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SBW signs for Toronto - Confirmed

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3 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

The best thing SL could do then is announce no relegation at the end of next season and a 14 team SL in 2021 - imagine if TWP get relegated, SBW will be off and TWP will probably fold.

If they can compete, and that's a big if given the jump from Champ to SL, then Hudds, KR and Wakey will be  crapping themselves.

You expect SL to close the door to again protect a club? Or just one player! Yet the heartland  clubs who have made SL from Championship then failed,you have no qualms in ignoring.

Amazing..

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4 hours ago, SL17 said:

You expect SL to close the door to again protect a club? Or just one player! Yet the heartland  clubs who have made SL from Championship then failed,you have no qualms in ignoring.

Amazing..

Clueless. Completely clueless.

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8 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

The best thing SL could do then is announce no relegation at the end of next season and a 14 team SL in 2021 - imagine if TWP get relegated, SBW will be off and TWP will probably fold.

If they can compete, and that's a big if given the jump from Champ to SL, then Hudds, KR and Wakey will be  crapping themselves.

This is the one thing that us in Australia cant get our heads around, how can you have Promotion and Relegation in a competition that is regulated by a salary cap, its like telling Usain Bolt he has to run the heats in bare feet and then walk around in shock if he doesn't make the final.

 If you want Promotion and Relegation, open the floodgates and get rid of the salary cap. The top of the competition will get stronger and there will be no concern for the marquee clubs to be relegated, the weaker will fall away and create a regular battle for survival at the bottom. What would be the benefit to the competition of Leeds being relegated for Fev. (Almost happened remember)

The NRL would never have relegation (you know, the competition with the $2B TV deal). Big sponsors dont want to play Russian Roulette on whether teams will be in or out each year, they need stability. Most of the teams in the NRL have long term sponsors, how do the bottom teams in Super League attract Major Sponsors for multiple years when they cant guarantee their spot in the competition.  Over the last 10 years, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Parra, Cronulla and the Roosters (yep, the roosters) have finished last, imagine if they were relegated and for some reason or another didnt get back in and were replaced by Burleigh, Wentworthville, Newtown, Ipswich etc, that $2B is disappearing fast.

I know the scenarios above are far fetched, but why put everything to chance like Super League does. We here all the talk about how good it would be for the game if Toulouse were in Super League but then sit back and hope they make it. How about putting together a strategic plan to get them into Super League with a plan to guarantee their place, grow their brand and also grow the game in France, instead of leaving it to chance that they make it.

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7 hours ago, SL17 said:

You expect SL to close the door to again protect a club? Or just one player! Yet the heartland  clubs who have made SL from Championship then failed,you have no qualms in ignoring.

Amazing..

I dont think I said that son. I said no relegation next season- so that's every club and it would let every club plan for 2 years.

The following season when there are 14 teams revert back to 1 up and 1 down - far more chance then of decent sized SL clubs staying up in a 14 team league - Amazing.. how you didnt read the original post correctly

Edited by Mr Frisky
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8 hours ago, Kayakman said:

If Toronto got relegated SBW would not be going anywhere and no one would fold.....we would simply reload!  People still don't get it on here...Toronto is here to stay...the relationship that Argyle and the season ticket holders have formed will stand any test of time.    ARGYLE WILL KEEP THE PACK UNTIL HE IS EITHER DEAD OR BROKE (or both)....AND HE IS A MULTI BILLIONAIRE (so I don't think we need to worry about that end of it).

P.S.   We intend to make the top 5 this season.

I dont think you get it lad - SBW will not play Championship RL at 35 years old infront of 1000 fans at Whitehaven or some equally poor ground.

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50 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I really can't see them going down. 

That's the major change from last year. In all honesty London surprised everyone by keeping themselves in the fight till the final day, but realistically they were the majorities favourite to go down from day 1. Toronto on the other hand are not and that throws the whole league wide open.

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London were a fantastic story last year 😕🙆‍♂️


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4 hours ago, Balmain1969 said:

This is the one thing that us in Australia cant get our heads around, how can you have Promotion and Relegation in a competition that is regulated by a salary cap, its like telling Usain Bolt he has to run the heats in bare feet and then walk around in shock if he doesn't make the final.

 If you want Promotion and Relegation, open the floodgates and get rid of the salary cap. The top of the competition will get stronger and there will be no concern for the marquee clubs to be relegated, the weaker will fall away and create a regular battle for survival at the bottom. What would be the benefit to the competition of Leeds being relegated for Fev. (Almost happened remember)

The NRL would never have relegation (you know, the competition with the $2B TV deal). Big sponsors dont want to play Russian Roulette on whether teams will be in or out each year, they need stability. Most of the teams in the NRL have long term sponsors, how do the bottom teams in Super League attract Major Sponsors for multiple years when they cant guarantee their spot in the competition.  Over the last 10 years, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Parra, Cronulla and the Roosters (yep, the roosters) have finished last, imagine if they were relegated and for some reason or another didnt get back in and were replaced by Burleigh, Wentworthville, Newtown, Ipswich etc, that $2B is disappearing fast.

I know the scenarios above are far fetched, but why put everything to chance like Super League does. We here all the talk about how good it would be for the game if Toulouse were in Super League but then sit back and hope they make it. How about putting together a strategic plan to get them into Super League with a plan to guarantee their place, grow their brand and also grow the game in France, instead of leaving it to chance that they make it.

Promotion/Relegation seems to be good enough for Premiership Football who have little difficulty in attracting global sponsor's or TV deals worldwide so while it may be a 'British' thing it's one that should be persevered with for the excitement it adds.

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4 hours ago, Balmain1969 said:

This is the one thing that us in Australia cant get our heads around, how can you have Promotion and Relegation in a competition that is regulated by a salary cap, its like telling Usain Bolt he has to run the heats in bare feet and then walk around in shock if he doesn't make the final.

 If you want Promotion and Relegation, open the floodgates and get rid of the salary cap. The top of the competition will get stronger and there will be no concern for the marquee clubs to be relegated, the weaker will fall away and create a regular battle for survival at the bottom. What would be the benefit to the competition of Leeds being relegated for Fev. (Almost happened remember)

The NRL would never have relegation (you know, the competition with the $2B TV deal). Big sponsors dont want to play Russian Roulette on whether teams will be in or out each year, they need stability. Most of the teams in the NRL have long term sponsors, how do the bottom teams in Super League attract Major Sponsors for multiple years when they cant guarantee their spot in the competition.  Over the last 10 years, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Parra, Cronulla and the Roosters (yep, the roosters) have finished last, imagine if they were relegated and for some reason or another didnt get back in and were replaced by Burleigh, Wentworthville, Newtown, Ipswich etc, that $2B is disappearing fast.

I know the scenarios above are far fetched, but why put everything to chance like Super League does. We here all the talk about how good it would be for the game if Toulouse were in Super League but then sit back and hope they make it. How about putting together a strategic plan to get them into Super League with a plan to guarantee their place, grow their brand and also grow the game in France, instead of leaving it to chance that they make it.

I think this post is excellent. Things have moved on since the 80s and 90s, and for Super League to be able to attract commercial and broadcast partners, the above must be taken in to consideration.

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4 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

I dont think you get it lad - SBW will not play Championship RL at 35 years old infront of 1000 fans at Whitehaven or some equally poor ground.

You don't need to worry about it...it ain't gonna happen...and even if it did he would do it...everyone likes to earn a big paycheck.

I don't think you get it yet laddie.

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54 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Promotion/Relegation seems to be good enough for Premiership Football who have little difficulty in attracting global sponsor's or TV deals worldwide so while it may be a 'British' thing it's one that should be persevered with for the excitement it adds.

The difference is that the Premier League could have Man United and Chelsea relegated in the same season and it would not be a disaster for that league. They probably wouldn’t want that to happen like but it could easily withstand it happening.

In RL, losing one of its few big clubs could be a disaster, like Bradford. I can see the argument from an excitement POV but it’s not comparing like with like. 

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36 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

You don't need to worry about it...it ain't gonna happen...and even if it did he would do it...everyone likes to earn a big paycheck.

I don't think you get it yet laddie.

I hope your right marra. I've always supported TWP and was delighted when they won promotion.

However TWP squad is still mainly made up of reserve standard and aging SL players. It's hard to explain how much of a step up it is to maintain a good run in SL as any average set of players get found out over the season.

You see it all the time in the CC when really good Champ teams compete for 60 mins but then get blown away in the last 20 as all they have been doing is defending. It's been like that for many years.

I predict a lot of late losses for TWP this season, they will compete but can they concentrate for the full 80? - with the current players???

Still looking forward to next season though.

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1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

However TWP squad is still mainly made up of reserve standard and aging SL players. It's hard to explain how much of a step up it is to maintain a good run in SL as any average set of players get found out over the season.

You see it all the time in the CC when really good Champ teams compete for 60 mins but then get blown away in the last 20 as all they have been doing is defending. It's been like that for many years.

I can see that aspect mate, but they do have a lot of genuine quality in that squad which should be enough to see them at least mid table imo. SBW, Leutele, Obrien, Stanley, Mellor, Thompson, Wilkin, Russell etc plus any other new signings is the core of a decent platform.

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56 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I can see that aspect mate, but they do have a lot of genuine quality in that squad which should be enough to see them at least mid table imo. SBW, Leutele, Obrien, Stanley, Mellor, Thompson, Wilkin, Russell etc plus any other new signings is the core of a decent platform.

Yep hope I'm wrong, would love to see them shake things up rather than them being a difficult away game that is winnable and an easy home win - Like Cats have been for the past 10 years.

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

The difference is that the Premier League could have Man United and Chelsea relegated in the same season and it would not be a disaster for that league. They probably wouldn’t want that to happen like but it could easily withstand it happening.

In RL, losing one of its few big clubs could be a disaster, like Bradford. I can see the argument from an excitement POV but it’s not comparing like with like. 

When is this "disaster" likely to occur? Bradford were lost to Super League over 5 years ago and we still seem to be waiting.

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1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

I hope your right marra. I've always supported TWP and was delighted when they won promotion.

However TWP squad is still mainly made up of reserve standard and aging SL players. It's hard to explain how much of a step up it is to maintain a good run in SL as any average set of players get found out over the season.

You see it all the time in the CC when really good Champ teams compete for 60 mins but then get blown away in the last 20 as all they have been doing is defending. It's been like that for many years.

I predict a lot of late losses for TWP this season, they will compete but can they concentrate for the full 80? - with the current players???

Still looking forward to next season though.

I understand your reasoning but just can't agree with it...I see a top 5 finish this year with Sonny Bill leading the way.

Of course we will lose some games and not walk the board like the last few years but I see us having the skill and determination to make the playoffs in the top 5.

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2 hours ago, Clogiron said:

Promotion/Relegation seems to be good enough for Premiership Football who have little difficulty in attracting global sponsor's or TV deals worldwide so while it may be a 'British' thing it's one that should be persevered with for the excitement it adds.

You forgot the part about Premier League having no salary cap.  I think if P/R is kept, it only makes sense to get rid of the cap.

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5 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I understand your reasoning but just can't agree with it...I see a top 5 finish this year with Sonny Bill leading the way.

Of course we will lose some games and not walk the board like the last few years but I see us having the skill and determination to make the playoffs in the top 5.

I think reality is about to make an appearance K-man.

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2 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

I hope your right marra. I've always supported TWP and was delighted when they won promotion.

However TWP squad is still mainly made up of reserve standard and aging SL players. It's hard to explain how much of a step up it is to maintain a good run in SL as any average set of players get found out over the season.

You see it all the time in the CC when really good Champ teams compete for 60 mins but then get blown away in the last 20 as all they have been doing is defending. It's been like that for many years.

I predict a lot of late losses for TWP this season, they will compete but can they concentrate for the full 80? - with the current players???

Still looking forward to next season though.

What utter tosh.

London had basically a Championship squad last season and were within a whisker of staying up in a year when there were no real failures. The total they got relegated with was pretty high number. I've done you the courtesy of looking up the last 4 seasons since SL went back to 12 teams after London themselves were relegated (with 2 points!) along with Bradford to demonstrate how many points the bottom team got and where 20 points (London's tally last season) would have left them.

2018 - bottom team 6 points, 4 teams with less than 20

2017 - Bottom: 11, 3 teams less than 20, 1 equal 20

2016 - Bottom 12, 4 teams less than 20, 2 teams equal 20 

2015 - Bottom 6, 4 teams less than 20, 1 equal.

London were extremely unlucky (reminded me of Blackpool in the Prem getting relegated with 40) and did very well with a team that finished 4th (just) in the Championship and just a couple of additions. 20 points has been good enough to finish 8th every year. Toronto are better than London.

Toronto have had a bottom level SL standard squad for 2 years. They dont have average and reserve level players. O'Brien, Leutele, Russell, Stanley, Ackers, Dixon, Thompson, Wilkin are just a few examples of good quality SL level players. Adding SBW will take them up a notch further and I'm sure there'll be a few more signings.

There is no chance Toronto will get relegated. I expect them to be challenging for the top 5, particularly if they can add a good half and maybe a couple of big middles. Assuming they will struggle simply because they are the promoted team is lazy.

Edited by Tex Evans Thigh
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3 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

What utter tosh.

London had basically a Championship squad last season and were within a whisker of staying up in a year when there were no real failures. The total they got relegated with was pretty high number. I've done you the courtesy of looking up the last 4 seasons since SL went back to 12 teams after London themselves were relegated (with 2 points!) along with Bradford to demonstrate how many points the bottom team got and where 20 points (London's tally last season) would have left them.

2018 - bottom team 6 points, 4 teams with less than 20

2017 - Bottom: 11, 3 teams less than 20, 1 equal 20

2016 - Bottom 12, 4 teams less than 20, 2 teams equal 20 

2015 - Bottom 6, 4 teams less than 20, 1 equal.

London were extremely unlucky (reminded me of Blackpool in the Prem getting relegated with 40) and did very well with a team that finished 4th (just) in the Championship and just a couple of additions. 20 points has been good enough to finish 8th every year. Toronto are better than London.

Toronto have had a bottom level SL standard squad for 2 years. They dont have average and reserve level players. O'Brien, Leutele, Russell, Stanley, Ackers, Dixon, Thompson, Wilkin are just a few examples of good quality SL level players. Adding SBW will take them up a notch further and I'm sure there'll be a few more signings.

There is no chance Toronto will get relegated. I expect them to be challenging for the top 5, particularly if they can add a good half and maybe a couple of big middles. Assuming they will struggle simply because they are the promoted team is lazy.

So your argument that TWP wont get relegated is to use London as your example...... who were relegated..🤣🤣

I hope they dont go down.

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20 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I understand your reasoning but just can't agree with it...I see a top 5 finish this year with Sonny Bill leading the way.

Of course we will lose some games and not walk the board like the last few years but I see us having the skill and determination to make the playoffs in the top 5.

You have 3 standout players in SWB, Leauteli and Stanley, the rest of the squad are journeymen who have been around the game never nailing down a first team place or surplus to requirements/aged player's eg Singleton, Wilkins, Mellor, Thompson. I don't see any sign of upcoming youngsters or players any other club has wanted to sign before they joined TWP.

A run of injuries and you will really struggle, your lack of depth is going to be a massive problem, whilst others can promote younger players to fill the gaps TWP will be reliant on stop gap signings which then brings salary cap problems unless you intend to take the injured out into the backwoods and shoot them thereby freeing up cap space. What's your resolution Kayakman?

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