Ian Lenagan on the attack

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I would suspect that the 2nd part would have been the reason for the interview, but a grumble is much better for headline grabbing, so that gets the top billing.

 

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'd rather him ask answer a question honestly than lie or avoid it, which would be rather difficult in this case anyway. The point I'm trying to get at is that the Catalan question may have been a tiny part of the interview, say less than 5% but it was a lot more newsworthy than the 95% of guff that would have been talked about and which wouldn't have even been reported.

I don't disagree and addressed this in my previous reply to Damien, but (there will always be a but  ) Lenegan has been the public face of SLE's battle with the RFL. He isn't stupid, he could easily have avoided getting into that discussion had he wanted to. 

And I agree that this kind of stuff is more headline grabbing, but there was nothing new, I don't expect to see 10 other similar articles from the owners we haven't heard from on this point.

If Lenegan is happy still being seen as the point of confrontation between SLE and RFL that is his call, but he knows what he is doing.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, wilsontown said:

I suppose you could say it is a negative article, but is that down to Lenagan? He didn't write it after all. If the Guardian had led with his Barcelona predictions and relegated his RFL rant to the last couple of paragraphs it would come across quite differently.

 

Maybe, but when somebody publicly questions the competence of somebody else, it isn't that much of a stretch to expect some negativity back.

If Gareth Hock criticised Zak Hardaker for his conduct, I would expect Hock to get some flak!  

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

He was in charge in 2012...

IL is at his best when he shows his willingness to take risks, when he invests in people and gets a chance to grow the game. Hence our juniors, women’s teams, on the road games etc. 

He is right in this instance, but I wish he would focus more on his day job at times, rather than trying to run the game. 

Fair points, but if the RFL are being run by a bunch of numpties, then it's fair of him to point out that both he and other chairmen are being run with one hand tied behind their backs.

From his own point of view he has widened the name and appeal of Wigan, although not by much in hard cash terms.  There is a fair argument, albeit possibly a moot one, to suggest that a Magic Weekend (MW) should be abroad. Say, MW at HK?

[Damien]

Seems like this article was composed on the back of a media day at the club yesterday. Here is the Wigan Today version, which has no mention of the Catalans part but some interesting comments about the number of fixtures, which again I agree with:

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/wigan-warriors/will-wigan-warriors-camp-nou-game-draw-a-super-league-record-crowd-1-9539863

[redjonn]

At least RL is being talked about. Hence its in some peoples conscious memory that otherwise wouldn't think anything RL.

[sweaty craiq]

someone at the top should face a vote of no confidence over this decision

[whatmichaelsays]

7 hours ago, JohnM said:

To what extent were the RFL responsible for the promotion of the season 2012 compared with 2018.

This is a complete straw-man argument. It's not the RFL's job to sell or market tickets for Wigan games, nor is it their job to promote Wigan. They employ their own marketing, media and commercial teams to do exactly this. 

It's also not the RFL's fault that Wigan's recent accounts make pretty poor reading whilst, at the same time, other clubs are reporting surplusses:

Accounts to Nov 2017 - loss of £426k

Accounts to Nov 2016 - loss of £605k

Accounts to Nov 2015 - loss of £184k

Accounts to Nov 2014 - loss of £492k

It seems that "loss of sponsorship" seems to be a common theme in Wigan's accounts as well. If he's the best we have, that's pretty damn worrying. 

 

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

This is a complete straw-man argument. It's not the RFL's job to sell or market tickets for Wigan games, nor is it their job to promote Wigan. They employ their own marketing, media and commercial teams to do exactly this. 

It's also not the RFL's fault that Wigan's recent accounts make pretty poor reading whilst, at the same time, other clubs are reporting surplusses:

Accounts to Nov 2017 - loss of £426k

Accounts to Nov 2016 - loss of £605k

Accounts to Nov 2015 - loss of £184k

Accounts to Nov 2014 - loss of £492k

It seems that "loss of sponsorship" seems to be a common theme in Wigan's accounts as well. If he's the best we have, that's pretty damn worrying. 

 

This year will be interesting. Even in that Wigan article he just blames everyone else for Wigan's losses, blaming the S8s, when others posted better returns due to the bigger tv deal. 

There is a risk sometimes of going into victim mode and not focusing on the right things. Genuinely for the sake of the game I hope they start to do better as the more big clubs the better. Hull returned better crowds This year and other clubs match their revenue.

[whatmichaelsays]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This year will be interesting. Even in that Wigan article he just blames everyone else for Wigan's losses, blaming the S8s, when others posted better returns due to the bigger tv deal. 

 There is a risk sometimes of going into victim mode and not focusing on the right things. Genuinely for the sake of the game I hope they start to do better as the more big clubs the better. Hull returned better crowds This year and other clubs match their revenue.

Indeed. Lenaghan has some fair criticisms of the RFL and the old format, but he has form for trying to deflect his failings on the RFL (Wigan's issues with their landlords and the scheduling of home games one such example). If he is trying to blame £600k+ losses on people "not knowing when they'll be on holiday", then he's talking out of his backside. 

Michael Carter had the same claim, yet between the S8 fixtures being announced and Wakefield's first S8 home game last year, there were 16 days. Sorry, but if you can't market an event in 16 days, you're either not trying or you're just really, really bad at it.

[Exiled Wiganer]

IL continues to invest in the playing and coaching side, with massive wages and large numbers of employees. He also has valuable property assets within the company which could write off those losses in an instant. Plus of course he is very wealthy. I am proud of the emphasis he and the club give to development and fielding sides. He can keep on doing what he is doing as far as I am concerned.

[whatmichaelsays]

15 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

IL continues to invest in the playing and coaching side, with massive wages and large numbers of employees. He also has valuable property assets within the company which could write off those losses in an instant. Plus of course he is very wealthy. 

None of these are unique to IL or Wigan, yet I'd argue that the club's commercial performance is still poor compared to some of their contemporaries. 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

This is a complete straw-man argument. It's not the RFL's job to sell or market tickets for Wigan games, nor is it their job to promote Wigan. They employ their own marketing, media and commercial teams to do exactly this. 

It's also not the RFL's fault that Wigan's recent accounts make pretty poor reading whilst, at the same time, other clubs are reporting surplusses:

Accounts to Nov 2017 - loss of £426k

Accounts to Nov 2016 - loss of £605k

Accounts to Nov 2015 - loss of £184k

Accounts to Nov 2014 - loss of £492k

It seems that "loss of sponsorship" seems to be a common theme in Wigan's accounts as well. If he's the best we have, that's pretty damn worrying. 

 

It is the clubs job to pack em in (sales push)  just as it was the RFLs job (marketing pull) to promote the whole sport. Not something the RFL has excelled in, I'm sure you would agree. 

[Padge]

IL has invested heavily  in Wigan infrastructure, a huge amount has been spent on the training facilities at Orrell over the years. 

The club now aim to bring together their training centre at Orrell and their education facility at Central Park, they are taking over the Robin Park Arena facility from Wigan Council.

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/business/wigan-sports-facility-s-6m-upgrade-for-warriors-move-approved-1-9371484

 

[whatmichaelsays]

15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It is the clubs job to pack em in (sales push)  just as it was the RFLs job (marketing pull) to promote the whole sport. Not something the RFL has excelled in, I'm sure you would agree. 

It's the responsibility of each club to promote themselves, which in turn promotes the sport. Using the RFL as a lightning rod for failures at club level is wrong. 

The clubs are the primary point of consumption - its up to them to find the audiences that grow their respective clubs, and that grows the sport. 

[Kirmonds pouch]

16 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Ian Lenagan has shown once again why he is the best club chairman in all of Super League.

You jest surely?

[Wildcat]

7 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

You jest surely?

Jean Capdouze never jests. He's a WUM.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I suppose we will see whether SL will do any better now it has taken its destiny into its own hands. 

[paulwalker71]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The RFLs job isn't to sell Wigans tickets, but it was to create the best environment for Wigan to do so. Lenagan is pretty clear that the RFL did not do that and the reasons why. 

I wonder who he'll blame if Wigans crowds don't improve this season?

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I suppose we will see whether SL will do any better now it has taken its destiny into its own hands. 

Indeed, this has been my desire for a while. There are no excuses.

[JohnM]

42 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It's the responsibility of each club to promote themselves, which in turn promotes the sport. Using the RFL as a lightning rod for failures at club level is wrong. 

The clubs are the primary point of consumption - its up to them to find the audiences that grow their respective clubs, and that grows the sport. 

Rugby Football League: GOVERNING, SUPPORTING AND PROMOTING RUGBY LEAGUE IN THE UK

see https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl

The team is committed to developing and growing Rugby League at all levels. The RFL administers the England Rugby League team, the Ladbrokes Challenge Cup, Betfred Super League and the Kingstone Press Rugby League Championship and League 1 and also supports and administers the grassroots game. The RFL works in partnership with leagues, clubs and Rugby League Foundations to offer new ways to play, from Play Touch Rugby League to Wheelchair RL. Together, the sport is working hard to inspire and develop the next generation of young players and fans. 

see https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/about_the_rfl

[Exiled Wiganer]

19 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I wonder who he'll blame if Wigans crowds don't improve this season?

The day wigan’s crowds are in the top 10 of the game’s issues will be a happy one indeed.

[M j M]

Just because Lenagan makes a valid point about incompetence at the RFL (and I doubt this would have happened under Nigel Wood FWIW) doesn't mean he can lay claim to be the face of competence himself.

None of the other big clubs have seen such precipitous drops in crowds as his club. None of the other big clubs are as financially troubled as his club. None of the other big clubs have such a revolving door of sponsors as his club. 

It's fine to throw stones and often it's fully justified. But too often his stone throwing is an attempt to distract attention from the clear and pronounced failures of the management of his own club.

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

And what if they do? 

I'm sure he'll be quick to claim credit!

Hopefully all the SL clubs will be increasing their crowds. Wasn't that at least part of the reason for the SL clubs getting control of their own competition?

[whatmichaelsays]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The RFLs job isn't to sell Wigans tickets, but it was to create the best environment for Wigan to do so. Lenagan is pretty clear that the RFL did not do that and the reasons why. 

It's not /wasn't the RFL's job to do anything for Wigan. 

Other clubs were able to grow crowds and show better commercial performance under the same system that Wigan failed to do either in. I don't see why that is or ever should have been the RFL's mess to clean up. 

[JohnM]

As I have shown, that's incorrect. Yes, it's just one of Wigan's many responsibilities, but it's also one of the RFL's and that is written to the constitution.