"Jihadi Bride" story

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

It is perfectly legal to revoke citizenship under certain circumstances - the circumstances which have been set down in law.  Therefore, you cannot legitimately claim that the state revokes citizenship without any legal process.

I can claim. In fact, I’m fairly certain I did claim.

And the essential element remains the same: you are happy for a politician to have complete control without challenge.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Your post was in response to the wealth or otherwise of lawyers, not access to the legal system.

The two are quite remarkably entwined.

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I can claim. In fact, I’m fairly certain I did claim.

And the essential element remains the same: you are happy for a politician to have complete control without challenge.

Anyone whose citizenship is revoked can file an appeal and indeed just recently the revocation of two people's citizenship was judged to have been illegal.  So you are talking baloney. 

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The two are quite remarkably entwined.

Really?  Do working class lawyers not charge fees then?  Or is it just these non-working class lawyers you were talking about who charge fees?  

[Kayakman]

16 hours ago, Bob8 said:

 

 

I agree, a legal trial is best and would be the most effective way to tackle ISIS. 

 

The best way to tackle ISIS is with a round to the head or a full torso shot.

[Bob8]

10 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

The best way to tackle ISIS is with a round to the head or a full torso shot.

In the field of battle, you are right. 

But that is also obvious. 

If you were ISIS, how would you want the British Government to approach this domestically?

[GUBRATS]

16 hours ago, Graham said:

Dutch and American agencies say they have evidence she stitched Siucide bombers into explosive vests. She served in ISIL’ s morality police and carried a Kalashnikov rifle while being a strict enforcer of ISIL’s ‘laws’.  She worked to recruit others to join her in the jihadist group.

 

 

And her answer to those accusations ? , " If I hadn't done it , they would have beheaded me " , tell me how any Lawyer answers that ?

[Bob8]

51 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And her answer to those accusations ? , " If I hadn't done it , they would have beheaded me " , tell me how any Lawyer answers that ?

Sorry, do you not think she is clearly guilty?

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Sorry, do you not think she is clearly guilty?

Of what ? , Being stupid ? Yes , without doubt 

Of being a dangerous terrorist ? , Possibly , but impossible to prove , until it's too late 

Of being a whole load of trouble by becoming a radical Islamist martyr if she ends up back in the UK ? Without doubt 

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Of what ? , Being stupid ? Yes , without doubt 

Of being a dangerous terrorist ? , Possibly , but impossible to prove , until it's too late 

Of being a whole load of trouble by becoming a radical Islamist martyr if she ends up back in the UK ? Without doubt 

Interested to read you see the danger of making a martyr. We both share this concern. 

[Saintslass]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Of being a dangerous terrorist ? , Possibly , but impossible to prove , until it's too late 

Which, given that she planned her trip and deceived everyone in the process and has expressed on TV her ongoing support for ISIS, is why she is better kept out of the country.

Because her having an actual finger on the trigger (or on the suicide vest) is impossible to prove until it's too late.

[Private Baldrick]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The two are quite remarkably entwined.

How? 

[JohnM]

7 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I can claim. In fact, I’m fairly certain I did claim.

And the essential element remains the same: you are happy for a politician to have complete control without challenge.

You clearly are.

[Kayakman]

8 hours ago, Bob8 said:

In the field of battle, you are right. 

But that is also obvious. 

If you were ISIS, how would you want the British Government to approach this domestically?

ISIS really doesn't care Bob...they have a whole new set of far more serious problems...anything that can clog up the system of the enemy and cost them money would be good though.

[Bob8]

7 hours ago, Kayakman said:

ISIS really doesn't care Bob...they have a whole new set of far more serious problems...anything that can clog up the system of the enemy and cost them money would be good though.

Nonetheless, I would like an answer please. 

If you were ISIS, how would you want the British Government to approach this domestically?

[GeordieSaint]

On 01/06/2019 at 18:06, tonyXIII said:

My view is simple. "Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer." She joined a group which openly espoused its antipathy to all Western states, including the UK. She is a de facto enemy, however, if she makes her way to a British Consulate or equivalent, she should be brought back and face trial. If (?) found guilty, she should be tagged for life. (If I thought we could get away with it, I would have her microchipped)

I think this would respect her human rights and also ensure that justice is done and seen to be done, so we can all bask in the warm glow of our righteousness. We are better than ISIS and we do need to show this.

I think the UK has a blinkered view of itself in the world; it’s our own version of unconscious bias. We don’t understand what damage we have done to the world or how we are perceived by others. Yet we continually ram it down others throats that we are GREAT Britain and that we are the model for the world to follow; and then hide behind the actions of our grandparents to justify that argument despite the current reality being very different. What is supposed to set us apart is our adherence to the rule of law. We are losing narrative very very quickly...

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Nonetheless, I would like an answer please. 

If you were ISIS, how would you want the British Government to approach this domestically?

I did clearly answer your question Bob...they don't care and wouldn't have any position on this question other than to clog up/cost Western society money/time/resources which they would consider as a general good.  If let back into Western society if she could bomb/kill a large amount of people and disrupt the lives of regular people by causing terror, then that would be considered productive by their perverted standards. 

I'm sorry this is not the answer that you want...but it is the truth and you asked for it.

[Niels]

2 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think the UK has a blinkered view of itself in the world; it’s our own version of unconscious bias. We don’t understand what damage we have done to the world or how we are perceived by others. Yet we continually ram it down others throats that we are GREAT Britain and that we are the model for the world to follow; and then hide behind the actions of our grandparents to justify that argument despite the current reality being very different. What is supposed to set us apart is our adherence to the rule of law. We are losing narrative very very quickly...

ISIS prefer to have their personnel returned to their country of origin and tried there. 

Also I am no flag waving supporter of Great Britain but I am surprised by how well respected the country is abroad.

I always learn the language at least to a basic level if I travel and I've never heard negatives.

In a lot of other countries people would never write such criticism of their own country and find it strange that people do of here. 

Most immigrants or people with ethnic origins here ar proud of the UK and mostly it is the extremists who use the negativity to recruit. It's propaganda not true.

[Bob8]

3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I did clearly answer your question Bob...they don't care and wouldn't have any position on this question other than to clog up/cost Western society money/time/resources which they would consider as a general good.  If let back into Western society if she could bomb/kill a large amount of people and disrupt the lives of regular people by causing terror, then that would be considered productive by their perverted standards. 

I'm sorry this is not the answer that you want...but it is the truth and you asked for it.

It is not an honest answer. 

If nothing we do has any effect, then we can just do what we feel like. I get that, it is another assertion that your feelings are really important. 

But it is clearly BS and it is rude to BS me with such a facetious answer. 

[Shadow]

20 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I did clearly answer your question Bob...they don't care and wouldn't have any position on this question other than to clog up/cost Western society money/time/resources which they would consider as a general good.  If let back into Western society if she could bomb/kill a large amount of people and disrupt the lives of regular people by causing terror, then that would be considered productive by their perverted standards. 

I'm sorry this is not the answer that you want...but it is the truth and you asked for it.

So how would you like the British Government to act?
 

[Kayakman]

3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

It is not an honest answer. 

If nothing we do has any effect, then we can just do what we feel like. I get that, it is another assertion that your feelings are really important. 

But it is clearly BS and it is rude to BS me with such a facetious answer. 

Bob, you know we have always gotten along and it is an honest answer.

ISIS doesn't care about what happens to this girl...they could care less.  Possibly she could have further use as a propaganda tool, then just toss her away like a used rag.

Of course what the UK gov't does has an effect, people are watching.  By denying this terrorist her citizenship the UK gov't has taken an ethical stand; they have made a clear moral statement. 

ISIS are murdering cutthroats and terrorists of the highest standard.  They are a scourge on our human race with their brainwashed lunatics and low/rigid religious philosophy...they are monsters who willingly partake in a death cult and would slit any Western throat in a second....they are evil personified.

  Do you not understand that that is their starting and finishing position Bob?  Sometimes it hard to accept the truth for what it is Bob....ISIS HAS NO HIGHER STANDARD; THATS THE TRUTH OF IT.

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, Shadow said:

So how would you like the British Government to act?
 

My understanding is that the British Government is under no formal obligation to act in this matter at this time.

[Wiltshire Rhino]

If there is evidence she has committed a crime then she should definitely stand trial.

However I don't see why should that trial be in Britain? Surely the trial should be held in the country where the (alleged) crime took place. 

[Bob8]

19 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Bob, you know we have always gotten along and it is an honest answer.

ISIS doesn't care about what happens to this girl...they could care less.  Possibly she could have further use as a propaganda tool, then just toss her away like a used rag.

Of course what the UK gov't does has an effect, people are watching.  By denying this terrorist her citizenship the UK gov't has taken an ethical stand; they have made a clear moral statement. 

ISIS are murdering cutthroats and terrorists of the highest standard.  They are a scourge on our human race with their brainwashed lunatics and low/rigid religious philosophy...they are monsters who willingly partake in a death cult and would slit any Western throat in a second....they are evil personified.

  Do you not understand that that is their starting and finishing position Bob?  Sometimes it hard to accept the truth for what it is Bob....ISIS HAS NO HIGHER STANDARD; THATS THE TRUTH OF IT.

With due respect, this thread is a handful pretending that they are arguing against people saying we should let ISIS off. But these posters are on “transmit not receive” so what they say about other posters may be other than true. 

In this case it is very much other. 

For the most part, the rest of the thread has a grown up discussion on the best way to stop ISIS. That ISIS are terrible is obvious. On the battlefield, it is vital to be effective (I have not fought, so I am no expert). 

ISIS also managed to get support from regimes.

And gained credibility with some people in western countries, and often educated people. It is okay to dismiss this as unimportant (see that was me playing the trick of making a virtue out of an opinion). The question is how do we undermine the credibility of ISIS among such potential targets.

The answer seems to be clear from western nations experience in these matters. Treat it as a legal matter, and turn your enemies into friends.  That is not nice, there is no catharsis, but it is effective. Many on this thread are happier with ISIS being stronger as long as they get catharsis- then the horror does not matter for them. Personally, I think the terror should be tackled.

[gingerjon]

35 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

If there is evidence she has committed a crime then she should definitely stand trial.

However I don't see why should that trial be in Britain? Surely the trial should be held in the country where the (alleged) crime took place. 

The thing I don’t understand is that it appears she was groomed for Jihad from a very young age by an extended British based family and network.

And yet we have heard nothing about them being prosecuted.