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Damien

2025 World Cup - Not in US

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In that instance it should go to NSW as it supports alternating hemispheres too, but I think there has to be scope for accepting a smaller financial reward for supporting the likes of France and their development, plus also growing credibility of the tournament by staging it primarily outside of the UK and Oz.

I think we can have France as hosts with the UK supporting, as we can have NZ as hosts with Oz and PIs supporting.

This should help to reduce risk.

I wouldn't have England supporting. It risks splitting the competition and removing a big market from the French.

France is so close and relatively cheap and attractive to travel to that tourism is going to be one of cornerstones any French bid is built on. English tourism is going to be the major part of that. Properly organised and planned it would allow English fans to come over and take on 4/5/6 games over a weekend. That could be maybe a 20k market the French could build from. 

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2 minutes ago, bird said:

France already have the 2023 RUWC and the 2024 Olympics.

Which means they have lots of investment in sports and infrastructure to come that they will be looking to recoup no?

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10 minutes ago, bird said:

France already have the 2023 RUWC and the 2024 Olympics.

And should be even more inventive for the government to have another event in 2025. If the French RL don't ask they will never get and 2025 is a perfect moment. They used to be real pioneers in world Rugby League and it would be great if they could find that spirit again.

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Why does Rugby League obsess about the international game so much, especially since international rugby league is a huge joke with only 2 or 3 teams remotely capable of performing well without using a boatload of Australian "Heritage" players.

Strengthen and expand Super League and the NRL and make them better club competitions.  

NRL:  Get a team in Perth and a second team in New Zealand.

Super League:  Second team in France, bring in the Wolfpack, look to get maybe a third club in France and some other clubs in NA eventually.

Run a "Heineken Cup" style competition between Super League and NRL.  This would be far more interesting than the RLWC.

Take a page out of North American sport and grow the professional club game.  The NHL doesn't give a rats ass about international ice hockey and its far more successful than even Rugby Union as a commercial venture.

It even stood up to the IOC last winter olympics and nobody even cared.

Edited by CanadianRugger
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2 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Why does Rugby League obsess about the international game so much, especially since international rugby league is a huge joke with only 2 or 3 teams remotely capable of performing well without using a boatload of Australian "Heritage" players.

Strengthen and expand Super League and the NRL and make them better club competitions.  

NRL:  Get a team in Perth and a second team in New Zealand.

Super League:  Second team in France, bring in the Wolfpack, look to get maybe a third club in France and some other clubs in NA eventually.

Run a "Heineken Cup" style competition between Super League and NRL.  This would be far more interesting than the RLWC.

Take a page out of North American sport and grow the professional club game.  The NHL doesn't give a rats ass about international ice hockey and its far more successful than even Rugby Union as a commercial venture.

It even stood up to the IOC last winter olympics and nobody even cared.

RL gets more media coverage of international games than domestic SL matches. You can see how much RU makes from international test matches. I can’t comment for ice hockey or other American sports but it’s a different culture over there. International RL has become more competitive in recent years as more nations are playing it, just look at Tonga, there’s so much potential at international level

Google World Club Championship 1997 and that’ll tell you why a NRL and SL Cup comp dissent work as well as the World Club Series.

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4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Why does Rugby League obsess about the international game so much, especially since international rugby league is a huge joke with only 2 or 3 teams remotely capable of performing well without using a boatload of Australian "Heritage" players.

Strengthen and expand Super League and the NRL and make them better club competitions.  

NRL:  Get a team in Perth and a second team in New Zealand.

Super League:  Second team in France, bring in the Wolfpack, look to get maybe a third club in France and some other clubs in NA eventually.

Run a "Heineken Cup" style competition between Super League and NRL.  This would be far more interesting than the RLWC.

Take a page out of North American sport and grow the professional club game.  The NHL doesn't give a rats ass about international ice hockey and its far more successful than even Rugby Union as a commercial venture.

It even stood up to the IOC last winter olympics and nobody even cared.

Well, this is an international thread and so attracts interest from those who love that side of it. I also think they can be mutually enforcing, and help make our game more attractive to players like Taumalolo. 

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Not entirely surprising the Moore Sports bid has failed considering they went into liquidation on September 6th. And the article states that the RLIF put the 2025 tournament out to tender at the last board meeting. Nice to see it finally make the news somewhere at least. 

It would be nice if France could stage it, but it's doubtful the French Federation would be able to afford it. As far as I know they never make any noises about even looking into the possibility of staging it. 

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27 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Why does Rugby League obsess about the international game so much, especially since international rugby league is a huge joke with only 2 or 3 teams remotely capable of performing well without using a boatload of Australian "Heritage" players.

Maybe because some people don't think it is a joke and actually prefer it to the domestic competitions you mention and want to see more of it. Many also realise that we have only scratched the surface of the potential for the international game.

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If the French have a great RU World Cup in 2023 it will likely make Union have a boom pushing French RL further into the periphery. That and the added reason of having the World Cup twice in a row in the northern hemisphere makes me believe the best option for 2025 is NZ and the Pacific islands.

Domestic RU in NZ and the Southern Hemisphere is going to go into decline and 2025 will be an excellent time to for RL pounce.

 

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34 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I wouldn't have England supporting. It risks splitting the competition and removing a big market from the French.

France is so close and relatively cheap and attractive to travel to that tourism is going to be one of cornerstones any French bid is built on. English tourism is going to be the major part of that. Properly organised and planned it would allow English fans to come over and take on 4/5/6 games over a weekend. That could be maybe a 20k market the French could build from. 

I think it could be accommodated if creative. Many English tourists would perhaps be weekend tourists, so if England had games for maybe the first couple of weeks of the 6 weeks, then I think you would still get English supporting the games in France. English tourists wouldn't be able to head over for 6 weekends, so I think there is the opportunity to take some of the strain from France who may struggle with 31 games.

But it absolutely has to be clear who is main host, and I wouldn't give any knockouts at all to anyone else.

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34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think it could be accommodated if creative. Many English tourists would perhaps be weekend tourists, so if England had games for maybe the first couple of weeks of the 6 weeks, then I think you would still get English supporting the games in France. English tourists wouldn't be able to head over for 6 weekends, so I think there is the opportunity to take some of the strain from France who may struggle with 31 games.

But it absolutely has to be clear who is main host, and I wouldn't give any knockouts at all to anyone else.

You can include 3 full weekends in 17 days.

After that you are in to the knock out rounds. Thats the bulk of the games done.

Now you may not have everyone travelling over for 6 weekends but you will have x amount for the first, x amount for the 2nd, etc and y amount for the 2nd 3rd and 4th, y amount for the 3rd, 4th and 5th etc.

Each of those adding to more than one attendance. Playing any games in England are going to be the England games which will discourage people from going over and make the endeavour that much more difficult

The England games arent a strain, they would probably be the 2nd most valuable games to the french, if not the most valuable

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25 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You can include 3 full weekends in 17 days.

After that you are in to the knock out rounds. Thats the bulk of the games done.

Now you may not have everyone travelling over for 6 weekends but you will have x amount for the first, x amount for the 2nd, etc and y amount for the 2nd 3rd and 4th, y amount for the 3rd, 4th and 5th etc.

Each of those adding to more than one attendance. Playing any games in England are going to be the England games which will discourage people from going over and make the endeavour that much more difficult

The England games arent a strain, they would probably be the 2nd most valuable games to the french, if not the most valuable

Maybe, but the England games (and I would only do 2 of the 3 group games) would attract bigger crowds in England, therefore better for the tournament overall, and France could focus on France, NZ and Australia as their marquee games. Including opener, group games and all knockouts. Taking 4 to 6 games from France and getting good crowds in England would help the averages and not adversely affect the tournament overall. England would still get two games IN France, more if they progress past the quarters.

In 2000 and 2013 we gave France games and it worked well.

In reality we could see a group game of England V France, then England's QF, plus then their Semi final. And hopefully a final. That would still give England a huge presence in France for the tournament.

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If it was to be in France, maybe take a couple of 'lesser' games to Spain and Italy?

I'm not talking about using the Nou Camp or anything, but if Spain qualify maybe a game in a nice 10K stadium somewhere in Spanish Catalonia, and an Italy game in Milan.

Don't correctly, it could help spread the game into Southern Europe.

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1 hour ago, Blackpool rl said:

Domestic RU in NZ and the Southern Hemisphere is going to go into decline 

I'd love to know where this assertion comes from? 

The All Blacks are the ONLY game in town as far as the majority of Kiwis are concerned. Tonga RL are a bigger draw than the Kiwis themselves, or did you not notice the 2 crowds at Mt Smart a while back? The All Blacks certainly noticed, because they announced their final RWC warm up game next year will be against Tonga.

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I think France would be an excellent idea. However i think it would be good to take a couple of games outside of France. I think Spain should look to be one Nation that can host some games. A couple of games in Valencia where the Spanish RL is strong and also Barcelona. Italy hosting a couple maybe in the North and maybe two games in Belgrade as am sure they would get a decent crowd and they seem to have some money via Red Star.

I feel that getting some Rugby League World Cup Games in Nations which Rugby League has developed is a great reward and can only help it further. It really needs some key people maybe outside of the French Federation to be involved in running the WC in France ( and other Nations). We need to be selling the event ASAP and building on the success of Catalans as well as Toulouse. France like Spain, Italy and Serbia has alot of potential but the game needs to help them get there.

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4 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Here’s a question... this will be tendered out, and the RLIF will make sure they get genuinely guaranteed sums for it. If France bids (and we can’t make them however much we’d all love to see a tournament there) and guarantees 1m, whereas NSW guarantees 10m presumably the game needs to accept NSW’s bid. At what point do other factors come into play, and what should they be? 

You’d clearly have to adopt a balanced scorecard approach to evaluate the bids. If there are issues we’d be concerned about then make them really explicit in the assessment criteria, such as credible local development and human rights issues. Just needs a good lawyer and maybe someone with experience of other major events around the world to assist.

Some sports alternate rain makers with strategic growth areas, the RLIF could adopt this approach again and award the next two at the same time again. 

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33 minutes ago, SteelersWheeler said:

I'd love to know where this assertion comes from? 

The All Blacks are the ONLY game in town as far as the majority of Kiwis are concerned. Tonga RL are a bigger draw than the Kiwis themselves, or did you not notice the 2 crowds at Mt Smart a while back? The All Blacks certainly noticed, because they announced their final RWC warm up game next year will be against Tonga.

1. Player drain

2. Super rugby’s attendances decreased 25% on average in 2 years that’s 5,000.

 

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56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Maybe, but the England games (and I would only do 2 of the 3 group games) would attract bigger crowds in England, therefore better for the tournament overall, and France could focus on France, NZ and Australia as their marquee games. Including opener, group games and all knockouts. Taking 4 to 6 games from France and getting good crowds in England would help the averages and not adversely affect the tournament overall. England would still get two games IN France, more if they progress past the quarters.

In 2000 and 2013 we gave France games and it worked well.

In reality we could see a group game of England V France, then England's QF, plus then their Semi final. And hopefully a final. That would still give England a huge presence in France for the tournament.

They would probably attract bigger crowds in England but the value to that of a French WC is nil. Plus you would lose the additional value of those who did go to watch England attending other games in France. In fact you actively disincentivise people from traveling from England to France to watch those games, by holding England games in England. You would also seem fewer people traveling to watch the England games in France because they had already gotten the chance to see them play in England. Especially if you hold those games in say London or Newcastle or Coventry, the cost of which wouldnt be dramatically different to those of traveling to France.

 

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21 minutes ago, Blackpool rl said:

1. Player drain

2. Super rugby’s attendances decreased 25% on average in 2 years that’s 5,000.

How much of that is down to Australia and the neutral Japanese games though? Union is on life support in Australia, but seems to be as strong as ever in NZ, and still decently well supported in SA. Then you have Argentina and Japan (who for RU purposes are SH) who have both grown massively and places like South America have grown a lot. Is Union struggling is Australia? Yes. Oceania? Maybe. The SH as a whole? Nope.

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29 minutes ago, Chamey said:

How much of that is down to Australia and the neutral Japanese games though? Union is on life support in Australia, but seems to be as strong as ever in NZ, and still decently well supported in SA. Then you have Argentina and Japan (who for RU purposes are SH) who have both grown massively and places like South America have grown a lot. Is Union struggling is Australia? Yes. Oceania? Maybe. The SH as a whole? Nope.

Has there been any changes in Samoa and Tonga in playing numbers?

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7 minutes ago, Blackpool rl said:

Has there been any changes in Samoa and Tonga in playing numbers?

I don't know what the player numbers are, nor how to find them, but I know that Samoa RU's XV team is almost entirely born and trained in NZ. However Samoa and Tonga between them make up a town as large as Reading (300,000), and aren't really worth bothering about Imo, Fiji slightly less so, because their population is almost 1,000,000, and hence could feasibly support pro competitions or teams.

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