The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[ATLANTISMAN]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not convinced the returns would be that great for a long time. But that wouldn't put me off carrying on with it. As long as we go into these things with open eyes and realistic expectations. 

If these things can be self funding and the game 'pays' by being accommodating with expansion slots and concessions then I think we have little to lose. When we start talking about investing millions, it becomes a tougher conversation. 

We should remember, David Argyle and Leighton Samuels and the like don't do this for expansion purposes, they are like all other owners who do it as a play thing, for ego, or because they are lifelong fans of their club. We shouldn't be shy insisting they fund their own plaything. 

What we should be doing is capitalising on this, we should have and international commercial arm, and an expansion development board to put down the roots under this top-down expansion. Then if any of these guys walk away we have done some groundwork and the whole thing isn't wasted. 

Toronto has been hit by COVID 19 and Leighton Samuels was hit by his major client (Woolworths) going bust owing him a lot of money they were 80% of his turnover for a framing business.

As for ego well I think maybe in some cases but the majority its just for the love of the game and getting the bug once infected its difficult to cure (And don't I know it LOL:)

 

 

 

Paul

[CanadianRugger]

3 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Toronto has been hit by COVID 19 and Leighton Samuels was hit by his major client (Woolworths) going bust owing him a lot of money they were 80% of his turnover for a framing business.

As for ego well I think maybe in some cases but the majority its just for the love of the game and getting the bug once infected its difficult to cure (And don't I know it LOL:)

 

 

 

Paul

I think for David Argyle it is part business, part love of the game.  He has clearly made some investments elsewhere to try to generate profit from this:

https://howlbrands.com/

https://rugbystrengthcbd.com/#story

https://agraflora.com/brands/howlbrands/

[ATLANTISMAN]

And who can blame him my wife owns 3 radio stations and they carry ads for Rugby Strength GOOD LUCK to him the returns will be minimal compared to the millions he has spent on the TW.

 

Paul

[Damien]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not convinced the returns would be that great for a long time. But that wouldn't put me off carrying on with it. As long as we go into these things with open eyes and realistic expectations. 

If these things can be self funding and the game 'pays' by being accommodating with expansion slots and concessions then I think we have little to lose. When we start talking about investing millions, it becomes a tougher conversation. 

We should remember, David Argyle and Leighton Samuels and the like don't do this for expansion purposes, they are like all other owners who do it as a play thing, for ego, or because they are lifelong fans of their club. We shouldn't be shy insisting they fund their own plaything. 

What we should be doing is capitalising on this, we should have and international commercial arm, and an expansion development board to put down the roots under this top-down expansion. Then if any of these guys walk away we have done some groundwork and the whole thing isn't wasted. 

In my opinion Argyle is paying for his own plaything, to the tune of £18 million so far. That doesn't mean the game should be taking the urine either. Even if Toronto got Sky TV money he will still likely be funding his own plaything. If you think that sufficient support amounts to expansion slots and concessions, which presumably doesn't include money, then I don't think that is good enough.

[terrywebbisgod]

Next year's signings offered to rival clubs,according to twitter.

[TheReaper]

28 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

As someone who is part Acadienne, the cultural ignorance on this forum amazes me

have I had you down a guy incorrectly this whole time?

[Big Picture]

39 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

And Scotland is in the United Kingdom but you don't see many English calling the Scots, English

As someone who is part Acadienne, the cultural ignorance on this forum amazes me

Why does it amaze you?  Almost all the members are Anglophones after all.

[Whippet13]

36 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Next year's signings offered to rival clubs,according to twitter.

3 of them, club appears to be cutting back on expenditure:

https://www.totalrl.com/torontos-2021-signings-offered-to-rival-super-league-clubs/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=torontos-2021-signings-offered-to-rival-super-league-clubs

[Loup]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

What we should be doing is capitalising on this, we should have and international commercial arm, and an expansion development board to put down the roots under this top-down expansion. Then if any of these guys walk away we have done some groundwork and the whole thing isn't wasted. 

Indeed. And if Wolfpack continue in SL, then Super League should negotiate airline and hotel sponsorship on behalf of all clubs for away matches in Toronto rather than dumping the problem onto Wolfpack. Given the anticipated number of away fans that we'd been told to expect at Lamport in 2020, there's a huge potential tourism partnership and club opportunity sitting right there.

[Dave T]

It is interesting seeing apparent demands that if TWP are to return to SL next year they must be paid central funding. 

I'm sorry, but if they are to be allowed in SL next year it has to be on a probationary period where any missed payments or financial issues lead to serious punishment. 

I don't see how the end result of this mess is improved terms for TWP. 

[Whippet13]

Toronto are putting their case to remain in SL on Thursday:

https://forty20.news/toronto-to-make-case-to-remain-in-super-league-on-thursday/

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is interesting seeing apparent demands that if TWP are to return to SL next year they must be paid central funding. 

I'm sorry, but if they are to be allowed in SL next year it has to be on a probationary period where any missed payments or financial issues lead to serious punishment. 

I don't see how the end result of this mess is improved terms for TWP. 

Yep, agree. I think that they could be offered provisional membership of the RFL with the caveat that they meet a set of criteria over the next year. If they do that, then they have proved they add value to the competition and can be entitled to a share. In the long term, everybody being equal members means all clubs can benefit from financial progress the game makes. It also means the are liable for official punishments rather than guest get out clauses.

[Blind side johnny]

3 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Toronto are putting their case to remain in SL on Thursday:

https://forty20.news/toronto-to-make-case-to-remain-in-super-league-on-thursday/

I reckon that their chances of getting any TV money in SL are approximately zero The implications of dropping down to the Championship are also that they would want some of the distribution money, which must be highly unlikely.

My prediction is that they will get a reasonably polite hearing then, when the knives have been wielded behind closed doors, they will "hang up the shield".

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Blind side johnny said:

I reckon that their chances of getting any TV money in SL are approximately zero The implications of dropping down to the Championship are also that they would want some of the distribution money, which must be highly unlikely.

My prediction is that they will get a reasonably polite hearing then, when the knives have been wielded behind closed doors, they will "hang up the shield".

I think.you may be correct there bsj

[Blind side johnny]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep, agree. I think that they could be offered provisional membership of the RFL with the caveat that they meet a set of criteria over the next year. If they do that, then they have proved they add value to the competition and can be entitled to a share. In the long term, everybody being equal members means all clubs can benefit from financial progress the game makes. 

Point of order: I don't believe that non-UK clubs can actually hold membership of the RFL.

[Scubby]

Just now, Blind side johnny said:

Point of order: I don't believe that non-UK clubs can actually hold membership of the RFL.

Maybe that is what existing laws say. But Catalans, Toulouse and others are not going away and need to feel part of the structure. 

[Loup]

Assuming this doesn't end with hanging up the shield, I tend to agree that TWP may not get a share of the tv money and that a set of performance criteria would be reasonable.

Has to go both ways though. SL can't just drop anvils on Wolfpack's head everytime it amuses them to do so. So, no fee to enter Challenge Cup, no surprise travel and accommodation costs, and no more ambushes of the sort that go "oh we're not even sure if we're letting you into Super League" one week before the GF.

 

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yep, agree. I think that they could be offered provisional membership of the RFL with the caveat that they meet a set of criteria over the next year. If they do that, then they have proved they add value to the competition and can be entitled to a share. In the long term, everybody being equal members means all clubs can benefit from financial progress the game makes. It also means the are liable for official punishments rather than guest get out clauses.

Yep, I'd be happy with a set time limit of probation. 

Ultimately nobody is winning here, we don't need to double down and make things worse and cause problems for next year if they are prepared to properly fund and prove it for next year. 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Loup said:

Assuming this doesn't end with hanging up the shield, I tend to agree that TWP may not get a share of the tv money and that a set of performance criteria would be reasonable.

Has to go both ways though. SL can't just drop anvils on Wolfpack's head everytime it amuses them to do so. So, no fee to enter Challenge Cup, no surprise travel and accommodation costs, and no more ambushes of the sort that go "oh we're not even sure if we're letting you into Super League" one week before the GF.

 

It is important to remember that SLE claim that TWP were not forthcoming with the requests made in advance of giving the go ahead. But irrespective of blame either way, the whole thing needs to be better organised, as I say, nobody wins from a club's failure. 

[Smudger06]

Super League Wikipedia page, TWP, Club now defunct !!! 

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

have I had you down a guy incorrectly this whole time?

Hahahaha whoops!  Don't assume my gender bro, it's 2020!

[wiganermike]

6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Super League Wikipedia page, TWP, Club now defunct !!! 

Anyone can edit Wikipedia pages though. Somebody's wishful thinking and nothing more at this present time.

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Anyone can edit Wikipedia pages though. Somebody's wishful thinking and nothing more at this present time.

Indeed. 

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly. 

I also note that Admiral Vladivostok at the very far end of Russia have pulled out of this seasons КХЛ due to financial reasons about Coronavirus.

But the Jaguars are based IN Argentina , even have Argentinian players ,it is their home , and they are based there 

[CanadianRugger]

You can tell listening to Bob Hunter's voice that he is frustrated with some of the Super League owners.