A Tonga 3 match series in England?

[The Rocket]

Just now, Eddie said:

50k sounds like a lot tbf, especially when we’d have played the same opposition twice in the previous fortnight already. 

Especially in a 35k seat stadium!

Fair enough.

Really looking forward to England vs. Samoa opening WC game. Tonga and Samoa are fierce rivals, their Test Match here a couple of years ago at Penrith was ballistic. They are going to have s point to prove.

[Hela Wigmen]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Do RU fans in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales regard repeated games against the Wallabies as "stale and boring"? If so, it generally doesn`t stop them turning up.

If the Kiwis, historically our second greatest challenge, hold limited appeal, and therefore Australia are the only nation we have any respect for, we may as well give up on international RL.

No idea but you’re comparing a bigger sport with a bigger following, so it really doesn’t work. 

[JM2010]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Do RU fans in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales regard repeated games against the Wallabies as "stale and boring"? If so, it generally doesn`t stop them turning up.

If the Kiwis, historically our second greatest challenge, hold limited appeal, and therefore Australia are the only nation we have any respect for, we may as well give up on international RL.

I think part of the problem is that's the only team they're playing. If they also had competitive games against other nations regularly then I don't think it would be a problem.

England RU play many competitive fixtures so it doesn't feel stale when they also play the wallabies

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I think part of the problem is that's the only team they're playing. If they also had competitive games against other nations regularly then I don't think it would be a problem.

England RU play many competitive fixtures so it doesn't feel stale when they also play the wallabies

That's right. They may have repetitive fixtures, but each Autumn they also play a variety of teams. 

These teams often play 9 or 10 different nations per year. 

It's not unusual for us to play one nation. 

[rlno1]

Why not one off games v Tonga and Samoa rather then a 3 game series. These would be events.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

So a team that within the past three years have beaten NZ, GB, AUS, plus a good Samoa side twice, and come desperately close against Eng, still have to "change people`s attitudes towards them and get people a bit more excited".

Not blaming you for this, and its too easy to just blame the media... I blame the media.

Well yeah, cos the average person in the street is not gonna know that Tonga are the upcoming team at the moment. Average Joe will watch the news or read a newspaper and see, 'England to play Tonga in 3 match series' and think, England will win every game cos they know nothing about rugby league due to the little publicity it gets. If it was really advertised that this was a big series to see, something not to be missed then people will think differently. The average person doesn't know Tonga have beaten all those teams recently. 

[Tommygilf]

25 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Why not one off games v Tonga and Samoa rather then a 3 game series. These would be events.

As part of a 4 nations or something would be ideal.

[paulwalker71]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Do RU fans in England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales regard repeated games against the Wallabies as "stale and boring"? If so, it generally doesn`t stop them turning up.

If the Kiwis, historically our second greatest challenge, hold limited appeal, and therefore Australia are the only nation we have any respect for, we may as well give up on international RL.

The thing is the RU has a much more developed international scene which makes it overall more varied

When the Wallabies come over they aren't just playing England three times, they'll play England, Wales, Ireland etc. At the same time, you get the Springboks playing Scotland, France and England, and Argentina playing etc etc

So the 'Autumn series' as I think it's called will be ALL of the Home Nations playing different variants of several different touring sides over a four week period. So, no, they aren't just playing the same teams over and over.

We can't do that because there's really only Australia (who don't really want to come) or Tonga (who can't afford to come) - so it ends up being yet another three match series against New Zealand. The closest we ever came was the Four Nations concept, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

[rlno1]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

As part of a 4 nations or something would be ideal.

No, just as one off international occasions.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, rlno1 said:

No, just as one off international occasions.

They can't afford that right now in the same way Union has Autumn internationals.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

As part of a 4 nations or something would be ideal.

The Four Nations was a brilliant tournament, why on earth did we scrap it?

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Why not one off games v Tonga and Samoa rather then a 3 game series. These would be events.

More cost bringing them over I guess, but yeah ideally it would be great to being Tonga, Samoa and Fiji over and have a 4 nations here one November. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Well yeah, cos the average person in the street is not gonna know that Tonga are the upcoming team at the moment. Average Joe will watch the news or read a newspaper and see, 'England to play Tonga in 3 match series' and think, England will win every game cos they know nothing about rugby league due to the little publicity it gets. If it was really advertised that this was a big series to see, something not to be missed then people will think differently. The average person doesn't know Tonga have beaten all those teams recently. 

When Tonga win the WC it could be billed as England v the World Champions though. 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Why not one off games v Tonga and Samoa rather then a 3 game series. These would be events.

Well the costs mainly. If the worry that some of about Tonga is if it would be profitable this worry is essentially doubled flying over 2 teams. All the costs are essentially doubled for no more revenue.

[unapologetic pedant]

43 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

The thing is the RU has a much more developed international scene which makes it overall more varied

When the Wallabies come over they aren't just playing England three times, they'll play England, Wales, Ireland etc. At the same time, you get the Springboks playing Scotland, France and England, and Argentina playing etc etc

So the 'Autumn series' as I think it's called will be ALL of the Home Nations playing different variants of several different touring sides over a four week period. So, no, they aren't just playing the same teams over and over.

We can't do that because there's really only Australia (who don't really want to come) or Tonga (who can't afford to come) - so it ends up being yet another three match series against New Zealand. The closest we ever came was the Four Nations concept, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Your points, and the related ones of Hela Wigmen and JM2010 are perfectly valid. However, I still assert that the Kiwis are undervalued. They have to do more to generate interest from English RL fans and media than the Wallabies do from British RU counterparts. The media`s (including RL media) portrayal of NZ as completely dominated by RU plays a big role. The BBC`s RL correspondent ought to know a lot more about NZ League and its players than he appears to, and be able to convey that to both the RL and wider audience. The same applies to Tonga.

The Wallabies might play the different home nations, but those fixtures have become pretty much annual events where once they were much rarer. 

Clearly we miss regular fixtures against the Aussies, but when we had them that probably downgraded the kiwis even more. With so few nations consistently competitive with us you`d think that one who traditionally have been would command more respect.

PNG beat GB last year. If the Kumuls came for their first non-World Cup games over here in nearly 3 decades would there be much interest or respect. Very much doubt it.

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The Four Nations was a brilliant tournament, why on earth did we scrap it?

because we were moving to something bigger and better remember!

Oh.....

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The Four Nations was a brilliant tournament, why on earth did we scrap it?

Bring back tours or something else from the 80s? Hasn't really worked has it.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

because we were moving to something bigger and better remember!

Oh.....

The thing is we were, with the Confederations Cup etc. The trouble is it was scrapped and about 4 subsequent plans have been scrapped too. The only regular thing has been the World Cup.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

The thing is we were, with the Confederations Cup etc. The trouble is it was scrapped and about 4 subsequent plans have been scrapped too. The only regular thing has been the World Cup.

Don't forget that awesome 9's tournament.

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

If the Kumuls came for their first non-World Cup games over here in nearly 3 decades would there be much interest or respect. Very much doubt it.

What if they came over and beat you 3-0 ?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

What if they came over and beat you 3-0 ?

PNG in England is a very different proposition than PNG in PNG.

[HarrogateKnights]

It would be good to have a double header of say England Knights vs PNG followed by England vs Tonga could even get the England women involved vs PNG as a warmup to England Knights!

[unapologetic pedant]

12 hours ago, The Rocket said:

What if they came over and beat you 3-0 ?

By the time the media were taking them seriously they`d be back on the plane home. Followed by a period of out of sight out of mind. If they returned four years later it would be as the no-hope Papuans. Same pattern as any English success in Australia. Je suis Papuan.

[unapologetic pedant]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

PNG in England is a very different proposition than PNG in PNG.

Assuming that continues to be true, how will it change if we never play them?

[The Rocket]

58 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Je suis Papuan

My first girlfriend spoke French.    " I am Papuan. " Correct me if I am wrong. 

Great doco here the other night, Shaun Dorney , long time ABC correspondent in P.N.G. Captained the P.N.G. National Rugby League team in his early years there. Great team photos on a bus.

I am surprised that you had no comment when we were discussing the relative sizes of different RL playing nations the other night and the topic of Papuan reunification came up.

My grandfather spent the war in New Guinea, when asked what he did, he used to say I collected `butterflies`. Came back with a magnificent butterfly collection.