The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Quolls2020]

6 minutes ago, ojx said:

Not sure if this is true, but 2 a point deductions seems like a bit of tokenism. Recruitment is going to be tricky if they are allowed back in.

I agree, 2 points seems very small in light of the initial super league response...I wonder if by “have agreed“ to a 2 point reduction that’s what the Wolfpack have “offered”?

[Whippet13]

In a weird and completely unintended way, TWP pulling out has probably done the 11 other clubs some good this year. There has been a weekly break for one club in a very cramped fixture list and players available to supplement several squads.

Given the strain on clubs to meet an insanely cramped run in over the next month and the inevitably that games are going to be cancelled now we are getting deeper into the 2nd Wave, I wonder if this has bought them a level of "sympathy" from some SL club owners.

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 22/10/2020 at 20:00, Harry Stottle said:

I took the test on Monday, and came back positive Tuesday, I will go along with your symptoms and add in a throat that feels as though if has been scrubbed with a wire brush.

Good luck Robin.

Evening Harry, just got back from 4 days on Kangaroo Island with only the briefest link to the wifi. So I hope that things are progressing well for you and anyone else from this site that has the virus.  Good to read that Robin got a negative result.

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Evening Harry, just got back from 4 days on Kangaroo Island with only the briefest link to the wifi. So I hope that things are progressing well for you and anyone else from this site that has the virus.  Good to read that Robin got a negative result.

A weeks leave spent mostly in bed.

Monday comes round and suddenly I feel much better. Great!!

Toronto then. From a purely selfish perspective their reintroduction is probably the best fit.. SL back to 12 clubs with promotion back on the agenda in 2021. Gives fev, leigh, toulouse et al something to shoot for.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Kayakman said:

"The Tension!"...".Waiting on the Edge of Our Seats!"..."The Drama!"...."The Decision Coming Down Like A Jack Hammer!"

-How much longer SL gonna be able to drag this out for?

 

8 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Was it ever really in doubt?

Yes, it says in the report it will state what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, now I have asked this question on these pages numerous times and have not recieved any logical reply, all we hear is a passionate 'it will be good for the game' nothing more than a suck it and see mentality.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

In a weird and completely unintended way, TWP pulling out has probably done the 11 other clubs some good this year. There has been a weekly break for one club in a very cramped fixture list and players available to supplement several squads.

Given the strain on clubs to meet an insanely cramped run in over the next month and the inevitably that games are going to be cancelled now we are getting deeper into the 2nd Wave, I wonder if this has bought them a level of "sympathy" from some SL club owners.

Good spin Whippy, look hard enough and you can find something good even in the worst situations.

[Hela Wigmen]

Set up to fail Pt II coming soon, then. Yawn. 

[Kayakman]

55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Yes, it says in the report it will state what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, now I have asked this question on these pages numerous times and have not recieved any logical reply, all we hear is a passionate 'it will be good for the game' nothing more than a suck it and see mentality.

Patience Harry.

[TheReaper]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Yes, it says in the report it will state what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, now I have asked this question on these pages numerous times and have not recieved any logical reply, all we hear is a passionate 'it will be good for the game' nothing more than a suck it and see mentality.

Are you SURE you're not parksider? He also liked to repeat that nobody had satisfactorily answered his questions,  so matter what had actually been said.

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

Are you SURE you're not parksider? He also liked to repeat that nobody had satisfactorily answered his questions,  so matter what had actually been said.

Hey, no point in insulting people

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

Are you SURE you're not parksider? He also liked to repeat that nobody had satisfactorily answered his questions,  so matter what had actually been said.

Just asked Mrs Stottle, she confirmed I am definitely not Mr Parksider, but I don't lie Mr Reaper yes I have asked the question on numerous occasions and no nothing tangible has ever been offered in what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, can you offer me anything other than hollow promises?

[Kayakman]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just asked Mrs Stottle, she confirmed I am definitely not Mr Parksider, but I don't lie Mr Reaper yes I have asked the question on numerous occasions and no nothing tangible has ever been offered in what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, can you offer me anything other than hollow promises?

Try to be more positive Harry.

[TIWIT]

22 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Try to be more positive Harry.

Positivity and RL are mutually exclusive.

[The Rocket]

15 hours ago, Kayakman said:

No news is good news.

Saw a funny comedy skit by P.G. Wodehouse once where the boring and bit dotty Uncle used to bore his nieces and nephew with tales of his `Big game hunting`, and how they would say behind his back, " No gnus is good gnus".

[TheReaper]

 

On 19/09/2020 at 11:32, TheReaper said:

 

But they can monetize that, I said exactly how.  Advertising by international companies operating in multiple countries. Sky would pay for UK broadcast rights,  and in turn sell UK subscriptions in the UK and sell advertising on those channels. Some of those advertisers would be league - wide sponsors who will (ideally) be higher value than they currently. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just asked Mrs Stottle, she confirmed I am definitely not Mr Parksider, but I don't lie Mr Reaper yes I have asked the question on numerous occasions and no nothing tangible has ever been offered in what TWP and Canada will bring to SL, can you offer me anything other than hollow promises?

See above for only one of many times this has been addressed. International viewers with a stake in the game means international visibility for larger sponsorship. Bigger TV rights from Canadian broadcasters than they currently pay (Sportsnet paid for SL rights before TWP existed. So there is a value there, and it is defintiely worth more now).

It is potential. That money can't be guaranteed by any club, it requites all putting in the work to get there.

Just because it isn't a cheque directly to their bank accounts doesn't mean it isn't real.

Just because the short term cost is too much for the other clubs to stomach doesn't mean that it isn't there. 

Just because it wasn't in direct reply to you doesn't mean it hasn't been answered. You just need to read what's out there rather than demand it given to you.

Just because you aren't personally satisfied with answers provided doesn't make them invalid.

 

Note, I'm not promising anything, "hollow" or not, because I'm not the Toronto Wolfpack. I'm laying out where I see the potential for value. All business is about potential. 

[Jayme2020]

In some good news Canada has given the green light to rapid Covid tests meaning this should make it possible for both Toronto and Ottawa to have home games next year.

[Keith989]

8 hours ago, Jayme2020 said:

In some good news Canada has given the green light to rapid Covid tests meaning this should make it possible for both Toronto and Ottawa to have home games next year.

Rapid Covid tests?

[Tommygilf]

44 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Rapid Covid tests?

Got em in Boots now

[Quolls2020]

25/10/20

Toronto Wolfpack are set to speak to the Super League board next week as a decision on their future draws nearer.

Sources across Super League have told League Express they have invited the Wolfpack’s new ownership group an opportunity to speak to the other Super League club owners on November 2nd.

The Wolfpack submitted their revised application on Friday after the competition had given them a four-week extension.

As part of their application, Toronto have, as they have always said they would, requested a full share of the income from the Sky broadcasting deal.

[Oldbear]

Firstly can I say that I am not Parky (or Brian), but I do have some sympathy with Harry here. You see I feel that with ANY expansion there should be a rationale for doing it, not just so we can say we have a team in X. The reason I think that is that I feel expansion has more chance of success if we have a plan, and part of that plan has to be why we are doing it. Now in the case of TWP I’m still not sure what the objective is, is it to expand the game from a playing point of view (hopefully), is it to access new media markets with potential financial spin offs (possibly, in which case how?) or what? Will TWP allow us to achieve what we want to achieve, is Mr LiVolsi the man to lead this (as it’s becoming more apparent that TWP was Mr Argyles plaything and ego trip, will the new guy be different?) and if so what role does Canada RL play in this? My dream of course would be that as well as TWP and Ottawa, the amateur game could be stabilized and developed so that young rugby talent, like my youngest son, would actually have the chance to play RL if they wanted to, in a structure which looks to identify young talent, not only for the pro game, but also the national team. Now a TWP that plays at the highest level, and gets media exposure would definitely help, but only if they want to work with Canada RL, and the RFL can supply development support. If on the other hand there’s no plan beyond getting TWP back in SL and hoping for the best, then it’s going to end in tears.

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Firstly can I say that I am not Parky (or Brian), but I do have some sympathy with Harry here. You see I feel that with ANY expansion there should be a rationale for doing it, not just so we can say we have a team in X. The reason I think that is that I feel expansion has more chance of success if we have a plan, and part of that plan has to be why we are doing it. Now in the case of TWP I’m still not sure what the objective is, is it to expand the game from a playing point of view (hopefully), is it to access new media markets with potential financial spin offs (possibly, in which case how?) or what? Will TWP allow us to achieve what we want to achieve, is Mr LiVolsi the man to lead this (as it’s becoming more apparent that TWP was Mr Argyles plaything and ego trip, will the new guy be different?) and if so what role does Canada RL play in this? My dream of course would be that as well as TWP and Ottawa, the amateur game could be stabilized and developed so that young rugby talent, like my youngest son, would actually have the chance to play RL if they wanted to, in a structure which looks to identify young talent, not only for the pro game, but also the national team. Now a TWP that plays at the highest level, and gets media exposure would definitely help, but only if they want to work with Canada RL, and the RFL can supply development support. If on the other hand there’s no plan beyond getting TWP back in SL and hoping for the best, then it’s going to end in tears.

Quite, but when we hear a coherent plan for expansion into North America or France, Harry et al don't like that either. There comes a point where you have to accept you can't please some folk.

[Oldbear]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Quite, but when we hear a coherent plan for expansion into North America or France, Harry et al don't like that either. There comes a point where you have to accept you can't please some folk.

Oh I know, but often we are our own worst enemies because we don’t seem to have any plans, it’s easier to overcome objections if you can demonstrate what you are doing and why. Sadly for RL it too often seems to be about pins in maps.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Oldbear said:

Oh I know, but often we are our own worst enemies because we don’t seem to have any plans, it’s easier to overcome objections if you can demonstrate what you are doing and why. Sadly for RL it too often seems to be about pins in maps.

I agree with that. We do lack strategy and knowhow when it comes to expansion which has damaged previous attempts

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Oh I know, but often we are our own worst enemies because we don’t seem to have any plans, it’s easier to overcome objections if you can demonstrate what you are doing and why. Sadly for RL it too often seems to be about pins in maps.

This NA expansion was never strategic. It was opportunistic, and that is ok. It was being self-funded and you can't look a Gift-horse in the mouth. It's a relatively risk-free gamble. 

However, two key problems have emerged. Firstly, the whole self-funding benefit has now gone. It was the thing that made it easy to get behind, and it has now gone. And secondly, at some stage, you need a more formal plan, as there are many complications on the horizon, like how we potentially fit multiple NA teams into what is effectively the UK pyramid. 

If we are now going to effectively buy into this expansion aim, as we are now being asked to, then we need that plan. 

And its no good SLE sitting back and insisting the RFL do it, and it's no good the RFL blindly admitting teams for SLE to deal with down the line. 

But ultimately it is quite clear what the ultimate prize is, it is commercial income from sponsors and media companies, a broader footprint that helps with perceptions and a new player pathway. This is obvious, the disagree t really is whether you believe that TWP will genuinely deliver millions of pounds of new income and new players, and over what period you are prepared to wait. Harry clearly doesn't believe those benefits will come. 

I'm unsure, was 100% behind a self-funded club, slightly less behind one that routes funds away from the UK, when the aim should be to route more funds. 

I do also want to mention one other benefit, and this is a softer one. It is ambition. Sport should be about ambition and excitement, trying to fulfil potential, deliver new things, be daring, and TWP are that. It is exciting, and if it can work there, then that tells us it can work anywhere. We should all want it to succeed. 

[Kayakman]

Bring back the magic to The Big Smoke!