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Over to you Cas. Get your water colours out

In reality, they've had 20 years head start. It was clear they were not getting a new stadium and hence were resigned to making the best of what they had. Not knocking them, they've done an excellent

From my POV, yes. It just smacks a lot... that the club did what it asked and got nowhere, whereas trinity and cas have horrible run down places and in Trinity's case, poor on field performance and fi

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You really are a cretin at times 

 

 

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

But our Mr Sinfield is too thick to realise his argument is hypocrisy , Lamport Stadium , owned by Toronto council 

Make your point without the name calling, it’s complete unnecessary.

Lamport Stadium is a true community stadium, it’s used by Canadian Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Soccer and Field Hockey as well as been used for the Toronto Caribbean Carnival. I really don’t think a Council owned Stadium in Leigh or Wakefield would have the same level of usage across the community.

It’s true many countries have local government sporting arenas but that is less common here, how would Leigh or Wakefield Council tax payers think if they built a basketball or ice hockey arena with the council tax money? You are only in favour of the council spending money on rugby league because you are a rugby league fan. I’m not going to criticise the council for not building a new stadium in Wakefield, it’s the clubs in Wakefield’s responsibility, Leigh have been very fortunate and should be extremely grateful.

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13 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

Make your point without the name calling, it’s complete unnecessary.

Lamport Stadium is a true community stadium, it’s used by Canadian Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Soccer and Field Hockey as well as been used for the Toronto Caribbean Carnival. I really don’t think a Council owned Stadium in Leigh or Wakefield would have the same level of usage across the community.

It’s true many countries have local government sporting arenas but that is less common here, how would Leigh or Wakefield Council tax payers think if they built a basketball or ice hockey arena with the council tax money? You are only in favour of the council spending money on rugby league because you are a rugby league fan. I’m not going to criticise the council for not building a new stadium in Wakefield, it’s the clubs in Wakefield’s responsibility, Leigh have been very fortunate and should be extremely grateful.

It's a bit of a "special" place though. Wakefield District (population 330k) only has 3 professional sports clubs, all of them play RL. You'd think the council would at least support that unique selling point.

Anyway, it's a new era without Peter Box. The council loaned Wakefield Trinity the money to buy back the ground and surrounding land. They also took charge of the ground in the mid-80s when the club were in deep doodah. So we can't really say they've done nothing, except when PB was in charge as he was paranoid that if Trinity got a fit-for-purpose ground before his beloved Castleford, their future in SL could be in jeopardy. 

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1 hour ago, Wholly Trinity said:

It's a bit of a "special" place though. Wakefield District (population 330k) only has 3 professional sports clubs, all of them play RL. You'd think the council would at least support that unique selling point.

Anyway, it's a new era without Peter Box. The council loaned Wakefield Trinity the money to buy back the ground and surrounding land. They also took charge of the ground in the mid-80s when the club were in deep doodah. So we can't really say they've done nothing, except when PB was in charge as he was paranoid that if Trinity got a fit-for-purpose ground before his beloved Castleford, their future in SL could be in jeopardy. 

The thing is they can’t build 3 stadiums that would cost far too much. If the 3 professional sports clubs in Wakefield agreed to share I’m sure the council would build them one, but they won’t.

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The thing is they can’t build 3 stadiums that would cost far too much. If the 3 professional sports clubs in Wakefield agreed to share I’m sure the council would build them one, but they won’t.

Yes and this was always Peter Box's fall-back argument. Merger is never going to happen.

They don't need to build 3 stadia, but some sustained proactive support would have meant 3 fit-for-purpose grounds would exist. There are many benefits of decent sporting facilities in a district including bringing in cash. 

Anyway, as I say, if this comes off, the council will have played their part, if somewhat belatedly. 

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14 hours ago, M j M said:

It's impossible to overstate how much the lack of local government support has had on Cas and Wakey. From Hull to St Helens every other club have needed significant council involvement in new stadia or redevelopments either in nodding through supermarket enabling developments or in financing the thing (apart from Leeds and even then there is an element and Wigan who use a football ground).

Getting this stuff done with a hostile or indifferent council is nearly impossible.

Fev seem to have managed somehow though, haven't they?

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Where have I suggested it's the council's responsibility ? , You really are a cretin at times 

The LSV was built for SL , at a time when the RFL basically had it as a race to put together SL standard facilities and you would receive a SL licence , Leigh did finish in a SL finishing position , but then the RFL allowed 4/5 clubs to renieg on their promises and get a place in front of us 

As 2017 showed , we can put a substantial attendance in the stadium with a reasonably competitive squad , and in fact , the way the deal with the LSV is set up , in SL the stadium is free for the club to use , and in fact at a slightly higher level than we achieved in 2017 the stadium starts to actually pay the club to play there 

Not that you are interested in any of this , but I'm sure some other genuine RL fans on this board are interested HTH 

This tale doesn't stack up though, does it?

Previous claims on this thread state that Leigh had nothing to do with the stadium design or build so how can you claim that the LSV was built for SL?

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Councils and Local Authorities all over the world regularly build or assist in building sports stadiums. Some inevitably will be white elephants but others will be fantastic little community hubs.

Now I know we're not communists but we're also not flush with the cash needed for this sort of investment - so municipal owned or at least multi partner facilities make sense.

Yes, so one decent stadium for both Cas and Wakefield would do, as would one good stadium in Hull.

That makes sense, surely?

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5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Yes, so one decent stadium for both Cas and Wakefield would do, as would one good stadium in Hull.

That makes sense, surely?

Only if you think that it's a good idea to strip a sport built on local identity and fierce independence of those attributes.

What works in people's minds as "logical" often bears little relation to how things work in the real world where spectators aren't commodities which can be allocated backwards and forth.

Move a team to a shared stadium outside their town and you will very easily crush what keeps some clubs going.

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

Only if you think that it's a good idea to strip a sport built on local identity and fierce independence of those attributes.

What works in people's minds as "logical" often bears little relation to how things work in the real world where spectators aren't commodities which can be allocated backwards and forth.

Move a team to a shared stadium outside their town and you will very easily crush what keeps some clubs going.

I'm struggling to think of an example in the UK of a successful - and positive - stadium share by teams from within the same sport.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Fev seem to have managed somehow though, haven't they?

In reality, they've had 20 years head start. It was clear they were not getting a new stadium and hence were resigned to making the best of what they had. Not knocking them, they've done an excellent job.

However, both cas and wakey always had the tease of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in the perpetual plans for new stadia. Why would you throw money into a decrepit stadium when a brand new replacement was just around the corner?  

The sky money argument is a red herring. If you want to stay in SL you need to spend it on players to be competitive. Particularly if your other sources of income are limited. Fev would have done exactly the same if they'd been promoted.  

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22 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Yes, so one decent stadium for both Cas and Wakefield would do, as would one good stadium in Hull.

That makes sense, surely?

No, but 1 would do for 1 club - as we're now seeing with the support the council are giving Wakefield. 

And having 1 decent stadium in Hull has meant KR have had to invest or find investment in theirs. That is the nub of it. You either accept the bounds of council support which are always going to involve compromises, or you go your own.

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11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

It is fully understandable though , it can also work the other way , as I put earlier , Leigh initially turned down moving into the LSV on the current terms , the loss of revenue was substantial , basically making us not viable in SL 

We often see it suggested that moving into a new council owned stadium with nice shiney new corporate facilities will result in increased corporate and sponsorship income , but that isn't necessarily how it works , if let's say CAS got the stadium at glasshoughton under council ownership , their corporate costing could easily double in price , and given the out if town location it might well drop in take up , they could lose all or some of their stadium advertising , as has happened at Leigh they might find they have to pay rent for their back office , rent for their merchandise outlet , rent for their community staff if they want them at the stadium 

If let's say Leeds council had offered the Rhino's and Utd a nice shiney new 60,000 mega stadium , would the Rhino's have gone ? , Giving up control of their corporate and concession sales ? 

It would be more impressive than Headingley , but not as financially viable 

If the compromise works then it works. If it doesn't then you have to accept less or no council support.

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4 hours ago, M j M said:

What a feature the a preserved West Stand would have been of a redeveloped stadium, like the Cottage in Fulham. It's the sort of thing we neglect to keep hold of in Rugby League.

I think that's why the terracing is so shallow on that side as it was literally built on the old cycle track with not much elevation.

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18 hours ago, silverback said:

 am thinking of the one on the right as you come in from carpark, the one on the left had a sponser on too,think it were some beer company but that were a lot a years ago. might a been changed now but it deffo had 2 big massive black squares in for years,it were a time when the sponser was on flanshaw lane and you could by asbestos sheets no probs,they went bust and it were painted out, my workshop were over near the new houses by ice cream place masserelies.

There's never beena  rood on that stand, not until recently when they had to put one on to meet ground standards, not sure which ground you're thinking of to be honest.

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As something of a cynic in regards to rugby league grounds redevelopment,especially Castlefords,what do Wakefields fans think of the proposals. Are they realistic,do you believe they will happen,do you have faith in the supposed funding,what is the proposed timing?

I hope they materialise but can someone convince me that they will happen within a realistic timeframe. Are there any forseeable problems,difficulties,delays?

Certainly,year round revenue from a corporate entertaining/dining area would help stabalise finances and I'm not aware of major competition in the Wakefield area from established corporate facilities,hotels etc.

I just need to believe in the proposal !

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11 minutes ago, cookey said:

As something of a cynic in regards to rugby league grounds redevelopment,especially Castlefords,what do Wakefields fans think of the proposals. Are they realistic,do you believe they will happen,do you have faith in the supposed funding,what is the proposed timing?

I hope they materialise but can someone convince me that they will happen within a realistic timeframe. Are there any forseeable problems,difficulties,delays?

Certainly,year round revenue from a corporate entertaining/dining area would help stabalise finances and I'm not aware of major competition in the Wakefield area from established corporate facilities,hotels etc.

I just need to believe in the proposal !

Until its built there will always be scepticism. The funding is reliant upon a developer who has form for getting what they need and reneging upon their obligations. With it being just the one stand and a face lift of another, with a new pitch and flood lights, its certainly more realistic than a full new stadium and the timing for work is next off season all being well. 

As I keep saying, time will tell. AFAIK were not entering a licence period so the stadium upgrade will be irrelevant to Trinity's continue presence in the top flight. That will be up to Chester and co. The notion that this is just a guise to maintain top flight status is child like logic.

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44 minutes ago, cookey said:

As something of a cynic in regards to rugby league grounds redevelopment,especially Castlefords,what do Wakefields fans think of the proposals. Are they realistic,do you believe they will happen,do you have faith in the supposed funding,what is the proposed timing?

I hope they materialise but can someone convince me that they will happen within a realistic timeframe. Are there any forseeable problems,difficulties,delays?

Certainly,year round revenue from a corporate entertaining/dining area would help stabalise finances and I'm not aware of major competition in the Wakefield area from established corporate facilities,hotels etc.

I just need to believe in the proposal !

I think this is the most realistic plan they've every come up with frankly.

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4 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

In reality, they've had 20 years head start. It was clear they were not getting a new stadium and hence were resigned to making the best of what they had. Not knocking them, they've done an excellent job.

However, both cas and wakey always had the tease of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in the perpetual plans for new stadia. Why would you throw money into a decrepit stadium when a brand new replacement was just around the corner?  

The sky money argument is a red herring. If you want to stay in SL you need to spend it on players to be competitive. Particularly if your other sources of income are limited. Fev would have done exactly the same if they'd been promoted.  

20 years start? Cas first announced plans for a new ground at Glasshoughton 46 years ago.......

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5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I'm struggling to think of an example in the UK of a successful - and positive - stadium share by teams from within the same sport.

Ah, British exceptionalism!

Now I understand.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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4 hours ago, cookey said:

As something of a cynic in regards to rugby league grounds redevelopment,especially Castlefords,what do Wakefields fans think of the proposals. Are they realistic,do you believe they will happen,do you have faith in the supposed funding,what is the proposed timing?

I hope they materialise but can someone convince me that they will happen within a realistic timeframe. Are there any forseeable problems,difficulties,delays?

Certainly,year round revenue from a corporate entertaining/dining area would help stabalise finances and I'm not aware of major competition in the Wakefield area from established corporate facilities,hotels etc.

I just need to believe in the proposal !

I can think of 3 hotels that offer those types of facilities off the top of my head that are considerably more accessible from the M1 than BV.

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7 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

This tale doesn't stack up though, does it?

Previous claims on this thread state that Leigh had nothing to do with the stadium design or build so how can you claim that the LSV was built for SL?

You calling me a liar Johnny ? ūüėČ

By ' built for SL ' I mean it fits the criteria that had been set a few years previously , but also depending on the numbers attending , Leigh either pay rent , play for free , or actually get paid to play 

Initially there were 2 tenants , Leigh Centurions and Leigh ( formerly Horwich ) RMi football club , who plied their trade in the 6 th tier ( I stand to be corrected by Leyther Matt ) but hoped to make the fully pro ranks 

Unfortunately RMI couldn't sustain the costs and are now essentially just a junior set up in the town 

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