WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

[DOGFATHER]

15 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

What are their means? How many full-time pros could they afford?

Cheating? Come on.

Why do you not answer the questions Scotchy?

Your lame attempts to deflect and shy away from arguments you do not have an answer for, has frankly become rather tiresome and boring. Some members of the forum may be happy to continue to feed your over inflated ego, however, I am not be one of them. So welcome to the ignore button.

The only time I will read your posts in the future will be in the unlikely event that Leeds get relegated, just to see how quickly your view of the lower divisions changes and funding. Although, you strike me as the sort of fan that won't care if they do, as you will move on to supporting whoever else in with a shout of winning something.

[fieldofclothofgold]

This thread is looking a bit like AOB 

[TrueBull]

13 hours ago, wasginger said:

Scotchy, you just don't understand the economics of councils. There is no more money for any groups. How many times in the past 5 years have Bradford had different directors, and yet the position is still the same. even the RL bought  Odsal to allow Bradford to play there, if the rent Bradford had to pay to the RL was too high, then the decision to look for an alternative ground should have been taken.

That's the spin the RFL put out at the time. The other way of looking at it would be that  RFL bought Odsal head lease to convert the £900k unsecured loan they'd foolishly given Bradford 6months previously (and were now starting to take criticism for) into an asset, to cover their own backsides.

[Hemi4561]

10 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

That's the spin the RFL put out at the time. The other way of looking at it would be that  RFL bought Odsal to convert the £900k unsecured loan they'd foolishly given Bradford 6months previously (and were now starting to take criticism for) into an asset, to cover their own backsides.

They didn't buy Odsal.

[Ackroman]

9 hours ago, paul hicks said:

perhaps then west Yorkshire should take a look at amalgamating into say GREATER LEEDS . one large council with better funding to rival Manchester as the northern powerhouse

WYMDC was abolished in the 90's. It was just another layer of beauracrats.

[Trojan]

16 hours ago, thepimp007 said:

What on earth is wrong with a business being proactive? Thats how it has to be looked at. Because my company is based in Wakefield should we not promote our product in surrounding areas? Hate reading the poor tale cried by clubs in the locality when the liklihood was that the Bulls enticed fans who werent going to said local clubs games anyway, and while on the point what did said local clubs do themselves other than sit and wait for new support to come through the gates

Rugby League is a game not a business.  The clubs are dependent upon one another.  If we had true franchising then clubs would be forbidden from poaching one another's territory. But more to the point Bradford were not just advertising their games in the areas I said, they were undercutting the ticket prices of those clubs, and apparently losing money in the process.  When the hit the fan, and they were holding out the begging bowl, they expected the RFL to support them.  The RFL some of whose numbers they had spent years undermining.  I was told that they were going round with the buckets at the Fev cup game, expecting Fev supporters to donate. But if the rumours about the CCJ's is true, Fev are one of the clubs they withheld gate money from.

Sport is s business but a business unlike other businesses because it depends on goodwill between the clubs.  Bradford, certainly  in the past appear to have ruined any goodwill that existed, by their actions.

[John Drake]

10 hours ago, paul hicks said:

perhaps then west Yorkshire should take a look at amalgamating into say GREATER LEEDS . one large council with better funding to rival Manchester as the northern powerhouse 

Like this, you mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_City_Region

We run the risk of heading down a political rabbit hole here, but it isn't as if local politicians of all parties haven't been grappling with these complex issues for many years.

To keep it as 'on topic' as possible: There's not enough money to go round. That's the bottom line. Of all the many and competing needs for public money in a city like Bradford, Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium are waaaaaaay down the pecking order and it should not be viewed as a potential source of relief for the club or the sport. They'll have to find their own solutions somehow. Pretending otherwise is just indulging in a pointless fantasy.

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

You have fallen in to the same trap as the other guy.

The argument is against cuts, not putting different needs against each other.

What is, isnt what will always be.

It's not a trap, it's reality.

You're just flogging a fantasy, pretending public money is a solution when it isn't actually available.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Like this, you mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_City_Region

We run the risk of heading down a political rabbit hole here, but it isn't as if local politicians of all parties haven't been grappling with these complex issues for many years.

To keep it as 'on topic' as possible: There's not enough money to go round. That's the bottom line. Of all the many and competing needs for public money in a city like Bradford, Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium are waaaaaaay down the pecking order and it should not be viewed as a potential source of relief for the club or the sport. They'll have to find their own solutions somehow. Pretending otherwise is just indulging in a pointless fantasy.

But you maybe as lucky (if a supporter) or unlucky (if merely a council tax payer) as the citizens of WMDC......

[paul hicks]

9 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Like this, you mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_City_Region

We run the risk of heading down a political rabbit hole here, but it isn't as if local politicians of all parties haven't been grappling with these complex issues for many years.

To keep it as 'on topic' as possible: There's not enough money to go round. That's the bottom line. Of all the many and competing needs for public money in a city like Bradford, Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium are waaaaaaay down the pecking order and it should not be viewed as a potential source of relief for the club or the sport. They'll have to find their own solutions somehow. Pretending otherwise is just indulging in a pointless fantasy.

indeed but to bring it into one council not a whole host of petty rivalry . Leeds have shown how to make progress so I would say centre the governance in Leeds as its the place business has heard of and Leeds have a proven track record of been proactive in getting inward investment in the private sector. as money from the government decreases and with that money to pay for public services there is a need to get away from around 50% of employment been in the public sector and to do as Leeds have and bring in the private sector  and in this respect Leeds have done well with I think  78% of all employment been in the private sector .

if the city of Bradford does go it alone then with the reduced income I would see there just been one stadium of note in Bradford which I suspect would be valley parade and perhaps the council could buy back the lease of odsal from the RFL and change the condition of planning of the site to commercial rather than sport which would greatly increase the value if they sold the freehold

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, paul hicks said:

indeed but to bring it into one council not a whole host of petty rivalry . Leeds have shown how to make progress so I would say centre the governance in Leeds as its the place business has heard of and Leeds have a proven track record of been proactive in getting inward investment in the private sector. as money from the government decreases and with that money to pay for public services there is a need to get away from around 50% of employment been in the public sector and to do as Leeds have and bring in the private sector  and in this respect Leeds have done well with I think  78% of all employment been in the private sector .

if the city of Bradford does go it alone then with the reduced income I would see there just been one stadium of note in Bradford which I suspect would be valley parade and perhaps the council could buy back the lease of odsal from the RFL and change the condition of planning of the site to commercial rather than sport which would greatly increase the value if they sold the freehold

The issue of how local governance should be organised is a whole separate thread. 

Personally, I don't think one 'super council' based in Leeds is the answer.

You don't improve local government by making it more remote.

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It is and can be and frequently will be.

The Rhinos and YCCC have literally just spent tens of millions of pounds with council help on building new facilities and it didnt cost the council a penny. We saw another stand built by a university

We saw the local government in wales pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to stage magic

We saw WMDC loan Wakefield £3m to buy Belle Vue

We have seen local councils up and down the country bid for RLWC2021 games

Newcastle city council bidding for the opening ceremony and estimating its value at £13m to the local economy https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/newcastle-economy-benefit-13m-hosting-15748138.amp

There are community sports facilities up and down the country and councils contributing to them constantly

Why are the contributions of public bodies to the headingley redevelopment actual concrete but any contribution to bradford fantasy?

Here are the contact details for Susan Hinchcliffe, the Leader of Bradford Council.

https://bradford.moderngov.co.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=152

Go tell her how easy and simple all this is.

[paul hicks]

12 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The issue of how local governance should be organised is a whole separate thread. 

Personally, I don't think one 'super council' based in Leeds is the answer.

You don't improve local government by making it more remote.

your right it is a different thread but I just replied to other comments already made . 

as for making a council more remote well perhaps part of the problem is that they are indeed to local and get caught up in the kind of petty squabbles we see in Bradford and indeed a few other councils . ok have the present little councils made into kind of super parish councils and give them a few quid to fight over in there local ego trips in local government but just as in business size does matter when negotiating deals and a unfiled west Yorkshire council or greater Leeds as a more recognisable title for business.

as you said Leeds got 3 new stands at very reasonable rates one paid for by a university and the more recent ones by long term funding on very reasonable rates that was backed up by a guarantee from a big council with a great record of dealing with business and attracting inward investment which to be honest the bigger the authority the better the chance of getting such deals.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Maybe the current management should/could have got a better deal from both the RFL and Council over Odsal. It seems that Bradford have a deal that hurts them. Could this have been avoided with talks a couple of years back?

Would it not make sense to have a community Stadium in Bradford which is open for various Sports similar to how other venues like The Shay, LSV, New Crown Flatt etc work? 5 aside football Courts, Tennis Courts, Facilities used for Weddings etc? Seems lots of space to use at Odsal. Yes some money needs to be used but you would get that back from grants and over the use of more facilities over the years. Dewsbury and Calderdale Council make much money from 5 a side courts.

I feel it would be a big mistake for Bradford to play outside the city long term with no real plan to return. yes a number of fans live outside the city. But look at the struggles Oldham and Swinton have had over the years playing at various venues around Manchester area. Even Oldham now have a stadium that doesnt help them progress as in not a good area for them. Its important to make the right decision for Bradford long term not just short term..

[John Drake]

29 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Here are the contact details of Judith Blake, leader of Leeds city council 

https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=107

Go tell her the arena they own didnt cost £60m to build and doesnt contribute £25m  year to the local economy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/leeds/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8572000/8572504.stm that big green building just off Merrion Street is just a fantasy

We can also tell her the millions invested in headingley didnt happen and The Rhinos dont have two new stands and YCCC haven't improved their stadium to get the ashes worth about £5m just for that event

I give up.

It's impossible to engage constructively with a fantasist.

Bradford isn't Leeds.

But what do I know, I've only lived there for 53 years.

[Lowdesert]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I give up.

It's impossible to engage constructively with a fantasist.

Bradford isn't Leeds.

But what do I know, I've only lived there for 53 years.

Seen the light at last.

[paul hicks]

18 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Maybe the current management should/could have got a better deal from both the RFL and Council over Odsal. It seems that Bradford have a deal that hurts them. Could this have been avoided with talks a couple of years back?

Would it not make sense to have a community Stadium in Bradford which is open for various Sports similar to how other venues like The Shay, LSV, New Crown Flatt etc work? 5 aside football Courts, Tennis Courts, Facilities used for Weddings etc? Seems lots of space to use at Odsal. Yes some money needs to be used but you would get that back from grants and over the use of more facilities over the years. Dewsbury and Calderdale Council make much money from 5 a side courts.

I feel it would be a big mistake for Bradford to play outside the city long term with no real plan to return. yes a number of fans live outside the city. But look at the struggles Oldham and Swinton have had over the years playing at various venues around Manchester area. Even Oldham now have a stadium that doesnt help them progress as in not a good area for them. Its important to make the right decision for Bradford long term not just short term..

the management signed a deal so they must have been ok with it . they just now see that with a bit of moaning they may get a cheaper one. 

the community stadium is a good idea but lets face facts the lay out of odsal is against it a big hole in the ground with land available above it  . in fact while the idea is a good one then perhaps it would be cheaper to build a new community stadium more than likely at less cost to everyone involved . 

the costs of bringing odsal up to a standard as a community stadium I venture would be higher than finding a spare council owned plot and building a new facility similar to say the south Leeds stadium but with more terracing  . most of the costs would be covered by selling the freehold of odsal in fact there could even be a profit for the council

[paul hicks]

30 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I give up.

It's impossible to engage constructively with a fantasist.

Bradford isn't Leeds.

But what do I know, I've only lived there for 53 years.

no Bradford is not Leeds but at one time it rivalled Leeds as a centre of industry . the decline in Bradford actually helped Leeds to grow as Bradford like a number of other west Yorkshire towns got a reputation for decline and did themselves no favours with a more inward looking self blame culture but Leeds took the other option and gave out the positives and encouraged the new industries and now has the 3rd biggest financial sector in England and is a centre for innovation in technology. now the boat is long gone for those smaller councils to reverse the process on there own as its akin to a corner shop when a Tesco or LIDI move in and they just struggle to survive yet many do by joining those small shops groups and getting greater value with bulk buying  . as I said earlier becoming a bigger business is the key which means less but bigger councils 

[TrueBull]

https://www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/article/53166/these-might-be-the-last-games-at-odsal--bexit-looms

Several things of interest in that. The main one being he refused to sign a lease due to his affordability concerns.

[John Drake]

14 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

no Bradford is not Leeds but at one time it rivalled Leeds as a centre of industry . the decline in Bradford actually helped Leeds to grow as Bradford like a number of other west Yorkshire towns got a reputation for decline and did themselves no favours with a more inward looking self blame culture but Leeds took the other option and gave out the positives and encouraged the new industries and now has the 3rd biggest financial sector in England and is a centre for innovation in technology. now the boat is long gone for those smaller councils to reverse the process on there own as its akin to a corner shop when a Tesco or LIDI and they just struggle to survive yet many do by joining those small shops groups and getting greater value with bulk buying  . as I said earlier becoming a bigger business is the key which means less but bigger councils 

A discussion on the structure of local governance is for another thread (if anyone would like to start one, AOB is the place for it). It's a massive, complex subject that goes way beyond the immediate concerns of Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium. All I'd say here is that if you want it to work and get the public behind it, calling a new structure 'Leeds' anything (as in Leeds City Region) is doomed. It needs a Yorkshire-wide brand.

None of that is going to happen by 15th August, which is the date, according to Andrew Chalmers, that Bradford Bulls will make a decision on whether to leave Odsal Stadium or not.

[paul hicks]

18 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

https://www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/article/53166/these-might-be-the-last-games-at-odsal--bexit-looms

Several things of interest in that. The main one being he refused to sign a lease due to his affordability concerns.

he lost me when he started talking about bumbling Boris or was he saying he is the Bradford equivalent of boris 

[Blind side johnny]

36 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Seen the light at last.

Yep. Many of us blanked the troll years ago.

[paul hicks]

Just now, John Drake said:

A discussion on the structure of local governance is for another thread (if anyone would like to start one, AOB is the place for it). It's a massive, complex subject that goes way beyond the immediate concerns of Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium. All I'd say here is that if you want it to work and get the public behind it, calling a new structure 'Leeds' anything (as in Leeds City Region) is doomed. It needs a Yorkshire-wide brand.

None of that is going to happen by 15th August, which is the date, according to Andrew Chalmers, that Bradford Bulls will make a decision on whether to leave Odsal Stadium or not.

seems he has now given sept 30th as a date . to be honest I stopped reading when he got on his hobby horse and started mentioning Boris.

tell you what go to Berne and mention west Yorkshire to a businessman and he will say where? then say Leeds and he will say ah yes Leeds  and quite possibly mention he has been there. that's why you need a name people know 

[Blind side johnny]

32 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

the management signed a deal so they must have been ok with it . they just now see that with a bit of moaning they may get a cheaper one. 

the community stadium is a good idea but lets face facts the lay out of odsal is against it a big hole in the ground with land available above it  . in fact while the idea is a good one then perhaps it would be cheaper to build a new community stadium more than likely at less cost to everyone involved . 

the costs of bringing odsal up to a standard as a community stadium I venture would be higher than finding a spare council owned plot and building a new facility similar to say the south Leeds stadium but with more terracing  . most of the costs would be covered by selling the freehold of odsal in fact there could even be a profit for the council

It could, of course, simply be culture (I'm guesing here). Possibly in NZ this is the way to negotiate with local authorities by bleating about "them" all the time whilst establishing your own righteous credentials.

[Mr Plow]

Makes a good point about education and sport. There has been a lot of money spent in Bradford on the Odeon/ Bradford Live and George’s Hall. Perhaps money could be spent on a sport/ education centre that Bulls and Park Avenue can play at. After all we keep being told about the child obesity epidemic, maybe a sports education centre is the way forward