their system work.

[DoubleD]

20 hours ago, UTK said:

This is not quite true with respect to the schoolboys being the best of the age group from Australia, this squad is not reflective of of the best within the U18s age group in Australia but rather the best selection of players that attend high school in Australia. This means that any kid who was a year young at school (ie finished school last year at 17) yet is still in the U18 age group is not eligible (Best example of this is the only player to play NRL from this age group - David Fifita from the broncos). Additionally no player on the top 30 of an NRL squad (As far as i'm aware) has made the trip across for example Sharks youngster Bronson Xerri was initally selected but then withdrawn for NRL pre-season commitments. This is not to say however this side isn't a good showing from Australia as all bar one of the squad has played junior representative football squad for sides affiliated with an NRL side i believe. However if you were to pick the best side from all available U18s eligible for Australia the 17 would be very different.

Thanks, wondered why Bronson Xerri wasn’t playing, thought he must have been injured 

[DoubleD]

Just back from the game and another impressive, dominant performance by England. 

If I was going to have a gripe, England did revert to too much one out forward play - they got too excited making easy metres up field. They should have, having got on a roll for a couple of tackles, then linked in with the back line to take advantage of a fragmented and disorganised defence to open the Aussies up. Hence why they didn’t win by more. 

England’s forwards were dominant again against a poor Australian pack. In particular Trout and Walters were standouts for me in the second row, although all the props were excellent. Walters got a head knock at the end of the first half and didn’t return but he has a huge amount of potential. He’s very slight but has a good frame and runs excellent lines. Trout is more physical and also has good hands. I think Trout played the full 80 and Walters would’ve if he hadn’t got a head knock.

Smith had a pretty ordinary game for England, some poor attacking kicks in the first half, but improved in the second. McLelland didn’t impress again but perhaps he didn’t get enough ball. The Senior twins once again demonstrate that they haven’t mastered the basic skill levels. Nisbet on the other wing looked like a fish out of water, and not up to this level. Welsby was excellent in the backs, really showing his ability in this game. I was pleased for him, after he underperformed in the first test. He’s got a very bright future, and I know Saints think a lot of him. 

For Australia, they were really hindered by Best being injured, he was a bit of a passenger, which was a shame. Crichton looks a good prospect on the wing and Star T’oa again showed up well. I was amazed Madden kept his place and they didn’t move Talau back to stand off. Madden is the worst Aussie stand off I’ve seen at Schoolboy level. 

Overall, an excellent series. I was surprised how poor the Aussies were. It would have been interesting to see how they’d got on with the likes of Xerri and a couple of others who got pulled out prior to the tour. Things look pretty good for England though, especially in the forwards 

[BroncoFan]

Don't worry about who wasn't there, for example England could've had Herbie Farnsworth who is at the Brisbane Broncos or the Warrington second rower currently training the house down in their first team, the fact is England completely dominated this series and the scoreline flattered Australia. 

Some of the things youngsters are coached these days in OZ junior league is baffling and disappointing so the result isn't a complete surprise.

Standouts for me Havard, Smithies, Weslsby, Newman & Holroyd.  

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Will drop in my thoughts into this thread over the weekend but there is absolutely one thing that stands out from this series above all else.

I have seen the English u18 and u17 Academy team play the Australian Schoolboys and the Australian Institute of Sport lots of times and while England have had some success and shown loads of heart in losses the Aussies have always been the physically dominant side. The English lads would give their all but the Aussies would dominate the tackle with and without the ball.

But that was completely reversed in this series... for almost 160 minutes of rugby England dominated the contact, making metres with the ball and in defence. As you say, England were far superior and there is some credit to Australia for hanging in there and holding England to fewer points than their dominance probably warranted.

Not much more to add to that Dunbar, my thoughts exactly also some good summing up from Double D, Rhinos and Emosi.

As DD says why was Talau not selected at 6 over Madden he was not very impressive at all, also after his performances in the first 3 games when he looked like he could teach Cameron Smith a thing or two Ryan Gray was a mere shadow of what I expected from him in the tests, he was so dissapointing, we are so used to seeing Aussie teams being dominant in the spine of 1,6,7,9 and 13 collectively they offered very little but not surprising really as they were given no platform to perform on by a pack that was totally monstered by their English opposition, even this morning it is hard to recall any of the Aussie forwards names such little impression they made, I can remember Pele but only because of his name not his contribution to the game.

As the old RL saying goes, "you can only perform as well as the opposition allow you to" every England player stood up be counted and the Aussie's by the end must have been sick and fed up of being knocked backwards whether they were in possession or defending, a great performance, now where are the Kiwi's at this level, bring them on.

Thinking about it wouldn't it be good to have an international junior comp at this level tagged onto the WC in '21, I'm sure that Australia could manufacture teams such as Italy and Lebanon, maybe an Island collective decendent team, PNG would most likely be able to field a team as would France add in England, Aus and Kiwi, there we go an 8 team comp, perfect.

[Man of Kent]

Recording now on YouTube

If Harry Smith doesn’t play for England then I’m a kangaroo’s uncle

[DoubleD]

8 hours ago, Emosi Koloto said:

Don't worry about who wasn't there, for example England could've had Herbie Farnsworth who is at the Brisbane Broncos or the Warrington second rower currently training the house down in their first team, the fact is England completely dominated this series and the scoreline flattered Australia. 

Some of the things youngsters are coached these days in OZ junior league is baffling and disappointing so the result isn't a complete surprise.

Standouts for me Havard, Smithies, Weslsby, Newman & Holroyd.  

I was wondering about Farnworth for Brisbane - how come he didn’t get selected? We don’t want to lose him to Australia!!!

who's the Warrington second row you’re on about - Johnson? I didn’t realise he was still eligible 

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not much more to add to that Dunbar, my thoughts exactly also some good summing up from Double D, Rhinos and Emosi.

As DD says why was Talau not selected at 6 over Madden he was not very impressive at all, also after his performances in the first 3 games when he looked like he could teach Cameron Smith a thing or two Ryan Gray was a mere shadow of what I expected from him in the tests, he was so dissapointing, we are so used to seeing Aussie teams being dominant in the spine of 1,6,7,9 and 13 collectively they offered very little but not surprising really as they were given no platform to perform on by a pack that was totally monstered by their English opposition, even this morning it is hard to recall any of the Aussie forwards names such little impression they made, I can remember Pele but only because of his name not his contribution to the game.

As the old RL saying goes, "you can only perform as well as the opposition allow you to" every England player stood up be counted and the Aussie's by the end must have been sick and fed up of being knocked backwards whether they were in possession or defending, a great performance, now where are the Kiwi's at this level, bring them on.

Thinking about it wouldn't it be good to have an international junior comp at this level tagged onto the WC in '21, I'm sure that Australia could manufacture teams such as Italy and Lebanon, maybe an Island collective decendent team, PNG would most likely be able to field a team as would France add in England, Aus and Kiwi, there we go an 8 team comp, perfect.

I was thinking something similar.

What are Wales like at this age group?

[wackojacko]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thinking about it wouldn't it be good to have an international junior comp at this level tagged onto the WC in '21, I'm sure that Australia could manufacture teams such as Italy and Lebanon, maybe an Island collective decendent team, PNG would most likely be able to field a team as would France add in England, Aus and Kiwi, there we go an 8 team comp, perfect.

I think this is a great idea although I think at this level there's no point in manufacturing teams, taking the countries who are actually producing juniors (there generally being a little less disparity at this age group) would allow the best of developing nations to be scouted and help boost the national sides in the future.

[BroncoFan]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I was wondering about Farnworth for Brisbane - how come he didn’t get selected? We don’t want to lose him to Australia!!!

who's the Warrington second row you’re on about - Johnson? I didn’t realise he was still eligible 

Eribe Doro - big 17yo forward Warrington are expecting big things from him

[Dunbar]

42 minutes ago, Emosi Koloto said:

Eribe Doro - big 17yo forward Warrington are expecting big things from him

Why would he not be playing in these games? Surely these 2 tests (and the county ganes) alongside the training camps will have done a great deal for the development of the English lads.

As for Farnsworth, the NRL pre season is under way so I guess that was a hindrance but I can't wait to see this kid play.