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Autumn Internationals


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5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're correct. Just checked online and Featherstone is classed as a town and not a village. This new information therefore obviously invalidates every point I made. 

Glad I could help and that I have so much credibility you had to check on the internet.

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6 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Jamaica are a genuine team, they even have a domestic league and every player will qualify for them under virtually the International qualification rules as every other sport uses. 

Why do so called Rugby League fans try to talk down and rubbish an International fixture as soon as it’s announced. Sad really, it’s like they don’t want the sport to be successful. 

I know they have a league, I know some of their players quite well. I wonder how many will be flown over for this fixture? 

It may have escaped you but I didn’t start moaning and rubbishing this fixture, you and the other internet heroes did at the suggestion of the venue. 

RL has far bigger problems than where Scotland play Jamaica in a friendly. It’s a largely meaningless game but good that they’re playing. The best thing about this being in Fev is your predictable incel reaction.

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5 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I know they have a league, I know some of their players quite well. I wonder how many will be flown over for this fixture? 

It may have escaped you but I didn’t start moaning and rubbishing this fixture, you and the other internet heroes did at the suggestion of the venue. 

RL has far bigger problems than where Scotland play Jamaica in a friendly. It’s a largely meaningless game but good that they’re playing. The best thing about this being in Fev is your predictable incel reaction.

You just know if it had been announced ( if it has yet ) as being at Headingley and we get 2,000 on the same posters would be criticising the RFL ( is it their responsibility for non England/GB ) for having it at too big a venue 🤔

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23 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You just know if it had been announced ( if it has yet ) as being at Headingley and we get 2,000 on the same posters would be criticising the RFL ( is it their responsibility for non England/GB ) for having it at too big a venue 🤔

Probably. It’s amusing how much impact people think a last minute friendly between Scotland and Jamaica will have on the game. Thousands of Scottish and Jamaican fans crying into their breakfast because it’s not in Leeds.

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18 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

Ugh, the old chestnut of Featherstone being a tiny village is so boring and tiresome. 

Maybe the reality of the situation is Featherstone regularly hosts Rugby matches for the community, has the right facilities for this type of fixture and maybe would get a full house - which would look good on TV (if on tv). 

No idea if it's the best as I don't know what venues are available.

I don't think Ashton Goulding, Dale Ferguson, Danny Addy, Callum Mcelland would have any problems playing there. 

On TV?  An International played in tiny Featherstone?  Just what image of the game do you think that would give outsiders???

8 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

... every player will qualify for them under virtually the International qualification rules as every other sport uses.

That's not true.  As I've shown previously in another thread about that subject, most sports use citizenship as the basis for qualification and players either have to be citizens or be eligible for citizenship to be selected.  As it happens some of the heritage Jamaicans would have Jamaican nationality by birthright under Jamaican law so they're all eligible to claim Jamaican citizenship.

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1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Probably. It’s amusing how much impact people think a last minute friendly between Scotland and Jamaica will have on the game. Thousands of Scottish and Jamaican fans crying into their breakfast because it’s not in Leeds.

Everybody knows that putting on a half baked contest in a hurry in Featherstone will do nothing for anyone.

But, as I said in my first response, it means we as a sport can do the absolute minimum possible and still put a tick in a box saying, "We tried, honest, but nobody was interested".

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55 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Everybody knows that putting on a half baked contest in a hurry in Featherstone will do nothing for anyone.

But, as I said in my first response, it means we as a sport can do the absolute minimum possible and still put a tick in a box saying, "We tried, honest, but nobody was interested".

It gives the teams a fixture, which is something. Hardly ideal by any stretch but neither are the circumstances and we don’t know the background to the decision. I don’t know if ‘we as a sport’ are putting that much stock on the outcome of Scotland v Jamaica, I’m more interested in what happens for the England v France game. The Jamaica game has a very narrow range to make a minor impact on international RL development. You could play it at Murrayfield and it would still be a minor event. No amount of anecdotes on an Internet forum about Jamaican mates wanting an event will change that. The event was/will be the World Cup. That won’t be played at POR.

In any case, any internationals put on this autumn were bound to be a bit of a hodge podge, not that it isn’t always that way but at least they have an excuse this time and are trying to put something on. 

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

On TV?  An International played in tiny Featherstone?  Just what image of the game do you think that would give outsiders???

That's not true.  As I've shown previously in another thread about that subject, most sports use citizenship as the basis for qualification and players either have to be citizens or be eligible for citizenship to be selected.  As it happens some of the heritage Jamaicans would have Jamaican nationality by birthright under Jamaican law so they're all eligible to claim Jamaican citizenship.

The qualification rules in football (listed below) sound rather similar to ours as do Rugby Union, Rugby League fans need to just get over it. 

shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

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59 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The qualification rules in football (listed below) sound rather similar to ours as do Rugby Union, Rugby League fans need to just get over it. 

shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

Soccer and RU are just two of the many team sports which have Internationals.  That's a far cry from "every other sport".  The rest generally use citizenship and they also don't allow players to change from one country to another.

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21 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Soccer and RU are just two of the many team sports which have Internationals.  That's a far cry from "every other sport".  The rest generally use citizenship and they also don't allow players to change from one country to another.

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

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19 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

Football, RU and cricket (as examples) are now far stricter on players moving between countries - even between top level and non top level.

Part of the reason we come across so badly is that the gaps between matches are so long and we never know when the next game is going to be so there are several players who will only be able to play internationals if they leave their options open.

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15 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

So you don't think anyone watches the sports which are in the Olympics at International level eh?  What planet do you live on?

The fact is that even in those other sports which you mentioned, teams only ever have a few heritage players augmenting a lineup primarily comprised of domestically-produced players.  RL is unique (and not in a good way) in having whole teams made up entirely of heritage players and that's why those teams get labelled as fake or tin pot teams.  Unfortunately for those players whom you listed there, Jamaica is in that category.  I'd respect those players appearing for Jamaica far more if they legitimized themselves by taking out Jamaican citizenship.

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The heritage issue, as demonstrated by a number of posters in terms of other sports, is the least of our issues.

To be taken seriously as an international sport we need to at the very least:

1) Play internationals. Not just a few at the end of season but a proper 3/4 games in the middle too. No reason why we can’t do this, play less club games and offer an attractive Northern Hemisphere international tournament to broadcasters.

England should be playing 6 or 7 games minimum a year (as should every nation) like most major sports. It really isn’t a lot to ask.

2) Play internationals in each nation. Scotland should play in Scotland (not Featherstone or anywhere else if at ‘home’).

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16 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

In fact what I said is true.  That account doesn't break out the numbers of foreign-born players who qualify by heritage, it lumps them and other players who qualify by residency in together.

It states that 144 foreign-born players played in the 2019 RUWC, a tournament in which 20 teams named rosters of 31 players each which gives 620 players total.  144 is less than 1/4 of 620, so the great majority of players in RU national teams are homegrown.

Re the Six Nations, only Scotland had a number of foreign-born players which was even close to more than half of 31, but they used a lot more than just 31 players in that tournament as you can see in Wikipedia's list of the Scottish players in the tournament.  Their main roster was 35 players but they called up 18 others during the tournament so altogether they used 53 players.  As they used 18 heritage players, simple math shows that homegrown players outnumbered their heritage contingent 30-18 (the other five all qualified by residency).  QED

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9 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

The heritage issue, as demonstrated by a number of posters in terms of other sports, is the least of our issues.

To be taken seriously as an international sport we need to at the very least:

1) Play internationals. Not just a few at the end of season but a proper 3/4 games in the middle too. No reason why we can’t do this, play less club games and offer an attractive Northern Hemisphere international tournament to broadcasters.

England should be playing 6 or 7 games minimum a year (as should every nation) like most major sports. It really isn’t a lot to ask.

2) Play internationals in each nation. Scotland should play in Scotland (not Featherstone or anywhere else if at ‘home’).

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

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2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

Yes. Next?

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12 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

First you said other sports only ever use a few heritage players, that was proved false with Scotland RU having over 20 heritage players in their squad.

Now it’s that some RL countries have solely heritage players. If Rugby League wasn’t played In countries like Jamaica and Scotland it could be claimed to be an issue, but they both have domestic competitions, and I expect players who’ve come from those competitions to be within the squad. But whether they are or not isn’t relevant.

International sides pick the strongest squad available to them regardless of whether the players qualify through birthplace or through heritage and regardless of whether they play in the domestic competition or overseas, that’s the way it is, the way it should be and people need to get over it.

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We can all pontificate endlessly about what the International calendar should be , but this thread is about the internationals being planned at short notice at the end of this season 

To me it needs a balance , yes I'd like to see England play France , if it's in France I might consider going , covid rules depending , hopefully we'll see all the home nations and a Jamaica team play at least one , preferably two games 

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We can all pontificate endlessly about what the International calendar should be , but this thread is about the internationals being planned at short notice at the end of this season 

To me it needs a balance , yes I'd like to see England play France , if it's in France I might consider going , covid rules depending , hopefully we'll see all the home nations and a Jamaica team play at least one , preferably two games 

These internationals will take place 3 months from the World Cup being cancelled. That isn't what I'd call short notice. It is ample time for a competition between basically all Super League/Championship players.

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As well as autumn internationals how about a county game for Cumbria to support development in a stronghold, would like to see a pack with Amor,Moore,Singleton,Donaldson, Maher and Knowles run out on home turf

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5 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

First you said other sports only ever use a few heritage players, that was proved false with Scotland RU having over 20 heritage players in their squad.

Now it’s that some RL countries have solely heritage players. If Rugby League wasn’t played In countries like Jamaica and Scotland it could be claimed to be an issue, but they both have domestic competitions, and I expect players who’ve come from those competitions to be within the squad. But whether they are or not isn’t relevant.

International sides pick the strongest squad available to them regardless of whether the players qualify through birthplace or through heritage and regardless of whether they play in the domestic competition or overseas, that’s the way it is, the way it should be and people need to get over it.

Other sports do use just a few heritage players, the Scotland RU team is the only exception to that.  They don't have "over 20 heritage players", 5 of their 23 foreign-born players qualified by residence which leaves 18 out of the 53 players they used in the Six Nations which is only 1/3.

RL is unique in having the embarrassing situation of several national teams being more or less full of heritage players because otherwise those countries couldn't field a team which is anywhere near competitive.

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