Hudgell wants SL/RFL to reunite

[Toby Chopra]

Neil Hudgell throws in his tuppence worth on the situation. For me, the main headlines are: the sport can't be saved with two leadership bodies (RFL and SL) so it should come back together; it can't afford 37 professional clubs and the number should be reduced; he's not putting any more money into KR until the relegation situation is sorted (by which I read removed). 

The second two points are to be expected, but the first one is interesting, a sign the consensus for an 'operationally independent' SL is cracking. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/26/hull-kr-owner-rugby-league-could-cease-to-exist-full-time-sport-coronavirus-outbreak

[bobbruce]

More a sign that SL clubs realise for the game/clubs to get any government funding to tide them over. It will have to be done together. 

[ojx]

Hold on, didn't he vote for the SL splitting away two years ago? I thought it was only Leeds who were against it.

In the rest of the interview, he says that RFL should get rid (or not fund) any team in League 1 or the Championship without aspirations of becoming fully professional. 

[Marty Funkhouser]

Reading between the lines it sounds like he favours more of an SL takeover of the RFL rather than the RFL subsuming SL.

Whilst the writer and Mr Hudgell seem to paint this as concerns about the whole game, it is merely self interest manifesting itself in what Mr Hudgell hopes is a more palatable form. 

[Angelic Cynic]

The city of Hull may be submerged by the tears from all the non-elite clubs,and their supporters,very shortly.

[ojx]

33 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What specifically is necessary to 'reunite' the game?

It might be because any government hand outs to help the sport will go to the RFL, not to SL.

[Hullfan]

Some guy hudgell, I prefer him to pearson. He makes some excellent points here. Well said Neil 

[John Boriston]

If it’s not financially possible to sustain a fully professional game without rich Chairmen and Sky, then playing part-time is the best way forward for Rugby League to gain solvency and a future.  True, all the best British players would go to the NRL, but nothing new there. 

I don’t pine for the past, I pine for a solvent future.

[John Boriston]

If we went part-time and the best players went to the NRL , it would be our best chance of beating the Aussies anyway.

But I bet there are plenty of Chairmen in Superleague  who would really like to stop churning out money to keep their clubs alive and financing risky ‘crocked has-beens’ from the NRL, they’d be daft if they didn’t.

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

What specifically is necessary to 'reunite' the game?

I take it to mean run by the same bureaucracy, which would most probably mean goodbye Robert Elstone and Super League’s new Manchester office (or Elstone becomes an RFL employee like Roger Draper was).

[Mr Plow]

The game can not afford 2 governing bodies. Should have RFL CEO and SL general manager

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Hullfan said:

Some guy hudgell, I prefer him to pearson. He makes some excellent points here. Well said Neil 

  Certainly some guy.Changes his opinion more often than politicians.

  Only Hetherington stood up and spoke about the appointment of Elstone,in opposition to all the other Super League club owners who wanted the divide.

   https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-news/adam-pearson-neil-hudgell-back-1667591

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Hudgell has never thought of anything wider than Hull KR, he is the most one eyed of all owners. Im sure their fans love him for it but his view is always HKR-centric and the rest of the game is far behind in second place

Im surprised at these comments that seem to be coming out that the game needs to "reunite". Its far closer than say the premier league and the FA for instance. What would be different? what really is the issue of the split here?

Because it seems to me that there isnt really a lot Elstone has done other than revamp the marketing and presentation of the game (something which absolutely was necessary and is far better now) and SL take control of the tv negotiations which the RFL used to outsource to IMG anyway. 

What specifically is necessary to 'reunite' the game?

If the split had delivered what was promised then no one would be talking about uniting. But neither Super League nor the RFL have progressed in any meaningful way - as you say the graphics are nicer now but that's low hanging fruit. We now have a catastrophe that nobody could have seen coming so it does make sense to look at what can be done to reduce costs but still keep the sport going. A merger/reunification is about the only obvious way to cut costs without completely wrecking everything.

And it's interesting (ish) that this is yet another whole-game discussion (the RFL did one of those when they rejigged the entire league just to keep the second tier fans happy) which basically misses out the community/amateur games.

[Man of Kent]

The first thing the game needs to do is to start playing again ASAP, behind closed doors or otherwise. 

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

And that worked out brilliantly

Oh, absolutely.

It’s easy (and lazy) to bash a well-paid executive but I happen to like the cut of Elstone’s jib and what he has achieved in his short time in post.

[Toby Chopra]

23 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Has there been time to achieve anything?

Elstone had half a season after appointment, one full season and then 5 weeks of this season.

And whilst I agree the revamping of presentation is low hanging fruit it took Elstone to get it done. The RFL under Wood and Rimmer let it slide for pretty much a decade to the point it wasnt just not good, it was actively bad. 

I'm just unsure about, as a whole, its expected to achieve. 

Take personal thoughts on Elstone out of it. SL needs a talented and empowered leader separate from the RFL, that person and their team costs money.

This smacks of typical RL to me. False economies all over the place. 

Saving half a mill on Elstones wage to try and prop up some clubs who havent been financially viable in decades is going to look pretty stupid when we give him a massive pay off and see the SL tv value collapse and everyone goes bust in 2022

I agree entirely with the last paragraph

I tend to agree with this. In the end, the covid crisis hasn't changed the overall outlook for Rugby League in England: the future of the sport depends on the next TV deal. That hasn't changed, although the worst case scenario is probably now worse than it was.

Elstone was brought in for one thing above all else, to negotiate that deal, so it seems pointless ditching him now, however good his strategy is. Even a transitional deal for another year or two would be worth it at this point. 

[paulwalker71]

I got to the bit where he railed against 'skewed fixture list'. Then I remembered that he was in favour of loop fixtures

You just can't take the guy seriously! He changes his mind every other week - always in the interests of self-interest for Hull KR.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

You do not have to be a believer in Marxist historical inevitability to realise that COVID-19 has simp[y accelerating a process that was already underway in Rugby League.

We do not have 37 professional clubs we have about 16 full time clubs. The key phrase here ifrom Mr Hudgell is "only clubs with top-league ambitions are professional"  In reality you have about 21 clubs who are not going to be super league candidates anytime soon - Good luck  to anyone though who is going to tell the followers of "scutterton scorpions" that they have no place at the top table - You only have to see the Super League threads on here to see the reaction that gets. and fratricide is inevitable

Super League clubs fear relegation into a semi-pro league - Sounds like franchising is back on the agenda with the wagons being circled.

Northern Hemisphere Rugby League is already a feeder league for the NRL and to much lesser extent Union. This because it fails to generate enough revenue, a big enough playing base, spectators and sponsors because the game has never in the last 25 years properly expanded within the British Isles - Becomng a sort of voluntary prisoner of georgraphy to please  "true supporters" .

Not expanding within the Brtish Isles directly affects the value of any TV deal and the number of bidders available. It's ridiculous that you want to know what te government thinks about how the game is run as opposed to the view of your major broadcaster in SKY TV. Even the mighty NRL dances to the broadcasters tune, and assuming the game was ever to deal with a private equity company then in order to maximise their profits that company will be also prescriptive in who it wants to constitute that league.

Thuis will mean the end of the artificial club in Toronto, "Rugby League Norway" and the rest of the fantasy rugby league clubs expounded on here. More regrettably it may mean the end of the French clubs in a British league. But that may be the only way the game will get a deal in any way near the value of the last contract.

Whether the league gets underway again this year or not there are some harsh realities that Rugby League needs to face up to and a lot of people both within the game and on this board are not going to like the answer.

[Angelic Cynic]

30 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

You do not have to be a believer in Marxist historical inevitability to realise that COVID-19 has simp[y accelerating a process that was already underway in Rugby League.

We do not have 37 professional clubs we have about 16 full time clubs. The key phrase here ifrom Mr Hudgell is "only clubs with top-league ambitions are professional"  In reality you have about 21 clubs who are not going to be super league candidates anytime soon - Good luck  to anyone though who is going to tell the followers of "scutterton scorpions" that they have no place at the top table - You only have to see the Super League threads on here to see the reaction that gets. and fratricide is inevitable

Super League clubs fear relegation into a semi-pro league - Sounds like franchising is back on the agenda with the wagons being circled.

Northern Hemisphere Rugby League is already a feeder league for the NRL and to much lesser extent Union. This because it fails to generate enough revenue, a big enough playing base, spectators and sponsors because the game has never in the last 25 years properly expanded within the British Isles - Becomng a sort of voluntary prisoner of georgraphy to please  "true supporters" .

Not expanding within the Brtish Isles directly affects the value of any TV deal and the number of bidders available. It's ridiculous that you want to know what te government thinks about how the game is run as opposed to the view of your major broadcaster in SKY TV. Even the mighty NRL dances to the broadcasters tune, and assuming the game was ever to deal with a private equity company then in order to maximise their profits that company will be also prescriptive in who it wants to constitute that league.

Thuis will mean the end of the artificial club in Toronto, "Rugby League Norway" and the rest of the fantasy rugby league clubs expounded on here. More regrettably it may mean the end of the French clubs in a British league. But that may be the only way the game will get a deal in any way near the value of the last contract.

Whether the league gets underway again this year or not there are some harsh realities that Rugby League needs to face up to and a lot of people both within the game and on this board are not going to like the answer.

    Scutterton Scorpions wins it for me.Brilliant.

    Knowing what you know,and I agree with your post,how would you like to see on and off the field,post pandemic?

    The owners of the Super League clubs all agreed with the last broadcast deal - apart from Dr Koukash.

     The owners of Super League clubs all agreed with appointing Elstone - apart from Mr Hetherington;who didn't like the power grab.

    Scutterton Scorpions.What are your thoughts on rugby league clubs having such names added to their town/city location?

[paulwalker71]

41 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Northern Hemisphere Rugby League is already a feeder league for the NRL and to much lesser extent Union. This because it fails to generate enough revenue, a big enough playing base, spectators and sponsors because the game has never in the last 25 years properly expanded within the British Isles - Becomng a sort of voluntary prisoner of georgraphy to please  "true supporters" .

[snip]

Whether the league gets underway again this year or not there are some harsh realities that Rugby League needs to face up to and a lot of people both within the game and on this board are not going to like the answer.

I agree with a big chunk of your post Rooster.

It would be interesting if Mr Hudgell's Brave New World would allow for, not only a culling of smaller clubs, but also the properly funded expansion across the UK? How would that be funded? Well, for a start - one might argue - you don't really need two teams in the City of Hull. So how about taking away the Sky funding from one and using that money to properly fund a SL club in Newcastle.

I wonder if Hudgell would like that 'harsh reality'  Especially as there would be a kind of reverse poetic justice about money flowing from Hull up to the North East...

[Hela Wigmen]

Rugby League’s own power to shoot itself in the foot time and time again, knows no bounds. 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Has there been time to achieve anything?

Elstone had half a season after appointment, one full season and then 5 weeks of this season.

And whilst I agree the revamping of presentation is low hanging fruit it took Elstone to get it done. The RFL under Wood and Rimmer let it slide for pretty much a decade to the point it wasnt just not good, it was actively bad. 

I'm just unsure about, as a whole, its expected to achieve. 

Take personal thoughts on Elstone out of it. SL needs a talented and empowered leader separate from the RFL, that person and their team costs money.

This smacks of typical RL to me. False economies all over the place. 

Saving half a mill on Elstones wage to try and prop up some clubs who havent been financially viable in decades is going to look pretty stupid when we give him a massive pay off and see the SL tv value collapse and everyone goes bust in 2022

I agree entirely with the last paragraph

I agree with this. This season looked more promising than any season that we have had for many a year. The game had received more publicity than it had for a long time and there was definitely a revamped feel with fresh, new TV content. We also had a record sponsorship deal announced. I hope a freak occurrence doesn't see us go backwards again to what has failed the game for years.

[Oldbear]

35 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I agree with a big chunk of your post Rooster.

It would be interesting if Mr Hudgell's Brave New World would allow for, not only a culling of smaller clubs, but also the properly funded expansion across the UK? How would that be funded? Well, for a start - one might argue - you don't really need two teams in the City of Hull. So how about taking away the Sky funding from one and using that money to properly fund a SL club in Newcastle.

I wonder if Hudgell would like that 'harsh reality'  Especially as there would be a kind of reverse poetic justice about money flowing from Hull up to the North East...

As one of those fans who saw my team “merged” to save Hull Sharks I would totally agree. It would be nice to see exactly what a North East team, with a full share of Sky money, could achieve, after all we never got a full distribution last time!

I also like a big portion of Roosters post, the reality is that we are a feeder league and that’s never going to change while we keep going round in circles.

[Oldbear]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Amatuer clubs survive on volunteers and grants and kids being introduced to the game through the pro level

And if there’s no pro game then the kids find another sport, one of the big reasons Rugby League suffers with playing numbers is we don’t have enough big pro clubs able to attract kids to think it could be a career choice, in fact over in my part of Canada we have lots of kids playing junior RU who quit playing after grade 12 because there’s no chance of making the sport a career, unlike other sports.

[Angelic Cynic]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

Decades ago. The world has changed.

 The world has changed again.Over the past months and for future months/years.

  We're going off thread - but the whole of sport is under threat - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/apr/26/premier-league-football-will-survive-lockdown-coronavirus-gyms-leisure-centres-basketball