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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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5 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Sometimes organisations have to take leadership decisions affecting those they are responsible for. That's what the Aussie and NZ administrators have done. The idea that everything can always be resolved by asking the players, is just not reality. You have administrators in order to make decisions on things. That's what they're paid for. Sometimes you might agree with their decisions, sometimes you might not. But that's how it is. They have a responsibility to more than just players. What about all the people that have to travel with the team - people who might be older and more vulnerable than elite athletes.

I'm not saying that they made the right decision - I haven't studied all the information to make that decision. However, I do read what others say, and I note that Cameron Smith said that he wouldn't be travelling, were he still playing at 38. I know this was partly because at that age he'd been in several World Cups, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he still wouldn't have come. Not because he's a bully, not because he's a coward, not because he doesn't care about international RL, but because he has concerns as a result of the wider Covid situation.

Given everything that's gone on in the past year and a half, I'm quite happy to show some empathy and understanding to people who have such concerns. That includes Aussie and NZ rugby league administrators.

At the expense of having empathy with the RLPA, Christian Welch, Jason Taumalolo, numerous senior Australian international players, the entire northern hemisphere rugby league community, all those Pacific island players who are desperate to be able to follow through on their human right to represent their nation, the wheelchair players who were going to have an opportunity to play in the greatest tournament of their careers to date?

The only empathy you are showing is with the parochial interests of the NRL clubs who are worried their 2022 pre season may be a little bit disrupted and their power over world rugby league may not be as strong as it has been.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but your posts to date suggest you don't understand the concept of shame - just like the NRL administrators you are trying to defend.

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14 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Sometimes organisations have to take leadership decisions affecting those they are responsible for. That's what the Aussie and NZ administrators have done. The idea that everything can always be resolved by asking the players, is just not reality. You have administrators in order to make decisions on things. That's what they're paid for. Sometimes you might agree with their decisions, sometimes you might not. But that's how it is. They have a responsibility to more than just players. What about all the people that have to travel with the team - people who might be older and more vulnerable than elite athletes.

I'm not saying that they made the right decision - I haven't studied all the information to make that decision. However, I do read what others say, and I note that Cameron Smith said that he wouldn't be travelling, were he still playing at 38. I know this was partly because at that age he'd been in several World Cups, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he still wouldn't have come. Not because he's a bully, not because he's a coward, not because he doesn't care about international RL, but because he has concerns as a result of the wider Covid situation.

Given everything that's gone on in the past year and a half, I'm quite happy to show some empathy and understanding to people who have such concerns. That includes Aussie and NZ rugby league administrators.

With respect, the second half of your post (focusing on personal choice) contradicts your first part which supports the decision of the authorities to take a unilateral decision.

If the decision to not send a team is valid (right or wrong), why should Cameron Smith's opinion on whether he would have made the choice to come matter at all?

Edited by Dunbar
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Just now, Dunbar said:

If the decision to not send a team is valid (right or wrong), why should Cameron Smith's opinion matter at all?

I was illustrating that it's not only the administrators who have concluded that it's not the right time to travel here to the UK for a world cup.

Some people have been arguing that the decision had nothing to do with Covid. That argument is slightly undermined when the likes of Cameron Smith say that he wouldn't have come either. Presumably he's not part of any conspiracy by the NRL to take over and destroy whatever they're supposed to be taking over and destroying.

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

I was illustrating that it's not only the administrators who have concluded that it's not the right time to travel here to the UK for a world cup.

Some people have been arguing that the decision had nothing to do with Covid. That argument is slightly undermined when the likes of Cameron Smith say that he wouldn't have come either. Presumably he's not part of any conspiracy by the NRL to take over and destroy whatever they're supposed to be taking over and destroying.

He’s also not a rugby league player so whether he’d travel to England or not is pointless.

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

I was illustrating that it's not only the administrators who have concluded that it's not the right time to travel here to the UK for a world cup.

Some people have been arguing that the decision had nothing to do with Covid. That argument is slightly undermined when the likes of Cameron Smith say that he wouldn't have come either. Presumably he's not part of any conspiracy by the NRL to take over and destroy whatever they're supposed to be taking over and destroying.

Cameron Smith is perfectly entitled to his opinion, just as you are. However, just because he is "Cameron Smith" it doesn't mean his opinion carries any more weight than the RLPA and those players, personalities and pundits who believe it is perfectly viable to run the world cup this year.

The fact that he may be involved with coaching Queensland in SOO going forward also suggests it may be in Cameron's interests to toe the NRL line rather than think independently and with consideration to the greater good of the game. Potentially.

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Just now, Davo5 said:

He’s also not a rugby league player so whether he’d travel to England or not is pointless.

He was giving his opinion of what he'd do if he was still playing. It's very possible that if he feels that way, there would be other current (perhaps older) players who also feel the same.

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1 minute ago, Spotty Herbert said:

Cameron Smith is perfectly entitled to his opinion, just as you are. However, just because he is "Cameron Smith" it doesn't mean his opinion carries any more weight than the RLPA and those players, personalities and pundits who believe it is perfectly viable to run the world cup this year.

I didn't say his opinion carries more weight than anyone else. I just said what his opinion is. And I would conclude that if someone like him feels that way, there might possibly be current players who also think the same. In addition, my point was that that it's not just Aussie/NZ administrators that have concerns about coming here.

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Just now, 17 stone giant said:

He was giving his opinion of what he'd do if he was still playing. It's very possible that if he feels that way, there would be other current (perhaps older) players who also feel the same.

There are a number of high profile international players who have said they want to come over, can you name one that has said they don't?

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Just now, 17 stone giant said:

I didn't say his opinion carries more weight than anyone else. I just said what his opinion is. And I would conclude that if someone like him feels that way, there might possibly be current players who also think the same. In addition, my point was that that it's not just Aussie/NZ administrators that have concerns about coming here.

I have no doubt there are current players who are concerned. I believe Jahrome Luai has said today that he is likely to stay at home rather than represent Samoa and that is absolutely fine. However, more players have said they want to come than have said they would rather stay at home. They are being bullied into losing the chance to represent their country. At least give them a chance to make a decision for themselves.

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Just now, Whippet13 said:

 

There are a number of high profile international players who have said they want to come over, can you name one that has said they don't?

If I can't name one, it must follow that every single player must want to come then, yes?

 

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20 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Some people have been arguing that the decision had nothing to do with Covid.

Of course it is to do with Covid because Covid is the factor that has come into play in order for the NRL clubs to influence the players' participation in the World Cup.

For pretty much every other sport in the World, Covid was a challenge to overcome in order to continue with international sport.

For the NRL (and therefore the ARL and NZRL), Covid is a perfect excuse not to commit to our World Cup and they have taken that decision without consultation with the people they are professing to protect.

I would never blame or shame any player who decides not to come but all I ask for is choice just as all the Euro footballers, British Lions, Olymplalians and soon to be Paralympians have had their freedom of choice to participate or not.

Edited by Dunbar
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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

For the NRL (and therefore the ARL and NZRL), Covid is a perfect excuse not to commit to our World Cup

But they asked for it to be moved until 2022. They haven't said they don't want there to be a World Cup - they've said only that they don't feel able to attend this year.

I don't understand therefore what the big conspiracy is supposed to be. Can you explain to me please what they are achieving by wanting the World Cup delayed for one year. What will they be gaining by doing this?

It's not the first time they've come here for a world cup. They did so in 1995, 2000, and 2013 (as well as agreeing prior to the Covid outbreak to come here this year). Can you please outline to me what their masterplan is? Why do they want the WC postponed for a year?

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3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

But they asked for it to be moved until 2022. They haven't said they don't want there to be a World Cup - they've said only that they don't feel able to attend this year.

I don't understand therefore what the big conspiracy is supposed to be. Can you explain to me please what they are achieving by wanting the World Cup delayed for one year. What will they be gaining by doing this?

It's not the first time they've come here for a world cup. They did so in 1995, 2000, and 2013 (as well as agreeing prior to the Covid outbreak to come here this year). Can you please outline to me what their masterplan is? Why do they want the WC postponed for a year?

And what about if it cant take place next year? There is absolutely no guarantee that Australia and NZ will come next year either.

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

But they asked for it to be moved until 2022. They haven't said they don't want there to be a World Cup - they've said only that they don't feel able to attend this year.

I don't understand therefore what the big conspiracy is supposed to be. Can you explain to me please what they are achieving by wanting the World Cup delayed for one year. What will they be gaining by doing this?

It's not the first time they've come here for a world cup. They did so in 1995, 2000, and 2013 (as well as agreeing prior to the Covid outbreak to come here this year). Can you please outline to me what their masterplan is? Why do they want the WC postponed for a year?

The event cannot be postponed for a year because the finances and logistics make it impossible. You cannot run a rugby league world cup at the same time as the build up to the FIFA world cup. There would be no broadcast hours to compare to what can be achieved this year and much of the government money that is dependent on the event going ahead in 2021 would disappear. The NRL administrators know this and are trying to hide behind this to avoid being honest about the reasons they don't want to take part.

You have made an extremely strong attempt to defend the undefendable, but I am sorry to say that you cannot win the argument because it is undefendable.

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10 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

If I can't name one, it must follow that every single player must want to come then, yes?

 

The very same logic you use implies that because one ex player says he wouldn't come then they all don't want to come, and yet a number of current and ex players have openly said they would come given free choice.

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33 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

He was giving his opinion of what he'd do if he was still playing. It's very possible that if he feels that way, there would be other current (perhaps older) players who also feel the same.

Wayne Bennett says otherwise..

He got fired off from England but still says the right thing.

No one is stating the obvious either, just delay the start of the NRL for 2 weeks then no issues

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

But they asked for it to be moved until 2022. They haven't said they don't want there to be a World Cup - they've said only that they don't feel able to attend this year.

I don't understand therefore what the big conspiracy is supposed to be. Can you explain to me please what they are achieving by wanting the World Cup delayed for one year. What will they be gaining by doing this?

It's not the first time they've come here for a world cup. They did so in 1995, 2000, and 2013 (as well as agreeing prior to the Covid outbreak to come here this year). Can you please outline to me what their masterplan is? Why do they want the WC postponed for a year?

I think this is a fair point.

But to counter.  In many ways, it is not what they have done, more how they have done it that is difficult to swallow. The timing and the authoritarian manner they have managed the players. 

My point is that the future is an unknown. All the other sports I can think of move heaven and earth to put their events on this year... yet we think of reasons why we can't play.

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1 minute ago, Whippet13 said:

The very same logic you use implies that because one ex player says he wouldn't come then they all don't want to come, and yet a number of current and ex players have openly said they would come given free choice.

Except that's not what I said at all. Nowhere did I say that because Cameron Smith wouldn't have come, that it means no player would want to come. That's a ridiculous thought process and one that I didn't have. You've just completely made it up.

I said that because Cameron Smith said he wouldn't have come, it makes me think that it's very possible that there are some current players who will feel the same. I didn't say ALL of them, I said SOME. And judging by what another poster said (mentioning a Samoan player not wanting to come), it would appear that I was correct with my suspicions.

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2 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Wayne Bennett says otherwise..

He got fired off from England but still says the right thing.

No one is stating the obvious either, just delay the start of the NRL for 2 weeks then no issues

Phil Gould said its a nonsense idea when the idea of a later start was raised:

But in true Gould/NRL style he contradicts himself later when it comes to changing the season with the usual NRL dangle a carrot which will never happen strategy:

 

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2 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Except that's not what I said at all. Nowhere did I say that because Cameron Smith wouldn't have come, that it means no player would want to come. That's a ridiculous thought process and one that I didn't have. You've just completely made it up.

I said that because Cameron Smith said he wouldn't have come, it makes me think that it's very possible that there are some current players who will feel the same. I didn't say ALL of them, I said SOME. And judging by what another poster said (mentioning a Samoan player not wanting to come), it would appear that I was correct with my suspicions.

Errr.....no, you're not. I'm sure some do and some don't. End of the day, the NRL didn't consult players over the decision and are not letting players choose what to do of their own free will.

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10 minutes ago, Damien said:

And what about if it cant take place next year?

That's a decision that the world cup organisers are currently thinking through. But if Australia and NZ have player welfare concerns (and I appreciate that you'll probably say they shouldn't have) regarding a WC in 2021, the fact that the world cup cannot be moved to next year, is just tough. You can't expect them to ignore those concerns just so that the world cup can go ahead. What do you expect them to say to their players etc. - we don't think it's safe, but we're sending you because financially it's not possible to move the world cup back a year.

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

There is absolutely no guarantee that Australia and NZ will come next year either.

While the Covid situation is still an ongoing concern, nothing can be guaranteed.

But providing that there are no Covid issues, and if Australia and New Zealand sign up to come here for a World Cup in 2022, I don't understand on what basis anyone would question their intentions?

You're talking as though these aren't two teams that between them have been over to the UK virtually ever year for the past 30 years. It's just utterly bizarre to me the way that they're being spoken about.

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  • John Drake changed the title to Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)
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