George Hotel Museum not going ahead (Merged Threads)

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m sure they can run one of the RFL departments out of the George. HR for example. Head office for the Development management team. Are there any left?

Who would pay for a permanent hotel room?

This is actually the issue - The George is too small to accommodate both a hotel and a museum. RL Cares can kick up all the fuss that they like but if it cannot be made into a going concern them the RL museum may be consigned to the dustbin.

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Who would pay for a permanent hotel room?

This is actually the issue - The George is too small to accommodate both a hotel and a museum. RL Cares can kick up all the fuss that they like but if it cannot be made into a going concern them the RL museum may be consigned to the dustbin.

That's fine, but Huddersfield (Kirklees Council) won a bidding process on certain promises. If they now can't be met then it should be back to bidding.

[JohnM]

Is there any element of Lottery funding in this? If so, what? If not, why not?

[gingerjon]

44 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Is there any element of Lottery funding in this? If so, what? If not, why not?

There was about ten years ago to keep the museum going - £100,000 around 2012. I've just checked the award of the museum to Kirklees Council talks about a future bid to the National Lottery Heritage Fund but I can't see anything to say that has been submitted. It would be hard to do so if they weren't clear on where the Museum was going to be.

[JohnM]

Thanks GJ.  If RL Cares were to choose to try to build or rent a building for the museum with them at the head, in complete project charge, with no dependencies on others , other than contractors, what might the position be? 

For example, i assume that a new build on land close to Headingly or Wigan, or Warrington (other locations are available?)  as HQ premises for Rugby League Cares, with medical and rehab facilities etc, encompassing the museum, would need a complete plan in place with much commited funding, before lottery funding could be applied for. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Thanks GJ.  If RL Cares were to choose to try to build or rent a building for the museum with them at the head, in complete project charge, with no dependencies on others , other than contractors, what might the position be? 

For example, i assume that a new build on land close to Headingly or Wigan, or Warrington (other locations are available?)  as HQ premises for Rugby League Cares, with medical and rehab facilities etc, encompassing the museum, would need a complete plan in place with much commited funding, before lottery funding could be applied for. 

Heritage funding is very much not my speciality but, obviously, the more 'solid' you are in as many areas then the better. If you're looking for support for a physical museum and you aren't clear where that will be then I think it's highly unlikely you'd get support from them. You would really need to have most things in place with the lottery support being the finishing touches. (Especially given that, really, this is the continuation of existing work not something completely new where some 'details TBD' could be excused.)

[Blind side johnny]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

That's fine, but Huddersfield (Kirklees Council) won a bidding process on certain promises. If they now can't be met then it should be back to bidding.

I agree.

[daz39]

On 17/11/2021 at 17:03, Eddie said:

I must admit I’ve never been in Huddersfield Library, and I may be underestimating it’s magnificence, but I assume putting the National RL museum in it would be rather tin pot. 

Huddersfield library and art gallery is a wonderful 3 storey art deco building that houses over 700 paintings, last time i visited there was at least half a floor not being used, there's absolutely plenty of space to house a museum, it's a magnificent building in a great location.

 

[M j M]

Just now, daz39 said:

Huddersfield library and art gallery is a wonderful 3 storey art deco building that houses over 700 paintings, last time i visited there was at least half a floor not being used, there's absolutely plenty of space to house a museum, it's a magnificent building in a great location.

 

Beautiful building indeed.

But not the place for the Rugby League museum.

 

[daz39]

On 17/11/2021 at 22:58, Scubby said:

This, it is a no brainer FFS! A festival outside in the main square every August 29th. 

As a lifelong Rugby League fan born and bred in Huddersfield this is what annoys me and others, the fact we have this unique piece of Britsh and world sporting history right here in our town but yet we do nothing to celebrate or promote that fact, apart from the club having 'The birthplace of Rugby League' in small letters on a replica shirt, the town, club nor council have or do anything acknowleding this. 

We should be attracting Rugby League and sports fans from all over to our town to celebrate this history but as long as i've lived in Huddersfield there has been absolutely nothing apart from a little room downstairs with Stevo's personal collection for a few years. We have a wonderful and beautiful town centre to go with this history and we do nothing as a town or club to promote it despite the clib being one of the most successful and famous ones in the sport!!

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, daz39 said:

As a lifelong Rugby League fan born and bred in Huddersfield this is what annoys me and others, the fact we have this unique piece of Britsh and world sporting history right here in our town but yet we do nothing to celebrate or promote that fact, apart from the club having 'The birthplace of Rugby League' in small letters on a replica shirt, the town, club nor council have or do anything acknowleding this. 

We should be attracting Rugby League and sports fans from all over to our town to celebrate this history but as long as i've lived in Huddersfield there has been absolutely nothing apart from a little room downstairs with Stevo's personal collection for a few years. We have a wonderful and beautiful town centre to go with this history and we do nothing as a town or club to promote it despite the clib being one of the most successful and famous ones in the sport!!

Totally agree. I live outside the UK. When we were heading to Manchester we changed at Huddersfield and while we were waiting I took my kids outside to show them the George Hotel. It is that convenient and the square is actually very picturesque and authentic. It is the bloody birthplace of the game FFS - it should be a pilgrimage for any fan and a stop off for sports fans. 

It could put Huddersfield on the map. It is literally 100 yards from the station and still look magnificent. Build it and they will come - sports fans as well as RL fans.

[daz39]

On 21/11/2021 at 09:57, Sports Prophet said:

Why doesn’t the RFL just take over the George and use it as one of their main offices and then manage the museum while there?

Many people in Huddersfield and Rugby League have been trying to get this to happen for years, unfortunately for Huddersfield it isn't a big city and no-one wants to go anywhere these days but a big city, businesses, tourists, workers etc.

[daz39]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Totally agree. I live outside the UK. When we were heading to Manchester we changed at Huddersfield and while we were waiting I took my kids outside to show them the George Hotel. It is that convenient and the square is actually very picturesque and authentic. It is the bloody birthplace of the game FFS - it should be a pilgrimage for any fan and a stop off for sports fans. 

It could put Huddersfield on the map. It is literally 100 yards from the station and still look magnificent. Build it and they will come - sports fans as well as RL fans.

Jeremy Clarkson once described St Georges Square as 'Huddersfield's front room, and one of the finest front rooms in the country'.

We have one of the largest number of listed buildings in the UK and some amazing architecture in our town centre yet no-one knows becuase it's not Leeds or Manchester. Huddersfield could and should be a marketing dream to the club/town/council but we are seen as nothing but a waste of land between Leeds and Manchester (as are most places between them these days).

[daz39]

47 minutes ago, M j M said:

Beautiful building indeed.

But not the place for the Rugby League museum.

 

Why?

[M j M]

18 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Why?

Because the whole point, the only real USP Huddersfield had (sorry to say this) was the George, the game's birthplace right next to the railway station.

[Scubby]

17 minutes ago, M j M said:

Because the whole point, the only real USP Huddersfield had (sorry to say this) was the George, the game's birthplace right next to the railway station.

It is not a small town, it is the birthplace of RL. It has tens of thousands of football and RL fans pouring in and out of the station 12 months a year, and it is in a scenic square literally 100 yards from a mainline station. It is hardly Gretna Green

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, daz39 said:

Jeremy Clarkson once described St Georges Square as 'Huddersfield's front room, and one of the finest front rooms in the country'.

We have one of the largest number of listed buildings in the UK and some amazing architecture in our town centre yet no-one knows becuase it's not Leeds or Manchester. Huddersfield could and should be a marketing dream to the club/town/council but we are seen as nothing but a waste of land between Leeds and Manchester (as are most places between them these days).

Surprises me. I always thought the place was a dump.

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, daz39 said:

Jeremy Clarkson once described St Georges Square as 'Huddersfield's front room, and one of the finest front rooms in the country'.

We have one of the largest number of listed buildings in the UK and some amazing architecture in our town centre yet no-one knows becuase it's not Leeds or Manchester. Huddersfield could and should be a marketing dream to the club/town/council but we are seen as nothing but a waste of land between Leeds and Manchester (as are most places between them these days).

Good to see you promoting Huddersfield and I have no doubt I am missing the aspects you mention.

Unfortunately The only time I go thorough is when the M62 is blocked and I have time to divert through Huddersfield.  Following the signs to get towards Manchester when I normally crawling along and not seeing the best of the city.

Of course the other time is going to a game and again probably not seeing the best side of the City.

I used to go to a Tailor in Huddersfield many years ago to have my suits made... 

Sounds like I'll need to make a better effort to see more of Huddersfield in order to change my perceptions.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

22 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Heritage funding is very much not my speciality but, obviously, the more 'solid' you are in as many areas then the better. If you're looking for support for a physical museum and you aren't clear where that will be then I think it's highly unlikely you'd get support from them. You would really need to have most things in place with the lottery support being the finishing touches. (Especially given that, really, this is the continuation of existing work not something completely new where some 'details TBD' could be excused.)

Conversely, gingerjon, I do have experience of seeking lottery (and other funding sources') money, but not usually at this scale -at least not in one chunk.  However, I sit on the project steering group for a church tourism project, one element of which could involve capital costs with a value of circa £150k.  What i do know is that, even when your plans are still imprecise, you start to engage in conversation with the likes of the Heritage Fund (incidentally, they have dropped 'Lottery' from the middle of their working title) 

The reason is essentially threefold.  First, it makes them aware of your plans, so if they might include a formal funding request some way down the line, the funders have not been taken by surprise by a big bid, as it were.  Second, you get an early feel for whether they are likely to be minded to offer funding support, or whether you are potentially wasting your time and theirs.  And thirdly, if the dialogue goes well, it helps them to influence your final proposal, which is good as long as it doesn't pull you away from what you actually want to do.

There are, of course, hundreds of foundations - many charities themselves - which exist specifically to offer grants to worthy (from their perspective) projects.  The 400 or so members of the Association of Charitable Foundations, for instance, give out collectively in grants, about £2.5 billion per annum.  You just have to do your homework to target the right ones.

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Conversely, gingerjon, I do have experience of seeking lottery (and other funding sources') money, but not usually at this scale -at least not in one chunk.  However, I sit on the project steering group for a church tourism project, one element of which could involve capital costs with a value of circa £150k.  What i do know is that, even when your plans are still imprecise, you start to engage in conversation with the likes of the Heritage Fund (incidentally, they have dropped 'Lottery' from the middle of their working title) 

The reason is essentially threefold.  First, it makes them aware of your plans, so if they might include a formal funding request some way down the line, the funders have not been taken by surprise by a big bid, as it were.  Second, you get an early feel for whether they are likely to be minded to offer funding support, or whether you are potentially wasting your time and theirs.  And thirdly, if the dialogue goes well, it helps them to influence your final proposal, which is good as long as it doesn't pull you away from what you actually want to do.

There are, of course, hundreds of foundations - many charities themselves - which exist specifically to offer grants to worthy (from their perspective) projects.  The 400 or so members of the Association of Charitable Foundations, for instance, give out collectively in grants, about £2.5 billion per annum.  You just have to do your homework to target the right ones.

Recent experience - not Heritage Fund but other lottery providers - seems to be that there is a lot less opportunity to talk through in advance but that the actual stage one application covers that. But my overarching point is that you'll be in a lot stronger position the clearer you are about what you're doing. And if you're a physical museum then knowing which building you're going to be in will be part of that.

[daz39]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Surprises me. I always thought the place was a dump.

It is if you read the papers or only see the buildings and shop fronts at ground level, go to Huddersfield on the train, come out of the station, turn around and have your breath taken way by the amazing station frontage, delight at the square it faces, explore the town and look up at some of the amazing architecture, wander round and into Byram arcade, It's a wonderful little place with 3 floors full of many delightful independent shops/bars etc, King street has an array of bars/eateries, take in a show at the Lawrence Batley theatre or spectacular town hall, have a drink in one of the many fine pubs the town has to offer or a meal on one of the plenty of superb restaurants, have a walk along the canal and you will soon come to another pub to relax or admire a view, visit one of the museums or parks the town has to offer, take a ride or long walk up to castle hill and view the town and surrounding valleys from high and marvel at the stunning views...........Or just see it as a grotty little town full of pound shops/Wetherspoons/Eastern European stores and boarded up shops....that's how people who don't or won't appreciate it's beauty would describe it, the media would describe it as a non descript town between Leeds and Manchester with a good university for those lucky enough to attend it.

[M j M]

The Queensgate Market building in Huddersfield is a magnificent building. They have other ones as well.

But so do most of the other towns in which our sport was nurtured. The key selling point for Huddersfield getting the museum was it would be located in the George Hotel. Change that and suddenly it's not quite as obvious that it should be located there.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Recent experience - not Heritage Fund but other lottery providers - seems to be that there is a lot less opportunity to talk through in advance but that the actual stage one application covers that. But my overarching point is that you'll be in a lot stronger position the clearer you are about what you're doing. And if you're a physical museum then knowing which building you're going to be in will be part of that.

Wholly agree with you.

[Blind side johnny]

9 hours ago, daz39 said:

Huddersfield library and art gallery is a wonderful 3 storey art deco building that houses over 700 paintings, last time i visited there was at least half a floor not being used, there's absolutely plenty of space to house a museum, it's a magnificent building in a great location.

 

And not the venue that they are proposing for the museum. A new gallery and "display space" are being proposed for the redevelopment of the precinct and indoor market.

[Blind side johnny]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Surprises me. I always thought the place was a dump.

AKA a post-industrial Northern town.