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John Drake

The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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5 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

Can't see Toronto avoiding relegation due to the size of their squad.It will be interesting how the other Super League teams respond if that happens.I have said before the only way to stop the Yo Yo effect of Championship Clubs when promoted is to do it every two years which gives the promoted club time to develop their squad.I applaud Toronto for getting into S.L. but feel the better idea would have been developing Rugby League in Canada and the U.S.A.over a 15year period with Coaches in the schools and Colleges  for  future player's.Our problem is not enough players being developed and not enough funding for Championship Clubs to  help players to make the transition to S.L.

And who was going to pay for development in Canada? Santa claus ? 

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27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What you missed out Dave was the poll/question that Sky put out on Twitter requesting a simple yes/no answer to "Should Toronto be allowed a SC dispensation" Mr Carney reported that 2000 people responded and I think it was stated that 74% of them said No.

Is that a good gauge of the feeling of the RL public in this country? I should imagine non-RL people would be bothered with the question.

If anyone got all their RL information from this site, they would believe that the North American excersise should be given the Green Light on all and every aspect such is the overwhelming support it receives, but that poll shows it not to be the popular consensus, it reminds me a lot of the 3 year long Brexit debate on this forum for anyone who ventured into those pages would have believed that we would have remained in the EU for eternity!

If RL fans want things to remain the same as it’s always been, that’s entirely up to them and I wouldn’t dream of forcing them to do anything different. 
 

It’s just that if that’s the case, I won’t be one of them.

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31 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

If RL fans want things to remain the same as it’s always been, that’s entirely up to them and I wouldn’t dream of forcing them to do anything different. 
 

It’s just that if that’s the case, I won’t be one of them.

Jon, you’ve been promising the jack the game for the last 4 years.

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33 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

If RL fans want things to remain the same as it’s always been, that’s entirely up to them and I wouldn’t dream of forcing them to do anything different. 
 

It’s just that if that’s the case, I won’t be one of them.

We also shouldn't just see a vote like this as indicative of how you have presented it above. 

It is possible to be a fan of expansion, without feeling that three weeks in we should be adjusting the cap because a club has made stupid choices. 

The question was quite specific about cap dispensations IIRC, I can understand why a large number of people would be against that once the comp has started.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

It's also the case that Toronto brought this up prior to the end of last season.

And let's not pretend many fans havent always taken the same tack when it comes to expansion. A threat rather than an opportunity.

Frankly I'm surprised 25% wanted dispensation. That's quite a hefty percentage of the fan base that were prepared to put the development of the game ahead of their own clubs short term interests.

 

Do you have further details of when and how they raised the cap issue? What was it they asked for during the season last year?

One of SLE's grumbles appears to be how late this was raised.

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25 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

13 or 14 teams next year could solve that problem.  

Potentially current 12 plus championship winners plus Toulose 

 

Now I know that you have no expierence of the Joy's of promotion or the jeapordy of relegation, but supporting my club for over half a century I am used to that more than most, the question is would Leigh given grace from relegation go onto better things? 

In the league rankings we sit somewhere between 10 and 15th, every year is a challenge, can we get promoted and if we do can we escape relegation, given that there are other clubs in the same predicament as ours who would not survive in SL but for the year on year funding they recieve, it is very hard for me to say go ahead have a closed shop and let Johnny Newcomer in to the party after all they will only be offered a place speculated on by potential, nothin more nothing less.

I spend my money watching this great game to watch my team, that is what gives me pleasure, I watch all the games that are on TV, but very very rarely do I get the same emotion as watching "my team" I don't ride the tackles, feel the hits, rejoice at a try, moan at dropped ball or curse at a mistake that is what being involved and being a fan means to me. I relish the challenge of being in the top division and the fairest way for me is to decide who plays there on merit, through performance and results. Given a level playing field all the teams have the same opportunity, sheilding anyone from jeorpardy does not sit true with me, competition is the essence of British sport, Football, Union, Cricket the high profile team games all employ this, Rugby League should be no different, and I hope it never is again.

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1 hour ago, LR23 said:

I think it is more like they live out of their own home for three months a year. They asked for 5% dispensation when London get 10% (I think) but it was refused on the grounds that they asked so late from what I can gather.

You do struggle with Leigh facts don't you LR, I know many lads from my town who have been employed by Toronto, I used to see them quite regularly and joke are you at 'home' this week in Canada or 'away' and sleeping at home. They are based in Manchester, train at Rochdale now, they have 15 regular games in this country plus those they will have to play over here because of the weather conditions in Canada so they will have 11 is it league games in Canada? why would they have to be in Canada for 9 months of the year, it costs the club nothing when they are at home in their own beds. 

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It was said last night on sky and I'm sure some of the journos on twitter were saying pre GF they asked for it to be considered.

I also dont think that's quite what elstone said on behalf of SL, which was that the game should have addressed the issue sooner, not that Toronto should have brought it up sooner.

https://www.totalrl.com/elstone-admits-toronto-dispensation-issue-should-have-been-sorted-sooner/

Where was it mentioned last night on Sky? I've just re-watched the segment on TWP and the cap and there was no mention at all.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

McDermott did not give that impression in his interview did he? If so, then it should be done on an equating basis, as has been suggested above the Toronto player's live out of their own home for 9 months of the year do the lads at London?

As far as im aware the London lads live in London for the whole season. 

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So all those in favour of giving them dispensation AND protection from relegation AND a bye to the GF say aye.  They are  spending up to the cap without the TV money so there is no need for that to be brought up in any argument.  They don't live in Toronto so a dispensation ala the London weighting does not apply.  Even if Canadian players were not classed as overseas players, there aren't any of SL quality at the moment.  So now a question for the RFL ........ how the f*** did you ever think this would work.  Catalans have been in the league for how long? Is French RL any better off ..... nope its still ######.


Here we go again .....

 

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1 minute ago, DemonUK said:

So all those in favour of giving them dispensation AND protection from relegation AND a bye to the GF say aye.  They are  spending up to the cap without the TV money so there is no need for that to be brought up in any argument.  They don't live in Toronto so a dispensation ala the London weighting does not apply.  Even if Canadian players were not classed as overseas players, there aren't any of SL quality at the moment.  So now a question for the RFL ........ how the f*** did you ever think this would work.  Catalans have been in the league for how long? Is French RL any better off ..... nope its still ######.

Maybe they didn't think it would work. But as someone was offering to bankroll the entire thing for them they probably said, "OK then, what have we got to lose". I'd have done the same.

12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Youre like the guy with only a GCSE D in woodwork complaining that Ahmed the Neurosurgeon is coming over here and stealing your job. 

 

I can't believe Ahmed the Neurosurgeon didn't realise a 23 man squad would be a touch on the light side!

Edited by Bramstein

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1 hour ago, aj1908 said:

Toronto could go another year without tv money if it meant staying in sl if they just went to 13.

 

 

1 hour ago, LR23 said:

Chuck in New York as well on no TV money (just to get people really riled up!) and you are onto a winner.

FFS.

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36 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's also the case that Toronto brought this up prior to the end of last season.

And let's not pretend many fans havent always taken the same tack when it comes to expansion. A threat rather than an opportunity.

Frankly I'm surprised 25% wanted dispensation. That's quite a hefty percentage of the fan base that were prepared to put the development of the game ahead of their own clubs short term interests.

 

The 25% most probably came from the top 6, you know those classesd as the "safe ones".

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4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Runs multiple sides, ie reserves, Academy

So I guess the Kansas City Chiefs, Toronto Raptors, etc. aren't "proper clubs" in your book then?

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27 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Leigh have been in the championship for 23 of 25 SL seasons, I'm pretty sure they havent spent two consecutive seasons in the top division in my lifetime.

Youre like the guy with only a GCSE D in woodwork complaining that Ahmed the Neurosurgeon is coming over here and stealing your job. 

 

So how old are you Scotchy?

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

So I guess the Kansas City Chiefs, Toronto Raptors, etc. aren't "proper clubs" in your book then?

Not proper rugby league clubs, no. Nice try though. Have 10 housepoints. 

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23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Where was it mentioned last night on Sky? I've just re-watched the segment on TWP and the cap and there was no mention at all.

C'mon Dave you are expierenced enough to know that he makes things up or goes of on another tangent to suit his argument.

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21 minutes ago, To Be Confirmed said:

As far as im aware the London lads live in London for the whole season. 

Thats what I would have thought, so the weighting would be relevant then, that is why I said proposionally for Toronto.

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You do struggle with Leigh facts don't you LR, I know many lads from my town who have been employed by Toronto, I used to see them quite regularly and joke are you at 'home' this week in Canada or 'away' and sleeping at home. They are based in Manchester, train at Rochdale now, they have 15 regular games in this country plus those they will have to play over here because of the weather conditions in Canada so they will have 11 is it league games in Canada? why would they have to be in Canada for 9 months of the year, it costs the club nothing when they are at home in their own beds. 

I understand it just fine - by 'out of their own home for three months' I meant 'away from, as in 'in Canada for three months. As mentioned elsewhere I find that situation ridiculous and probably part of the reason why they have to pay such overinflated wages.

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25 minutes ago, DemonUK said:

So all those in favour of giving them dispensation AND protection from relegation AND a bye to the GF say aye.  They are  spending up to the cap without the TV money so there is no need for that to be brought up in any argument.  They don't live in Toronto so a dispensation ala the London weighting does not apply.  Even if Canadian players were not classed as overseas players, there aren't any of SL quality at the moment.  So now a question for the RFL ........ how the f*** did you ever think this would work.  Catalans have been in the league for how long? Is French RL any better off ..... nope its still ######.

Tis true.

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12 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

So I guess the Kansas City Chiefs, Toronto Raptors, etc. aren't "proper clubs" in your book then?

Who gives a fig, this is Britain and the British Rugby League we are discussing.

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53 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We also shouldn't just see a vote like this as indicative of how you have presented it above. 

It is possible to be a fan of expansion, without feeling that three weeks in we should be adjusting the cap because a club has made stupid choices. 

The question was quite specific about cap dispensations IIRC, I can understand why a large number of people would be against that once the comp has started.

To me though Dave, very few people analyse it like you (what you do is right btw) but just see some newcomers taking a share of their money (even though they aren’t)

In my experience it’s just indicative of the petty mindedness that is so prevalent in RL.

I don’t mind admitting just prior to the signing of SBW I was pretty much done with RL and was just about on my way out. But I’m hopeful Toronto can bring new excitement to SL. If they don’t succeed, that will delight many but they will have to go back to blaming London or Catalans for RL’s problems. I desperately hope they succeed, if only to keep my interest up. 

 

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18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah the ones not voting for self interest

Like your goodself then, were you not one of those in last couple of seasons saying if Leeds were to be relegated the rules should be swayed to keep them in SL?

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14 minutes ago, LR23 said:

I understand it just fine - by 'out of their own home for three months' I meant 'away from, as in 'in Canada for three months. As mentioned elsewhere I find that situation ridiculous and probably part of the reason why they have to pay such overinflated wages.

We got at crossed purposes, I though you implied they were in Canada for 9 month's, apologies.

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