Elstone talks TV deal, Private Equity and next season (ish)

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

 

Its telling that despite being Super League club venues, in the UK, without any ground share arrangements, Super League and Sky didn't show a single game from Cas, Wakefield or Hull KR since the restart (only on OuRLeague) iirc. They're not great visually when full, they're worse empty. Slightly different for Wheldon road in person tbf, but not really relevant with no attendees.

I'm not sure that's telling at all. They also didn't show standalone games at Hudds. 

Sky showed all the magic-style games that SL staged, and they were staged across the three grounds. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that's telling at all. They also didn't show standalone games at Hudds. 

Sky showed all the magic-style games that SL staged, and they were staged across the three grounds. 

Leeds, Saints, Wigan and Warrington are carrying Wakefield, Castleford and Hull kr. It’s time to stop the small clubs holding the sport back.

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Leeds, Saints, Wigan and Warrington are carrying Wakefield, Castleford and Hull kr. It’s time to stop the small clubs holding the sport back.

Yes, I'm sure those four could make a very effective league on their own.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

Yes, I'm sure those four could make a very effective league on their own.

If they did and you throw in Hull FC, Catalans, Toulouse, York, Newcastle, London, Wales and Toronto I bet Sky would up the tv deal on offer 

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that's telling at all. They also didn't show standalone games at Hudds. 

Sky showed all the magic-style games that SL staged, and they were staged across the three grounds. 

And Wigan, and Hull, and Salford, all with the same shared stadia issue. Not a problem at Wakey, Cas, or East Hull.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Leeds, Saints, Wigan and Warrington are carrying Wakefield, Castleford and Hull kr. It’s time to stop the small clubs holding the sport back.

To a certain extent, that is what Private Equity money men may insist on.

Relatively, there is little difference between Cas, Wakefield, Hull KR and Salford and the Championship sides currently vying for selection to Super League and others outside of that group like Widnes, Doncaster, Newcastle etc.

However there is a qualitative difference between those and the big 6 (Huddersfield possibly to sneak into that to make it a big 7, a successful Bradford would sit comfortably in that group too). PE would want those strategically important clubs in Super League guaranteed, as they underpin the value of the Super League business they would have just invested into.

The trick will be to turn some of the first group clubs into the latter.

[Oxford]

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

a successful Bradford would sit comfortably in that group too

....a successful anybody would sit comfortably anywhere.

I do find it interesting when the lower edge of SL is blamed for holding back the sport, like the richer and more trophy laden ones have been trying to modernise, develop, progress and innovate at every turn.

It's patent nonsense, but there you go!

[Cerulean]

32 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If they did and you throw in Hull FC, Catalans, Toulouse, York, Newcastle, London, Wales and Toronto I bet Sky would up the tv deal on offer 

Would like suggest something approaching a viable pathway to achieving this? Perhaps with a sensible time span and some ball park costings?

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Oxford said:

....a successful anybody would sit comfortably anywhere.

I do find it interesting when the lower edge of SL is blamed for holding back the sport, like the richer and more trophy laden ones have been trying to modernise, develop, progress and innovate at every turn.

It's patent nonsense, but there you go!

No its not nonsense, certain clubs are simply unable to reach near 5 figure crowds at the moment even if they are successful. Bradford, in a successful position, would be comfortably among the top 6 or so clubs in England.

The top clubs, including my own, have realised they don't really need to innovate. The cap being so low means the best players will play for them for the relatively small difference as they have chance of winning stuff. They don't need to, the market is relatively stagnant with little impetus to innovate over the past decade.

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

certain clubs are simply unable to reach near 5 figure crowds

Because they're perennially unsuccessful, permanently at the lower end of enjoyment, fixtures in the looking up competition.

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The top clubs, including my own, have realised they don't really need to innovate.

So resting on their ar ses and laurels and doing nowt but complaining it's the fault of the ones below. Well you can never be wrong because it never changes so nothing can be proven either way. Using the clubs that are lower as a let off for being useless yourself. Sounds like old men justifying being placed beyond their talents and capabilities to me.

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Because they're perennially unsuccessful, permanently at the lower end of enjoyment, fixtures in the looking up competition.

So resting on their ar ses and laurels and doing nowt but complaining it's the fault of the ones below. Well you can never be wrong because it never changes so nothing can be proven either way. Using the clubs that are lower as a let off for being useless yourself. Sounds like old men justifying being placed beyond their talents and capabilities to me.

Eggggsaccctttlllleeeey

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Because they're perennially unsuccessful, permanently at the lower end of enjoyment, fixtures in the looking up competition.

So resting on their ar ses and laurels and doing nowt but complaining it's the fault of the ones below. Well you can never be wrong because it never changes so nothing can be proven either way. Using the clubs that are lower as a let off for being useless yourself. Sounds like old men justifying being placed beyond their talents and capabilities to me.

I'm all for new money and investment coming in to force innovation. Till it does, Leeds, Wigan etc don't need to worry themselves.

[GUBRATS]

55 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To a certain extent, that is what Private Equity money men may insist on.

Relatively, there is little difference between Cas, Wakefield, Hull KR and Salford and the Championship sides currently vying for selection to Super League and others outside of that group like Widnes, Doncaster, Newcastle etc.

However there is a qualitative difference between those and the big 6 (Huddersfield possibly to sneak into that to make it a big 7, a successful Bradford would sit comfortably in that group too). PE would want those strategically important clubs in Super League guaranteed, as they underpin the value of the Super League business they would have just invested into.

The trick will be to turn some of the first group clubs into the latter.

So , this ' successful ' Bradford requires them to be playing in Bradford in a suitable stadium , so essentially how much of your PE money are you putting aside to build them this venue ? , And what timescale are you suggesting ? 

So after we've seen the RFL sneaking around to save the Bulls , you now want the game to Hock itself to the eyeballs to save them again ? 

And then all this to end in the lower tiers being cut adrift ? , Fine , make the cut now , pick your chosen few , much as I put a few months ago , the rest can decide what they then want to do , I know what I'd want , it would involve no cross competition games or indeed player,coach movements 

[DI Keith Fowler]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

So , this ' successful ' Bradford requires them to be playing in Bradford in a suitable stadium , so essentially how much of your PE money are you putting aside to build them this venue ? , And what timescale are you suggesting ? 

So after we've seen the RFL sneaking around to save the Bulls , you now want the game to Hock itself to the eyeballs to save them again ? 

And then all this to end in the lower tiers being cut adrift ? , Fine , make the cut now , pick your chosen few , much as I put a few months ago , the rest can decide what they then want to do , I know what I'd want , it would involve no cross competition games or indeed player,coach movements 

You'd have absolutely no means of enforcing that. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

You'd have absolutely no means of enforcing that. 

No you wouldn't , other than agreeing not to 

[LeeF]

30 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No its not nonsense, certain clubs are simply unable to reach near 5 figure crowds at the moment even if they are successful. Bradford, in a successful position, would be comfortably among the top 6 or so clubs in England.

The top clubs, including my own, have realised they don't really need to innovate. The cap being so low means the best players will play for them for the relatively small difference as they have chance of winning stuff. They don't need to, the market is relatively stagnant with little impetus to innovate over the past decade.

Bradford haven’t got a ground that could hold near 5 figure crowds and there isn’t a realistic one on the horizon

Your second paragraph confirms that it is the salary cap in its current form that is the problem. The top of the cap should be unlimited subject to being no more than x% of income

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

And Wigan, and Hull, and Salford, all with the same shared stadia issue. Not a problem at Wakey, Cas, or East Hull.

Are you talking about playoff games versus nothing catchup games that were played rather randomly? 

The reason Sky were showing up to 5 games a round is because we were staging them at one venue. 

Sky also didn't show some of the 5th games that were scheduled at the main grounds, they were for OurLeague- although often they were called off in advance. 

[Dave T]

Of course if anybody was inclined to they could spin a really positive post about how clubs have invested in infrastructure including training facilities as well as stadia since they haven't been able to spend all their money on players. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Of course if anybody was inclined to they could spin a really positive post about how clubs have invested in infrastructure including training facilities as well as stadia since they haven't been able to spend all their money on players. 

Any examples ? 

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm all for new money and investment coming in to force innovation. Till it does, Leeds, Wigan etc don't need to worry themselves.

True but then they can't argue they're being held back, that's just logically bankrupt and morally questionable.

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Any examples ? 

Warrington, Wigan and Leeds to name just 3 have invested in off-field facilities in recent years. 

[Scotchy1]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Of course if anybody was inclined to they could spin a really positive post about how clubs have invested in infrastructure including training facilities as well as stadia since they haven't been able to spend all their money on players. 

You could, and for some clubs it would be a valid point. 

But its only one side of the coin. 

The game doesnt struggle because it spends too much. But because it brings in too little. 

[Rupert Prince]

6 hours ago, RP London said:

Not unless they renege on the agreement they signed early November to stay in the Rugby Championship until 2030. Their 4 clubs sides look likely to sign for the Pro12 to make it the Pro16 though

Thanks for that, as I read right up to Oct. it was being said they were moving.  Plenty politics going on I'm guessing.

[JohnM]

11 hours ago, gingerjon said:

When I was growing up people used to wax lyrical about the immediate post war boom in attendances and wonder why there were no fans any more.

Immediate post war attendance boom that wasn't,  not for GB vs Aus. As you say, people wax lyrical, though.

[M j M]

7 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

When RL is on TV from places like Castleford and Wakefield where the stadiums look like a toilet its a turn off as well for the casual fan.

I don't want to question your personal experience but I think this is absolute rubbish, from a TV perspective at least.

Which of these scenes is more likely to make a TV viewer think this sport isn't worth watching?

A

or B