Hull refusing to release players for the England v Exiles game

[Hela Wigmen]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm all for playing France - I've watched these test matches since I was a kid, but RL fans moan about them being one-sided and don't support them and France struggle to get a team together, Catalans moan about how many players they lose and it is hardly a resounding success. I'd personally play a Test in France every year, but I won't bag the RFL for going in a different direction on this. 

I'm not sure of the massive importance of it being a nation - playing Serbia wouldn't be better than the Exiles for example.

This game is all about giving England RL a tough game, and that is what it would do. I'd expect us to play a warmup after the GF before the tournament too.

Playing a nation is important because we have a World Cup at the end of the year. It’s important we look to build on it early doors and push it into the eyes of people and building upon the good work in terms of marketing and advertising the competition, like how we saw at the back end of 2020. Exiles looks small time, is an exhibition game and is not wanted by clubs, players available to the Exiles and seemingly, plenty of fans too. The last time we went with this concept, it was farcical and will be again. Reviving dead concepts and ideas is our forte as a sport, mind. 

 

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think people need to calm down a touch on the France thing. Why do we need to give France a game? They are a bit of a car crash at international level. There are teams in Europe for them to play, it doesn't need to be all about England. 

France can get competitive games from other nations that are local to help develop their Test team. I don't have too much of an issue with Exiles or World XIII or similar, but as usual we have done it poorly. 

Ultimately, this is about trying to give England players a tough warmup game, and all SL clubs should be wanting the England team to succeed. But just sticking an international game in without any kind of participation agreement in place is an RFL failing. I don't like the way some clubs behave, but the RFL can't keep ignoring it and hope it will be fine - agreements need to be put in place. But that would mean some form of plan in place.

Pearson does need to be careful though, things like this risk undermining the World Cup - which is probably our biggest opportunity for growth the game has.

Who could France play in Europe that isn’t England, to get a competitive game? Wales at a push, but they’ll have an SL game whatever weekend it is too. 

[Eddie]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Playing a nation is important because we have a World Cup at the end of the year. It’s important we look to build on it early doors and push it into the eyes of people and building upon the good work in terms of marketing and advertising the competition, like how we saw at the back end of 2020. Exiles looks small time, is an exhibition game and is not wanted by clubs, players available to the Exiles and seemingly, plenty of fans too. The last time we went with this concept, it was farcical and will be again. Reviving dead concepts and ideas is our forte as a sport, mind. 

 

Imagine the England football team playing a game against the best foreign players in the Premier League and trying to call it an international fixture - the idea is laughable. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Playing a nation is important because we have a World Cup at the end of the year. It’s important we look to build on it early doors and push it into the eyes of people and building upon the good work in terms of marketing and advertising the competition, like how we saw at the back end of 2020. Exiles looks small time, is an exhibition game and is not wanted by clubs, players available to the Exiles and seemingly, plenty of fans too. The last time we went with this concept, it was farcical and will be again. Reviving dead concepts and ideas is our forte as a sport, mind. 

 

I think we sometimes overthink this stuff. 

It wasn't farcical last time. The first game, which was pretty interesting and launched well got over 14k in Leeds and the Exiles won that games. The following year they went for 2 games with over 11k at Saints. McNamara then undermined it all by playing his reserve team at Hudds in game 2, they even wore the alternate strip and the crowd reacted accordingly. The third year was organised poorly and it dies off. But we can easily do the same analysis on games against France that will apparenlt have credibility.

I don't think it is helpful for us to just call everything farcical - it is a game to give England RL a run-out.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Imagine the England football team playing a game against the best foreign players in the Premier League and trying to call it an international fixture - the idea is laughable. 

When every country in the world plays RL and we have an endless list of nations to play that comparison will be relevant.

Even RU has the likes of Barbarians.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Who could France play in Europe that isn’t England, to get a competitive game? Wales at a push, but they’ll have an SL game whatever weekend it is too. 

I'm not just talking about the weekend in question - but again, that is for the French authorities to sort out. Similarly for the Welsh, Scottish and Irish nations. 

We really really need to get away from the RFL and the ARL/NRL just organising the whole of the international game.

Are the French lobbying the IRL to get an international weekend in 2021?

[redjonn]

13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Playing a nation is important because we have a World Cup at the end of the year. It’s important we look to build on it early doors and push it into the eyes of people and building upon the good work in terms of marketing and advertising the competition, like how we saw at the back end of 2020. Exiles looks small time, is an exhibition game and is not wanted by clubs, players available to the Exiles and seemingly, plenty of fans too. The last time we went with this concept, it was farcical and will be again. Reviving dead concepts and ideas is our forte as a sport, mind. 

 

I enjoyed watching the games last time... whether farcical or not... so did the family.

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When every country in the world plays RL and we have an endless list of nations to play that comparison will be relevant.

Even RU has the likes of Barbarians.

Good point re the Barbarians, though that is a tradition and not something thrown together at short notice which annoys clubs and players alike. I don’t think playing France is the golden chalice, but as the England team will be depleted by lack of NRL players anyway it would be much preferable to this Exiles concept. 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Good point re the Barbarians, though that is a tradition and not something thrown together at short notice which annoys clubs and players alike. I don’t think playing France is the golden chalice, but as the England team will be depleted by lack of NRL players anyway it would be much preferable to this Exiles concept. 

A big problem with playing France in season is that it does clash with Catalans season - if they went down the route of only releasing 3 players which I thing SL clubs will do, then we end up with a very weak French team and we miss the aim of having a strong contest in a World Cup year. 

Ultimately, we need international dedicated weekends, and the IRL needs to be making this happen.

[dboy]

47 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So playing a cluster of players representing no one and nothing is better than playing a nation in a World Cup year? Right-o. 

So you are saying that SL fixtures SHOULD be cancelled, to play the rep game that weekend?

[Scubby]

If it was a full international the clubs would have to release players. That was the RFL's decision they cannot force clubs to release players for an exhibition game.

[Spidey]

With everything going on this year the last thing we need is more arguing at the top, I'm not sure why Hull think they're an exception to everybody else - all clubs agreed to playing fixtures at the same time as England when it was highly likely or even confirmed they were playing the Exiles, why kick up a fuss after its been agreed?

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If it was a full international the clubs would have to release players. That was the RFL's decision they cannot force clubs to release players for an exhibition game.

It doesn't change the fact that particularly in WC year there really should be cooperation here. 

[MZH]

Look at it from Pearson's point of view. He is a club chairman and therefore his club has to come first. We are just starting to move out of lockdown, which no doubt has hit the club and himself in the pocket pretty severely (and yes I know all clubs are in the same boat here). The game that weekend is due to be Hull's first home game without restrictions in about 16 months. No doubt they will try to make it a big event and get a bumper crowd in and will be wanting to put on a show. Now, at a time in the season where players will already be starting to feel the strain of the fixture list, Hull could potentially be without 5 or 6 of their star attractions. The NRL players not being involved means its very possible that the likes of Connor, Taylor and Griffin could get selected, along with the likes Mau, Tuimavave, Reynolds for the exiles.

Maybe we could look at a system where a maximum of 4 players per club can be selected for the game, or something similar that will make it fair. As I've already said, Pearson isn't against International rugby league by any means. If its a system that is fair for every club then I'm sure he would object much less. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Ultimately, both Super League and The RFL have backloaded their respective fixtures in a hope that fans will be allowed to attend them and this is where the issue lies. 

Super League have scheduled their first twelve rounds to be completed in 98 days, whereas the remaining thirteen rounds are then completed in 77 days. The first twelve rounds see a turnaround of 8.16 days between games, the remaining thirteen are then completed in 5.92 days. That’s without the Challenge Cup added to the mix. 

The RFL have, seemingly, been of the same mindset in respect to placing their game at a position where they hoped fans may have been allowed to attend and it so happens that they’ve just snuck into that category, with 25th June being just a few days after the projected 21st June lifting of restrictions. 

I can see clubs anger at this, I can get why you’d not want to release players at that point of the season. I can only predict the rage if a key Antipodean player is injured playing an exhibition game just two and a half weeks or so out from the Challenge Cup Final. 

Whether the Exiles is right opponent or not is a bit of a sideshow to all of this (for what it’s worth, they’re not, they should be rubbing shoulders with Celtic Crusaders and the Margin Meter in Rugby League Room 101), the issue is the timing of the fixture and the lack of communication between the RFL and Super League at such a crucial junction in the season.

 

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It doesn't change the fact that particularly in WC year there really should be cooperation here. 

For all the talk about unifying the game now that the scapegoat has gone there seems to be precious little meaningful movement in that direction.

And, right now, I can't see anyone who is blameless in that regard.

[Scubby]

31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It doesn't change the fact that particularly in WC year there really should be cooperation here. 

Clubs are fighting for their lives financially and striving for success. Having one player called up for England is one thing. Having 5 of your overseas players called up for a team in an exhibition is another. Do the other countries want their international stars playing for the Exiles? Are the insurance/compensation terms acceptable? There is a lot more to this than just let them play?

[Scubby]

 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Adam Pearson makes a suggestion that the game should be played as a double header at Wembley on the challenge cup final day. The 2 challenge cup finalists would not provide players but the other 10 clubs would.

There already is a double header scheduled for Wembley.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Clubs are fighting for their lives financially and striving for success. Having one player called up for England is one thing. Having 5 of your overseas players called up for a team in an exhibition is another. Do the other countries want their international stars playing for the Exiles? Are the insurance/compensation terms acceptable? There is a lot more to this than just let them play?

We've been here before. None of it is new. 

There will be agreements on how many players can be selected as there always is with these mid-season games. 

[boris74]

Having both hemispheres align an international weekend into the calendar raised my hopes that we are starting to take the international game seriously and maybe had a long term plan for growth - never mind!

Finishing the super league season two weeks before a World Cup whilst also playing league fixtures on said weekend show exactly what is wrong with our decision makers and leaders. I appreciate the financial toughness of a pandemic etc but this simply does not provide the best opportunity for an England success in the World Cup and the riches that may follow if they did.

Nope, Hull V Salford three times please, that's the future!

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

So you are saying that SL fixtures SHOULD be cancelled, to play the rep game that weekend?

That is an obvious thing to do, one less loop fixture. 

[Click]

7 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

They’re picking an exhibition game rather than playing a true international game against an actual nation, in a World Cup year. It’s the same old from The RFL. 

Except the Exiles will give England a good game against high quality opposition. Every other team we could play in the NH we end up putting 40 easily on them. This is the only opposition England can choose to play right now.

France would just be half of the Catalans team, and until Robinson sorts them out, won't be that useful for England in a mid season game, as has been proved previously. If France wants to play, they can play Wales or someone else that can actually give them a game.

England need to play a game before the WC. The fact it's the exiles isn't the greatest, but it is the only option we have in order to have a competitive game. 

In regards to other posts, we don't need the NRL players for England to play, it gives opportunities to those in SL that could be pushing to try and be included in the WC squad at the end of the year.

If Hull don't want to lose 5 + players to the Exiles, perhaps they should concentrate more on getting more English players through, rather than relying on overseas players. They've been talking about bringing the Exiles back for a year or so more, and it was something we've done previously, so it isn't quite so out of the blue. 

All this game is is for an opportunity to get those England players together, get them to train together, and then have a high intensity game so Wane can finally have a better view of how some of these combinations would work. We need a warm up game before the WC, England haven't played in years, some of that is due to the RFL not being particularly proactive, and some of it is because of Covid and the cancellation of the Ashes last year. 

2021 should be the biggest year for RL in this country in almost a decade, and clubs should be doing everything to try and ensure England have the best chance to win the WC, as if they do it will bring in a hell of a lot more money into the sport than just the club game brings in. International sport is what the UK loves above all else IMO.

[Rupert Prince]

17 hours ago, UTK said:

Why would a potential Exiles player want to suit up for an additional high intensity game to risk injuring himself while also weakening his club for that week? To help England get a leg-up in preparation for the WC? The 'honour' associated with being recognised as one of the best 'Exiles'? Bettering their chances for selection.... for the Exiles next year?

I suspect any Owner/Coach who takes Pearson's stance won't face much resistance from the players in question and I would be surprised if there isn't players who pull themselves out. I hope for England's sake they actually sounded out potential Exiles before deciding to shaft France/Wales, rather than assuming they will all jump at the chance to play.

And if it was an England v Wales?

Or if it was an East v West Origin game?

So when push comes to shove fans don't want representative rugby.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Click said:

Except the Exiles will give England a good game against high quality opposition. Every other team we could play in the NH we end up putting 40 easily on them. This is the only opposition England can choose to play right now.

France would just be half of the Catalans team, and until Robinson sorts them out, won't be that useful for England in a mid season game, as has been proved previously. If France wants to play, they can play Wales or someone else that can actually give them a game.

England need to play a game before the WC. The fact it's the exiles isn't the greatest, but it is the only option we have in order to have a competitive game. 

In regards to other posts, we don't need the NRL players for England to play, it gives opportunities to those in SL that could be pushing to try and be included in the WC squad at the end of the year.

If Hull don't want to lose 5 + players to the Exiles, perhaps they should concentrate more on getting more English players through, rather than relying on overseas players. They've been talking about bringing the Exiles back for a year or so more, and it was something we've done previously, so it isn't quite so out of the blue. 

All this game is is for an opportunity to get those England players together, get them to train together, and then have a high intensity game so Wane can finally have a better view of how some of these combinations would work. We need a warm up game before the WC, England haven't played in years, some of that is due to the RFL not being particularly proactive, and some of it is because of Covid and the cancellation of the Ashes last year. 

2021 should be the biggest year for RL in this country in almost a decade, and clubs should be doing everything to try and ensure England have the best chance to win the WC, as if they do it will bring in a hell of a lot more money into the sport than just the club game brings in. International sport is what the UK loves above all else IMO.

Wow, this is a hot take. I don’t even know where to start with this rubbish. Blaming Hull for having players from the Southern Hemisphere is a cherry on a ###### cake of a post.

The Exiles is a rubbish concept. The attendances and general feel for it the last time is enough of an indicator that we should steer clear of this. Reviving it is embarrassing. 

Playing International games is important. Playing exhibitions isn’t.