The potential of Sheffield Eagles is enormous

[Tubby]

8 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Parochial would be a better description.

Parochial is often used on here as an insult, but personally, I'm not sure it is.

[Blind side johnny]

31 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Parochial is often used on here as an insult, but personally, I'm not sure it is.

I didn't mean it as an insult, simply an accurate description.

[Tubby]

4 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

I didn't mean it as an insult, simply an accurate description.

Sorry, it did look like that was my insinuation, but it was merely an observation of its general use on this forum. 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just to be clear, Sheffield are by no means currently sustainable. They have one very significant and generous backer without whom they could not continue. This absence of sustainability is true of the majority of Championship clubs.

That's just how sport is these days.  If we only had sustainable clubs, there'd be hardly any games at all.

[Eddie]

37 minutes ago, Griff said:

That's just how sport is these days.  If we only had sustainable clubs, there'd be hardly any games at all.

And always has been tbf. 

[Griff]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

And always has been tbf. 

Maybe not always but certainly for a very long time.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just to be clear, Sheffield are by no means currently sustainable. They have one very significant and generous backer without whom they could not continue. This absence of sustainability is true of the majority of Championship clubs.

My understanding is that they had more than one backer, and that in fairness the only "sustainability" factor that is linked to the backing of the Eagles is the playing budget currently?

[Leyther_Matt]

20 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Ice hockey arenas are anything but warm

I went to see the short-lived ‘Ice Warriors’ filmed at Manchester Arena with my brother who had recently broken his arm. It was so hot in the Arena that it melted the plaster on his cast and he had to go to hospital on the way home to have it re-set! We’d only gone as we used to frequently watch Manchester Storm and one of the players (Hilton Ruggles) was filling in as one of the ‘warriors’. And was rumoured to have had his wicked way with Dani Behr who was presenting the show. The two competing teams were Hull Huskies against Birmingham Blizzard, which tbf could quite easily pass as a League One fixture these days.

I’ve been to the odd game at the new rink in Altrincham (the ‘new’ Storm being quite literally a phoenix of a phoenix club, as the original Storm were replaced by Manchester Phoenix - eat your heart out, Sheffield Eagles!) and it’s bloomin’ freezing in there!

Manchester-Sheffield games used to regularly attract five figure crowds and were as high as 17,000 at one point.

Amazing how much toss you can write while walking home from work with barely a tenuous link to RL

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I went to see the short-lived ‘Ice Warriors’ filmed at Manchester Arena with my brother who had recently broken his arm. It was so hot in the Arena that it melted the plaster on his cast and he had to go to hospital on the way home to have it re-set! We’d only gone as we used to frequently watch Manchester Storm and one of the players (Hilton Ruggles) was filling in as one of the ‘warriors’. And was rumoured to have had his wicked way with Dani Behr who was presenting the show. The two competing teams were Hull Huskies against Birmingham Blizzard, which tbf could quite easily pass as a League One fixture these days.

I’ve been to the odd game at the new rink in Altrincham (the ‘new’ Storm being quite literally a phoenix of a phoenix club, as the original Storm were replaced by Manchester Phoenix - eat your heart out, Sheffield Eagles!) and it’s bloomin’ freezing in there!

Manchester-Sheffield games used to regularly attract five figure crowds and were as high as 17,000 at one point.

Amazing how much toss you can write while walking home from work with barely a tenuous link to RL

Far from “toss’ …interesting stuff. Having spent many hours in hockey arenas in Canada there is a difference between what you might call ‘bespoke’ ice arenas (like altrincham’) and mutipurpose arenas like the Manchester Arena. The former have ice set permanently while the latter either remove the ice or cover it up for the many non ice events. Hockey players tend to complain about the poorer quality of ice in the multipurpose arenas and spectators notice the different temperatures.

Its a great night out at the Phoenix/Storm

[Northern Eel]

On 16/08/2022 at 09:54, RP London said:

I don't know exactly and, of course, it can change depending on what the interest levels are at different places.. but.. 

This year Sheffield Tigers Ru have put an RL side out at under 14 and 15 levels.. these will become 15 and 16 naturally next year with a 13 and 14 team set up potentially. Dodworth have a good side, Dearne Valley do too both of which we have played. It would also be good to get Hillsborough back up.. I believe Forgers are looking at more age groups. 1 or 2 more in and around the city and you have a nice junior set up (olp side of the city would be brillaint but very tough).. it doesn't have to be massive. 

Eagles can work with them, coaching etc but also we've had curtain raisers at the OLP and the players seem to feel part of something. Almost all are wanting to get tickets for bramall Lane for the world cup (and australia v fiji at headingly) and have been going along to eagles during the season. 

That can slowly build towards open age too. Possibly go earlier if the interest is there. 

Add to that some of the stuff in places like Sherwood Wolfhunt (who are a great club from what we have seen, really enjoyed playing them) and Bassetlaw (nice group when I met them at Nottingham but was on a course when we played them away) and you have a wider network "south" of the city to add... 

A group of 8-10 clubs in and around the area would be massive.. it could then link nicely into the Doncaster area.. 

It would be hard work but eagles being back in Sheffield and with the foundation and Andrea working hard to help I think it can build. They have to take the union game into consideration so as not to alienate clubs and players but with sympathy to that and the work and the game could really grow here, and some "home grown" players spotted who are more suited to league than union (I could pick at least 5 from tigers under 14s and 15s who are better suited to league than union). 

The other bit not to forget is the girls game. Union stop the girls playing with the boys at 12 IIRC and there are very few girls teams for the players to go to.. perhaps there could be a chance there too, but that will need eagles going into schools and maybe something to add to the "to do list" once the boys set up is a bit more solid.

As I say it would be hard work and no guarantee of success. 

I read that with interest. Thanks.

I have seen that the Sheffield Tigers attended some of the Midlands festivals and of course some other friendly fixtures, albeit at only the older age-groups. Let's hope that can be expanded further. The older team would certainly not look out of place in the Yorkshire League, but the restraints of being heavily influenced (as I understand it - apologies if incorrect!) by union players means this isn't possible to sustain over the course of the league season. Do you suppose the Eagles have something to tap into here?

Forgers managed a small U10s side this year and it has been good to see them get this up and running. Much more to come, hopefully. Again, is that something Eagles have the resources to support the development of, or is that just wishful thinking?

Obviously, the Hawks appear to be the most active club, with junior and senior teams at most age groups, from what I can see. 

Regarding girls, I recall seeing something about the Eagles Foundation running a girls training session (weekly, perhaps?) recently, but I gather this is not currently with the mind of playing fixtures against other teams? Do you think Sheffield Hawks will be looking at girl's teams anytime soon? Other than Bassetlaw and Bentley, I think we are thin on the ground in South Yorkshire/Midlands?

That's a real skeleton picture for the city, if we are being honest, so there is a huge amount of work to do. Have the Eagles got the resources to support, and to what extent do you feel they value the development of the local player pathway to meet their own needs?

[steve oates]

On 24/05/2022 at 22:17, The Daddy said:

First off, it's great to see Sheffield Eagles playing in front of a crowd in their home city. This is what the club has been missing for many years. Before they 'merged' with Huddersfield, their crowds weren't too bad. They got crowds of up to 8,000 so there is potential there. It will take time to develop the ground to anywhere near SL level but with IMG on board anything is possible, perhaps investment could be sourced to put into the stadium and team. We are talking about a city with a population of nearly 600,000, anything is possible.  

With eight "Likes" this has to be taken seriously (perhaps?) 

You do know that Workington Town once got 17,000 for a game, and that was miles from any City. At that time Town were able to capture the imagination of everyone from miles around. But the problem for Sheffield is that they too "captured the imagination" of several thousand fans during their rise, but lost all but a few hundred, like Town now, in their downfall.

You say "It will take time to develop the ground to anywhere near SL level but with IMG on board anything is possible, perhaps investment could be sourced to put into the stadium and team"

I need to put my McEnroe voice on here and shout "you cannot be serious"

If you are then I suggest you and IMG switch your above plans to Workington...... A proven RL hotbed.........

[steve oates]

On 15/08/2022 at 13:48, Kirmonds pouch said:

What do you mean wind my neck in, what a silly comment, surely it's you who should do that.

Sheffield was and is a failure. It always will be, there simply is no appetite. It's far too close to the RL heartland to compete on players and fans. Look - the two soccer teams are (rubbish?) Sheffield Eagles could win SL five times in a row but it would barely register against one derby game, even one in the third division...

So stop the silly talk and let Sheffield become the club they were always destined to be, a well run semi-pro outfit in the lower leagues pushing the game outside it's heartland to a limited degree. Nothing wrong with that......

Great reality post, Donny have been quietly doing this for nigh on 70 years. 

[RP London]

22 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just to be clear, Sheffield are by no means currently sustainable. They have one very significant and generous backer without whom they could not continue. This absence of sustainability is true of the majority of Championship clubs.

Yes, I was careful not to say that though. Without a home etc it's been difficult to be so and needed someone to back them.. hopefully that can be less of a 'need' going forward and more of a 'nice to have'

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Great reality post, Donny have been quietly doing this for nigh on 70 years. 

Administration 1995, Liquidation 2001, Administration 2009.

But you were saying something about Sheffield?

[RP London]

13 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

I read that with interest. Thanks.

I have seen that the Sheffield Tigers attended some of the Midlands festivals and of course some other friendly fixtures, albeit at only the older age-groups. Let's hope that can be expanded further. The older team would certainly not look out of place in the Yorkshire League, but the restraints of being heavily influenced (as I understand it - apologies if incorrect!) by union players means this isn't possible to sustain over the course of the league season. Do you suppose the Eagles have something to tap into here?

Forgers managed a small U10s side this year and it has been good to see them get this up and running. Much more to come, hopefully. Again, is that something Eagles have the resources to support the development of, or is that just wishful thinking?

Obviously, the Hawks appear to be the most active club, with junior and senior teams at most age groups, from what I can see. 

Regarding girls, I recall seeing something about the Eagles Foundation running a girls training session (weekly, perhaps?) recently, but I gather this is not currently with the mind of playing fixtures against other teams? Do you think Sheffield Hawks will be looking at girl's teams anytime soon? Other than Bassetlaw and Bentley, I think we are thin on the ground in South Yorkshire/Midlands?

That's a real skeleton picture for the city, if we are being honest, so there is a huge amount of work to do. Have the Eagles got the resources to support, and to what extent do you feel they value the development of the local player pathway to meet their own needs?

Yes tigers is heavily reliant on union players and we started with the ages we did as they seemed the best in terms of adaptability and learning a new sport. I think most teams are reliant on union players to be honest and its a case of planning around that to make it more sustainable. But its capturing the interest IMHO. 

I've spoken to Andrea at eagles I'm the past and it's all in their long term thinking. I think they will help more and things are being put in place, it's early days for the development angle there. 

I do feel, for the first time in a long time, that eagles have their eye on the junior angle and actually have some people and clubs that are open to this (union and league). With support from Eagles I do believe there is more to come which would be great but as you say its very skeleton at the moment.. 

[steve oates]

22 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Just to be clear, Sheffield are by no means currently sustainable. They have one very significant and generous backer without whom they could not continue. This absence of sustainability is true of the majority of Championship clubs.

Including Newcastle of course. I do however find that along the M62 there are nearly always new backers who will come in and take over, outside of the heartlands as you say that can easily be the end. 

[Northern Eel]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

Yes tigers is heavily reliant on union players and we started with the ages we did as they seemed the best in terms of adaptability and learning a new sport. I think most teams are reliant on union players to be honest and its a case of planning around that to make it more sustainable. But its capturing the interest IMHO. 

I've spoken to Andrea at eagles I'm the past and it's all in their long term thinking. I think they will help more and things are being put in place, it's early days for the development angle there. 

I do feel, for the first time in a long time, that eagles have their eye on the junior angle and actually have some people and clubs that are open to this (union and league). With support from Eagles I do believe there is more to come which would be great but as you say its very skeleton at the moment.. 

It is a slight surprise to me (although I base this only on knowing that the Eagles have a long history of RL in the area) that the community game is so reliant on RU players given the proximity to the heartlands, and this is perhaps another indicator of the profile league struggles to develop in the city. Good luck though as you take things forward at community club level. You've certainly managed to generate strong numbers at those older age groups. Hopefully you will continue to see the buy-in longer term. At the end of the day, if they keep playing rugby league, it really doesn't matter what other sports they play, and when.

Anyone who has followed my posts over time will know that I am a champion of kids playing rugby league from the youngest ages (the game is so easy to learn at U7s age group, for example), but it is a long game. 

[Blind side johnny]

On 18/08/2022 at 10:12, ShropshireBull said:

How many SL clubs are dependent on sky money which they arent justifying and or a generous backer?  Not just a champ problem.  

Sky money is a fully justified income stream.

A "generous backer" defines unsustainable.

[Eddie]

On 18/08/2022 at 11:34, Northern Eel said:

Anyone who has followed my posts over time will know that I am a champion of kids playing rugby league from the youngest ages (the game is so easy to learn at U7s age group, for example), but it is a long game. 

It’s interesting that you say that mate. I’d say the same but I was listening to a podcast recently and John Kear (I think) said the opposite, where he said kids should play lots of sports and not focus on one until they’re 11 or 12, and he thinks kids playing RL a lot from a young age means they get bored of it as adults and stop playing. Or it may have been Ian Watson, one of those two. 

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

It’s interesting that you say that mate. I’d say the same but I was listening to a podcast recently and John Kear (I think) said the opposite, where he said kids should play lots of sports and not focus on one until they’re 11 or 12, and he thinks kids playing RL a lot from a young age means they get bored of it as adults and stop playing. Or it may have been Ian Watson, one of those two. 

I wonder if there’s any research that backs this up? It’s an interesting take on growing participation. My passion is to make RL their no.1 sport, amongst any others they want to play. I don’t want their RL experiences truncated each year because their favoured sports clash directly with the RL season. Too often I have found that by the time the kids reach secondary age, they are already wedded to other sports (particularly in their commitment to RU where the seasons cross over) and RL seems to be the poor relation almost every single time.
 

When you run a club where less than 20% of the kids play RU as well, you need good, long, competitive seasons to keep them interested. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Northern Eel

[Eddie]

59 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

I wonder if there’s any research that backs this up? It’s an interesting take on growing participation. My passion is to make RL their no.1 sport, amongst any others they want to play. I don’t want their RL experiences truncated each year because their favoured sports clash directly with the RL season. Too often I have found that by the time the kids reach secondary age, they are already wedded to other sports (particularly in their commitment to RU where the seasons cross over) and RL seems to be the poor relation almost every single time.
 

When you run a club where less than 20% of the kids play RU as well, you need good, long, competitive seasons to keep them interested. 

Oh yeah definitely, my thoughts exactly, I was surprised to hear Kear (or Watson) say differently, but they must have reason to. 

[RP London]

On 18/08/2022 at 11:34, Northern Eel said:

It is a slight surprise to me (although I base this only on knowing that the Eagles have a long history of RL in the area) that the community game is so reliant on RU players given the proximity to the heartlands, and this is perhaps another indicator of the profile league struggles to develop in the city. Good luck though as you take things forward at community club level. You've certainly managed to generate strong numbers at those older age groups. Hopefully you will continue to see the buy-in longer term. At the end of the day, if they keep playing rugby league, it really doesn't matter what other sports they play, and when.

Anyone who has followed my posts over time will know that I am a champion of kids playing rugby league from the youngest ages (the game is so easy to learn at U7s age group, for example), but it is a long game. 

While I see your first point on eagles history in the area that has to be balanced by the fact the last decade has been a desperate struggle to stay alive with no home and most resources taken up by trying to find a home for the next year etc. It's made it tough to concentrate on anything else. This is my big hope for the OLP, it may not be the best stadium in the world but its a home and a base which allows the club to concentrate on other things, like the juniors. 

It's a bit chicken and egg, without the fixtures the players won't commit and without the players you can't get the fixtures. Hopefully it's a cycle that can break. The players we have had have really enjoyed it but union holds out as that's where they've started. Now the concept has been proven in terms of it working for the club the full aim has to be to start them earlier. 

[Northern Eel]

4 hours ago, RP London said:

While I see your first point on eagles history in the area that has to be balanced by the fact the last decade has been a desperate struggle to stay alive with no home and most resources taken up by trying to find a home for the next year etc. It's made it tough to concentrate on anything else. This is my big hope for the OLP, it may not be the best stadium in the world but its a home and a base which allows the club to concentrate on other things, like the juniors. 

It's a bit chicken and egg, without the fixtures the players won't commit and without the players you can't get the fixtures. Hopefully it's a cycle that can break. The players we have had have really enjoyed it but union holds out as that's where they've started. Now the concept has been proven in terms of it working for the club the full aim has to be to start them earlier. 

Good to hear!

[The Future is League]

I don't know the area at all as regards Community clubs. Are there many in the Sheffield area?

[RP London]

22 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I don't know the area at all as regards Community clubs. Are there many in the Sheffield area?

4-5 depending where you want to draw the borders.. different strengths, some running age groups some just seniors.