Can IMG make Rugby League into a more successful sport?

[Dave T]

38 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

Who's going to relaunch London RL? Broncos at least have an established brand and set up.

Well that is where the game needs to work out if it wants to do it or not. They can create conditions that may make it more attractive to investors. If licensing is to return, offering an investor the opportunity of a London franchise is within our gift. Ultimately we can make that as attractive as we decide - protection, funding levels, support at grassroots etc. 

But it would need private investment, and if that couldn't be sourced, then so be it. 

Just because Broncos are a thing doesn't mean its good enough for SL. 

[Dave T]

29 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Potential..

How does that impact SL?

This is right. I do think people should be clear that they are talking potential rather than making claims of tangible benefits when often they are not there. 

Some of the benefits of initiatives could take a decade, maybe even longer to be recognised, which isn't a problem in itself, but we should be honest about that. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well that is where the game needs to work out if it wants to do it or not. They can create conditions that may make it more attractive to investors. If licensing is to return, offering an investor the opportunity of a London franchise is within our gift. Ultimately we can make that as attractive as we decide - protection, funding levels, support at grassroots etc. 

But it would need private investment, and if that couldn't be sourced, then so be it. 

Just because Broncos are a thing doesn't mean its good enough for SL. 

Where did I say they were good enough for the SL? I'm questioning this idea of a relaunch of London RL. There isn't enough money available to do what you are proposing.

[GUBRATS]

Just now, NW10LDN said:

Where did I say they were good enough for the SL? I'm questioning this idea of a relaunch of London RL. There isn't enough money available to do what you are proposing.

There isn't enough money for any kind of London RL in SL 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

There isn't enough money for any kind of London RL in SL 

Why are you telling me this and not the others? I haven't said otherwise. My point is that at least Hughes is still willing to put some of his money in.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

Where did I say they were good enough for the SL? I'm questioning this idea of a relaunch of London RL. There isn't enough money available to do what you are proposing.

There isn't enough money in the game right now to do anything different. No one has money within the game just hanging around free to spend. 

That's why we need to secure additional funding. 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Would anyone know an IMG 'case study' to look at? Where have they dabbled before and truly added value?

Euroleague basketball is a good place to start as they took that on and developed it. 

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, NW10LDN said:

I wasn't implying that at all. Those solution would certainly help though.

Ok. Apologies, then. They are still point solutions, though. They may be good ideas, and may be part of the outcome. I'd much rather though that IMG spent a lot of time understanding the situation and the problem before deciding the solution.

[MattSantos]

28 minutes ago, RP London said:

Euroleague basketball is a good place to start as they took that on and developed it. 

Lovely. Will take a look at that in the week.

[Damien]

Noticed this:

RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer says there will be no structure changes for the 2023 season as they await recommendations from new partners IMG.

Global marketing company IMG were announced as strategic partners to the RFL and Super League recently on a 12-year deal, to help restructure and re-imagine the sport.

The three-division structure, with promotion and relegation, will remain intact for next season, but key dates won’t be decided until IMG completes its initial fact-finding exercise.

Rimmer told PA: “There will be no changes for 2023. There might be some changes in transition at the end of 2023 but we’ll see how that comes together.

“We’ll do lots of different permutations while we await the outcome of IMG’s consultations.”

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ralph-rimmer-confirms-no-structure-changes-for-2023-season/

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

Noticed this:

RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer says there will be no structure changes for the 2023 season as they await recommendations from new partners IMG.

Global marketing company IMG were announced as strategic partners to the RFL and Super League recently on a 12-year deal, to help restructure and re-imagine the sport.

The three-division structure, with promotion and relegation, will remain intact for next season, but key dates won’t be decided until IMG completes its initial fact-finding exercise.

Rimmer told PA: “There will be no changes for 2023. There might be some changes in transition at the end of 2023 but we’ll see how that comes together.

“We’ll do lots of different permutations while we await the outcome of IMG’s consultations.”

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ralph-rimmer-confirms-no-structure-changes-for-2023-season/

Makes sense. You can't change the structure mid season. Wouldn't be fair on Fev/Leigh.

[M j M]

Even in his most tinpot moment Rimmer wouldn't change the structure of the season teams are currently playing for.

We can only hope that the disastrous idea of 10/10 is also dismissed by IMG as idiotic.

[JohnM]

"until IMG completes its initial fact-finding exercise."

That's the way to do it, rather than deciding the solution then bending the facts to fit.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Noticed this:

RFL chief executive Ralph Rimmer says there will be no structure changes for the 2023 season as they await recommendations from new partners IMG.

Global marketing company IMG were announced as strategic partners to the RFL and Super League recently on a 12-year deal, to help restructure and re-imagine the sport.

The three-division structure, with promotion and relegation, will remain intact for next season, but key dates won’t be decided until IMG completes its initial fact-finding exercise.

Rimmer told PA: “There will be no changes for 2023. There might be some changes in transition at the end of 2023 but we’ll see how that comes together.

“We’ll do lots of different permutations while we await the outcome of IMG’s consultations.”

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ralph-rimmer-confirms-no-structure-changes-for-2023-season/

Appreciate the info but in all fairness it's Ralph if he said good morning to me I'd check my watch. 

[Oxford]

12 hours ago, Jughead said:

I’d be surprised if IMG allow for the big reset of ‘22 to be decided entirely on the pitch, in the same way it wasn’t during the big reset of ‘96. 

No neither do I but if you're top six say, for example, it will be hard to justify placing you in tier two. And I thinking the P&R into tier two may become a non event.

Either way it's a solution for some, very few, and unless the benefits for the game as whole arrive almost immediately, would be a recipe for huge contraction.

There are some that argue there's no point is second guessing what IMG and the RFL/SL will come up with but all that happens then is, it's already too late.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Oxford

[steve oates]

On 04/07/2022 at 18:53, NW10LDN said:

IMG have already indicated where they see future growth coming from. They want (1)more internationals and want to (2) keep both French clubs in the SL. A dedicated TV rights deal for France. 

As for internationals, (1) a Five Nations tournament held mid cycle and regular international tours.

Thank you for pointing out some detail.

(1) Australia's NRL and the New Zealand Kiwis did tour with an element of regularity some years back (don't ask me the attendances) IMG have no power to even get a meeting with them let alone IMG getting them to provide more big internationals. 

(2) IMG can want whatever they want all day, but French TV have been lobbied long enough to provide a significant French TV deal based on the undoubted entertainment value of Catalans and Toulouse. It seems only two clubs in France in SL are not enough to deliver this. What power do IMG have to persuade the French TV companies? In turn how can Superleague provide more French content without lowering the English content??

Thanks for having a crack at the possible details of the deal BTW.....

[steve oates]

On 05/07/2022 at 08:09, RP London said:

Right, one last time because I keep repeating myself and I cant understand how this isn't quite obvious TBH. Especially as it has ALL been said before and you seem to be wilfully ignoring things that IMG have already said they will do. 

There is nothing contradictory between what I said and me agreeing with @Dave T. My initial response was in relation to your (and don't take this as a jibe) ludicrous assertion that a large multinational corporation with expertise in media development and a history of developing sports leagues would take on ANY project just to "manage decline" especially when they only get paid on growth!

I have already given you outlines of where the larger growth could, in my opinion, come from.. any more exact information you will need to pay me a consultancy fee as I have a business to run

OK so IMG have said to the SL and the RFL what they "Will do", so why aren't the SL and RFL accepting both their (and of course your) word, as regards them inevitably growing our games finances etc. and agreeing a paying deal to be paid up front (maybe in stages)now and not on results?

The main issue here is the SL & RFL appear to think that history may repeat itself and IMG as consultants will come into the game, and produce a report full of recommendations for the game to bring in, take a massive cheque for that and off they go. SL & RFL try to implement the recommendations and erm they don't work. So I can see how the SL & RFL are being cautious.

As a businessman man like you, neither of us are as successful as the Chairmen of the 12 Superleague clubs who I assume have listened to what "IMG said they would do" and taken the view "OK do that and if your successful we will pay an agreed percentage of the value of the improvements".  Surely as a businessman yourself you come across loads of people who promise results and back that with examples of their success.

But what these people will never do is show you their examples of their failures where the client still had to pay up. It is therefore safe to say IMG must have suggested an up front contract for a report on how to improve the game, that the SL have rejected and the deal has become you can give it a go and IF you succeed in giving us real value improvements  we will pay you a fair percentage.

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

OK so IMG have said to the SL and the RFL what they "Will do", so why aren't the SL and RFL accepting both their (and of course your) word, as regards them inevitably growing our games finances etc. and agreeing a paying deal to be paid up front (maybe in stages)now and not on results?

The main issue here is the SL & RFL appear to think that history may repeat itself and IMG as consultants will come into the game, and produce a report full of recommendations for the game to bring in, take a massive cheque for that and off they go. SL & RFL try to implement the recommendations and erm they don't work. So I can see how the SL & RFL are being cautious.

As a businessman man like you, neither of us are as successful as the Chairmen of the 12 Superleague clubs who I assume have listened to what "IMG said they would do" and taken the view "OK do that and if your successful we will pay an agreed percentage of the value of the improvements".  Surely as a businessman yourself you come across loads of people who promise results and back that with examples of their success.

But what these people will never do is show you their examples of their failures where the client still had to pay up. It is therefore safe to say IMG must have suggested an up front contract for a report on how to improve the game, that the SL have rejected and the deal has become you can give it a go and IF you succeed in giving us real value improvements  we will pay you a fair percentage.

Have a look at what IMG as a group of companies do, then you will very quickly understand why you don't take a list of recommendations and reports and try to implement it yourself rather than let them get on with it. If you dont see it then I (and probably no one else) cannot help you

For all the rest all your points on % vs fixed cost have been covered many many times.. you dont want to see it and I'm not going over them for the 1,000th time!

Edited July 6, 2022 by RP London

[fighting irish]

7 minutes ago, steve oates said:

OK so IMG have said to the SL and the RFL what they "Will do", so why aren't the SL and RFL accepting both their (and of course your) word, as regards them inevitably growing our games finances etc. and agreeing a paying deal to be paid up front (maybe in stages)now and not on results?

The main issue here is the SL & RFL appear to think that history may repeat itself and IMG as consultants will come into the game, and produce a report full of recommendations for the game to bring in, take a massive cheque for that and off they go. SL & RFL try to implement the recommendations and erm they don't work. So I can see how the SL & RFL are being cautious.

As a businessman man like you, neither of us are as successful as the Chairmen of the 12 Superleague clubs who I assume have listened to what "IMG said they would do" and taken the view "OK do that and if your successful we will pay an agreed percentage of the value of the improvements".  Surely as a businessman yourself you come across loads of people who promise results and back that with examples of their success.

But what these people will never do is show you their examples of their failures where the client still had to pay up. It is therefore safe to say IMG must have suggested an up front contract for a report on how to improve the game, that the SL have rejected and the deal has become you can give it a go and IF you succeed in giving us real value improvements  we will pay you a fair percentage.

If you are the business man you say you are, have you never heard of work been done on a ''payment by results'' basis? 

Or the concept of ''risk reversal'', where the seller, guarantees performance or money back?

Or a ''no money down'' arrangement? 

The willingness to undertake work, on this basis (I've done it myself) is indicative of great self-confidence in the sellers ability to deliver just what he's promising. It also means, he expects ultimately, to be rewarded handsomely for his work.

It is a very compelling argument when the seller shoulders the up-front costs and accepts the risks associated with a payment by results contract.

What kind of business are you in? 

 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

If you are the business man you say you are, have you never heard of work been done on a ''payment by results'' basis? 

Or the concept of ''risk reversal'', where the seller, guarantees performance or money back?

Or a ''no money down'' arrangement? 

The willingness to undertake work, on this basis (I've done it myself) is indicative of great self-confidence in the sellers ability to deliver just what he's promising. It also means, he expects ultimately, to be rewarded handsomely for his work.

It is a very compelling argument when the seller shoulders the up-front costs and accepts the risks associated with a payment by results contract.

What kind of business are you in? 

 

Done it myself on both sides... its a hell of an incentive and works well for both parties in my experience... we launched an entire new part of the business on the back of it and we couldn't have done that without this system in place it has made a massive difference to us, and to the business we worked with who we still work well with now on other projects... Our cash flow is still good and we are earning good money from it, though a proportion goes to them its ,similar to a bank loan in that respect but with all parties incentivised to make it work to its fullest (I want a successful business and they need it to be a success).. I've also done it the other way and we are still making nice money off that too, much more than we could have demanded upfront!

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

Done it myself on both sides... its a hell of an incentive and works well for both parties in my experience... we launched an entire new part of the business on the back of it and we couldn't have done that without this system in place it has made a massive difference to us, and to the business we worked with who we still work well with now on other projects... Our cash flow is still good and we are earning good money from it, though a proportion goes to them its ,similar to a bank loan in that respect but with all parties incentivised to make it work to its fullest (I want a successful business and they need it to be a success).. I've also done it the other way and we are still making nice money off that too, much more than we could have demanded upfront!

It tends to weed out, the charlatans, bull sh.....ers, rogues, scoundrels, hustlers and illywhackers.

Oh yes and tallywhackers too. 

[Oxford]

6 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It tends to weed out, the charlatans, bull sh.....ers, rogues, scoundrels, hustlers and illywhackers.

Oh yes and tallywhackers too. 

I strongly doubt anything could guarantee that, even moderately scallywags and grifters get in between the cracks everywhere.

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, steve oates said:

Thank you for pointing out some detail.

(1) Australia's NRL and the New Zealand Kiwis did tour with an element of regularity some years back (don't ask me the attendances) IMG have no power to even get a meeting with them let alone IMG getting them to provide more big internationals. 

(2) IMG can want whatever they want all day, but French TV have been lobbied long enough to provide a significant French TV deal based on the undoubted entertainment value of Catalans and Toulouse. It seems only two clubs in France in SL are not enough to deliver this. What power do IMG have to persuade the French TV companies? In turn how can Superleague provide more French content without lowering the English content??

Thanks for having a crack at the possible details of the deal BTW.....

In one sense it's not two French clubs though, because Catalans' identity is Catalan rather than French, and they play in a small town to boot.

Plus It's not only a question of how many French clubs are in the league but of where they and the other clubs in the league are located.  Other than Toulouse, what other places with an SL club now has the average French sports follower even heard of, let alone rate as a place where big time major pro sport would be played?

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

It tends to weed out, the charlatans, bull sh.....ers, rogues, scoundrels, hustlers and illywhackers.

Oh yes and tallywhackers too. 

So you work in the double glazing industry too ?

[GUBRATS]

28 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

In one sense it's not two French clubs though, because Catalans' identity is Catalan rather than French, and they play in a small town to boot.

Plus It's not only a question of how many French clubs are in the league but of where they and the other clubs in the league are located.  Other than Toulouse, what other places with an SL club now has the average French sports follower even heard of, let alone rate as a place where big time major pro sport would be played?

So French people haven't heard of Catalan ?