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Are you worried about attendances?


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3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

 

I think one of the worst bits of marketing in the last few years was ‘every minute matters’ what that did was play down the fact that going to a RL match can and often is still highly entertaining even if it’s a ‘dead rubber’ and that’s down to the nature of the game and the althetes involved, it’s not a game that can be played half hearted.

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

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I think it's really hard to tell what's going on right now, for us looking in and for clubs in all sports. My football team, QPR, had pre-season friendlies with Man Utd and Leicester, neither of which sold out to the surprise of the club. Yesterday's first game of the regular season, however, against Millwall did sell out. As on here there are various theories; older fans not wanting to risk it, people with reduced incomes, getting out of the habit, the usual suggestions. 

I think, as others have said, it's best for the clubs to ride out the remainder of this season as best they can and then really go for it in the new year.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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On 07/08/2021 at 23:57, Johnoco said:

Apart from 1911 when Bradford City won the FA Cup and were getting attendances that far eclipsed their previous life as Manningham?
Or perhaps the Huddersfield Town all conquering team of the 1920’s?

So not exactly true really. 

So that'll be well into the 20th century then will it not?

🙄

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5 hours ago, Johnoco said:

1911 or 1920 is not well into the 20th century, it's more or less at the start.

There's a lot of soccer clubs north of Barnsley which were formed between 1900 and 1910.

Rugby was the dominant code untill then.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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On 08/08/2021 at 12:04, Dave T said:

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

Yup - I travel over 2 hours each way to see Broncos as something to do and to catch up with people I take. I have gone to meet family and work colleagues - none of whom are league fans but enjoy a living event.

I knew we would get hammered yesterday and it made no difference to me attending. In fact, the novelty of a French side made it more enticing. 

Similarly I go to the darts every new year and never watch a game.

Edited by Leonard
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47 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Yup - I travel over 2 hours each way to see Broncos as something to do and to catch up with people I take. I have gone to meet family and work colleagues - none of whom are league fans but enjoy a living event.

I knew we would get hammered yesterday and it made no difference to me attending. In fact, the novelty of a French side made it more enticing. 

Similarly I go to the darts every new year and never watch a game.

What was the crowd like yesterday Leonard? 

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Football comparison (based on one weekend so far too early but here for reference).

This weekend average (2019/20 season average)

Championship: 16,294 (18,585)

League One: 11,200 (8,576)

League Two: 4,414 (4,687)

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Football comparison (based on one weekend so far too early but here for reference).

This weekend average (2019/20 season average)

Championship: 16,294 (18,585)

League One: 11,200 (8,576)

League Two: 4,414 (4,687)

Yeah bit early to aggregate but we´re a League 1 level sport. Similar budgets for most teams too but that´s why internationals need to be are target for extra cash. 

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10 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Football comparison (based on one weekend so far too early but here for reference).

This weekend average (2019/20 season average)

Championship: 16,294 (18,585)

League One: 11,200 (8,576)

League Two: 4,414 (4,687)

Yes obviously too early as much depends on which clubs are at home on a given weekend. The figures in two months will be interesting - the novelty will have maybe worn off a bit, and those weekly variations will have levelled off

FWIW those first weekend figures don't give an impression of any lack of demand in football - so why are RL fans more reluctant? Is it the ageing fan base being more cautious? If that's even close to being the case, it shows that we desperately need to attract more younger people.

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On 26/07/2021 at 17:39, Tommygilf said:

5.5k at Wigan v Wakefield

10.5k at Leeds v Salford

No matter how you spin it this isn't the packed out return to attendances the sport was looking for. The real question that needs answering quickly is why?

Is it covid related attendance hesitancy? Possibly for some, but I don't know if anyone else went out this weekend but it certainly didn't seem quiet in the city centre I was in. If there is hesitancy, then it is impacting RL fan demographies more acutely - that they are quite narrow and leaves the sport vulnerable to this sort of acute problem is another issue.

More worryingly, is it that there is just too much better competition for people's money? The sport has been struggling for relevance before Covid, and has hardly taken many actions to rectify that since. Its also been highly reliant on Season Ticket attendees, whose numbers presumably have been dented as a result of Covid. 

Whilst many have struggled through Covid, lots have saved money too. There is clearly an appetite for leisure and entertainment. But perhaps in such a congested market RL isn't cutting through - and doesn't have the resources to do so. 17 or so months away from the grounds, out of the habit, with plenty of problems leaving fans disillusioned and a hell of a lot of competition for people's time and money - its not the ideal environment.

Perhaps it will get better...

How many clubs do match day awareness schemes where they make as many people as possible in their area aware when they are at home who they are playing and the Kick off time. For argument sake the Wakey v Wovles is the only Super League game taking place on Sunday so in this case what are Wakey doing to promote it and letting as many people in the area as possible about the game?

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2 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Yes obviously too early as much depends on which clubs are at home on a given weekend. The figures in two months will be interesting - the novelty will have maybe worn off a bit, and those weekly variations will have levelled off

FWIW those first weekend figures don't give an impression of any lack of demand in football - so why are RL fans more reluctant? Is it the ageing fan base being more cautious? If that's even close to being the case, it shows that we desperately need to attract more younger people.

Season tickets but we have a prob.  Widnes said they have less than 300 junior season tickets.  This is terrifying. 

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On 08/08/2021 at 13:04, Dave T said:

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

This is true but also why big stadiums hurt.  How can huddersfield create an atmosphere in the box? 

 

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On 08/08/2021 at 12:04, Dave T said:

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

I think as fans we are often quite insecure about our sport and overthink things. We are always trying to spread the word and encourage new fans. We are always trying to justify our view of how good the game is. I think that is all a result of all the rubbish and discrimination the sport has faced over the years. A Catholic guilt type affliction.

I know when I take friends who are not particularly RL fans to games I am always thinking I hope its a good game, I hope they enjoy it. I don't think that is really the case when I get dragged to different sporting events.

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9 hours ago, Damien said:

I think as fans we are often quite insecure about our sport and overthink things. We are always trying to spread the word and encourage new fans. We are always trying to justify our view of how good the game is. I think that is all a result of all the rubbish and discrimination the sport has faced over the years. A Catholic guilt type affliction.

I know when I take friends who are not particularly RL fans to games I am always thinking I hope its a good game, I hope they enjoy it. I don't think that is really the case when I get dragged to different sporting events.

I think this is right.

And I think this also goes back to the constant focus on the 80m being the best sport in the world. Instead of being the best event. 

Many of my best sport experiences have little to do with the actual action on the pitch. And I say that as somebody who has a huge interest in the actual sport. 

Edited by Dave T
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18 minutes ago, meast said:

Would you say we are still at the start of the 21st century or well into it bearing in mind it's 21 years or a generation since the turn of the century?

It’s not ‘well into it’ either way. In 100 years time do you think they will say smartphones came into use ‘well into the 21st century?’? 
 

Fact is, soccer took a hold very quickly in West Yorkshire and grew like crazy. Obviously the rugby schism didn’t help matters but that’s what happened. 

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10 hours ago, Damien said:

I think as fans we are often quite insecure about our sport and overthink things. We are always trying to spread the word and encourage new fans. We are always trying to justify our view of how good the game is. I think that is all a result of all the rubbish and discrimination the sport has faced over the years. A Catholic guilt type affliction.

I know when I take friends who are not particularly RL fans to games I am always thinking I hope its a good game, I hope they enjoy it. I don't think that is really the case when I get dragged to different sporting events.

I agree with you but a poor game can put people off unfortunately. My daughter used to be a cheerleader at the Bulls along with her cousin. I used to drive them to practice and saw one of her uncles picking her cousin up and got chatting with him about the upcoming game they were going to be at. He is a Gaelic football fan general GAA supporter but I told him to come along as RL was fantastic and it would be a good matchday experience etc etc. He came along with us….and Bradford had by that point dropped all the pre game parades etc etc so there was no sort of event feel and they also promptly lost in a very boring game. Typical 😆😆

He never asked about going again strangely. 😁

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13 hours ago, The Future is League said:

How many clubs do match day awareness schemes where they make as many people as possible in their area aware when they are at home who they are playing and the Kick off time. For argument sake the Wakey v Wovles is the only Super League game taking place on Sunday so in this case what are Wakey doing to promote it and letting as many people in the area as possible about the game?

The problem is that there is a big difference between advertising and marketing, and I think people focus heavily on the first one and not enough on the second. 

The sport can't advertise it's way out of its problems. Yes, it's necessarily to tell people who we are, when we're playing and all of that, but that in itself doesn't make the product and the experience we offer more attractive to the sorts of people the sport wants and/or needs to reach. 

There can't be many people in Huddersfield who don't know who the Giants are - awareness really shouldn't be a problem for any of our clubs, especially given the small communities that many are active in. What I think is lacking is that message of 'why' they should attend a Giants game and what a Giants game can offer them - in terms of a form of entertainment but also in terms of an experience that caters to them and one that they can enjoy. 

Put it another way - vegans and vegetarians knew what a Greggs sausage roll was. No amount of advertising or awareness was going to change the fact that vegans and vegetarians (a growing group of people) didn't want to eat at Greggs. What did get vegans and vegetarians eating at Greggs was offering something that vegans and vegetarians wanted. That's the thing that RL is struggling with. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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5 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The problem is that there is a big difference between advertising and marketing, and I think people focus heavily on the first one and not enough on the second. 

The sport can't advertise it's way out of its problems. Yes, it's necessarily to tell people who we are, when we're playing and all of that, but that in itself doesn't make the product and the experience we offer more attractive to the sorts of people the sport wants and/or needs to reach. 

There can't be many people in Huddersfield who don't know who the Giants are - awareness really shouldn't be a problem for any of our clubs, especially given the small communities that many are active in. What I think is lacking is that message of 'why' they should attend a Giants game and what a Giants game can offer them - in terms of a form of entertainment but also in terms of an experience that caters to them and one that they can enjoy. 

Put it another way - vegans and vegetarians knew what a Greggs sausage roll was. No amount of advertising or awareness was going to change the fact that vegans and vegetarians (a growing group of people) didn't want to eat at Greggs. What did get vegans and vegetarians eating at Greggs was offering something that vegans and vegetarians wanted. That's the thing that RL is struggling with. 

I'm sure there are a majority of people in towns and cities aware they have a Rugby League club, but how many are aware of when they playing at home and against who and the kick off time. Something needs to be done to get more people watching the game

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50 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I'm sure there are a majority of people in towns and cities aware they have a Rugby League club, but how many are aware of when they playing at home and against who and the kick off time. Something needs to be done to get more people watching the game

No disagreement there.

But the "something that needs to be done" is more than simply saying "we're playing Wakefield on Sunday at 3pm". That's the easy (and cheaper) advertising bit. 

The important bit is convincing people that watching Huddersfield play Wakefield is the thing that they want to be doing at 3pm on Sunday. That's the harder marketing bit. 

My point is that people think that this problem can be solved by the easy, cheap bit. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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13 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In the old days in The Beano or Dandy, a bill sticker would put up a poster saying ‘Town v City Saturday, KO 3pm’ or ‘Rovers v Rangers’

If only it was like that now.

 

The days of sticking a poster in a pub or shop window are long gone. The world has moved on, but the game hasn't. 

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49 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In the old days in The Beano or Dandy, a bill sticker would put up a poster saying ‘Town v City Saturday, KO 3pm’ or ‘Rovers v Rangers’

If only it was like that now.

 

Usually Rovers v Rangers.  Or possibly City v United.  I don't remember Town v City".

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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