Manly players refusing to wear Pride Jersey

[redjonn]

8 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

Lots of people talking about freedom of speech/religion and how everyone is allowed their opinion and so forth. And that is all perfectly true.

That being said, if you are objecting to a shirt showing inclusivity towards a historically marginalised population, I'll use my freedom of expression to call you a bigot.

Fair point... but then would be good if club did a Christian or religion support focus as that's becoming somewhat something that is attacked nowadays.

As you say lots of marginalised groups. As someone comments above is their a specific issue around Manly / Australia as to this choice to show support.   Will they be doing more such causes to promote/support other groups of marginalised groups - or is this a one off or have they done other historically marginalised groups previously...

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

Fair point... but then would be good if club did a Christian or religion support focus as that's becoming somewhat something that is attacked nowadays.

Bizarrely, for a sport that gets so much wrong, men's cricket in England does a really good job of being inclusive when it comes to religion.

 

[The storm]

8 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Would you be ok with your employer changing your uniform for one week to include a shirt with an image of Jesus Christ on the cross in support of peoples right to Religious freedom?

Or

 

Say you had to wear a gay pride shirt on the way to work 

Personally it would not be for me

[Dallas Mead]

Health and safety gone mad.  GammonSnowCancellerFlakes.

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Would you be ok with your employer changing your uniform for one week to include a shirt with an image of Jesus Christ on the cross in support of peoples right to Religious freedom?

We have a legal requirement to start every state school day with a Christian service.

Our national anthem is God Save The Queen.

We have an established Christian church that our Head of State is leader of.

We have Bishops who sit, by right, unelected in the House of Lords.

Every day in Parliament begins with prayers, most council meetings do the same.

Why am I wearing this shirt again?

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, The storm said:

Or

 

Say you had to wear a gay pride shirt on the way to work 

Personally it would not be for me

I certainly wouldn’t be keen to wear a Manly jersey to work, just because my employer may sponsor them.

That probably makes me a bigot.

[redjonn]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Bizarrely, for a sport that gets so much wrong, men's cricket in England does a really good job of being inclusive when it comes to religion.

 

found that clip interesting, especially the reminder of the importance of their religion and following its expectations.

[Tommygilf]

27 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

The NRL in recent years has seen an explosion in the number of players who have a heritage linked to one of the South Pacific nations, to the point at which the majority of NRL players now probably fall into this category.

Whether we like it or not, part of what these players bring to the table is a strong religious belief.

Manly clearly has a lot of players in their squad who fall into this category, so you might have thought the club would have consulted its players before making this decision. That shows a lack of respect for those players when the club should have known that they might have had strong views. After all, there are many ways in which the club could show its support for Gay Pride without making its players wear a shirt to promote a cause that they would object to.

In isn't the first example of a player objecting to something that appeared on a team strip.

In 2020 Sonny Bill Williams was allowed to cover the Betfred logo on his Toronto Wolfpack jersey because of his religious beliefs. Three years earlier, while playing rugby union for Auckland, he had been allowed to cover the logo of the Bank of New Zealand for similar reasons.

So now, by their clumsy decision, the management of the Manly club has given ammunition to Rugby League's enemies.

No doubt Peter Fitzsimons will hang his next SMH column on this.

Football is experiencing similar amongst certain groups of players. Most notably of course we've had Irishmen who have refused to wear a poppy, but going forward and more relevant here is a lot of African players who will not associate themselves with Pride events/shirts.

Most ironically this includes Idrissa Gueye (yes his surname is pronounced "gay"), who repeatedly has refused to play in PSGs rainbow themed shirt rounds. PSG and Gueye have covered it as an illness each time, so I actually applaud Manly for being honest that it is the players stating it is their religious beliefs that are behind them not playing.

Ultimately we (in the West which does include Australia) live in a society that is intolerant only of intolerance, or at least hopes to be that way. If they can't deal with that now its fine, they're a minority, and a shrinking one at that over time.

[LeeF]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Bizarrely, for a sport that gets so much wrong, men's cricket in England does a really good job of being inclusive when it comes to religion.

 

The England cricket team not men’s cricket in England as some counties and cricket boards are far from inclusive

Excellent interview/ chat on the link though

[LeeF]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

found that clip interesting, especially the reminder of the importance of their religion and following its expectations.

It’s an excellent interview or more akin to a chat between friends 

[FearTheVee]

21 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Would you be ok with your employer changing your uniform for one week to include a shirt with an image of Jesus Christ on the cross in support of peoples right to Religious freedom?

If I was a sportsman and there were a number of initiatives promoting tolerance and goodwill across a season, one being promoting tolerance of all faiths (which an image of JC on a cross wouldn't achieve by the way) I'd be perfectly fine with a shirt supporting that.  I don't know why anyone wouldn't.

Love thy neiighbour right?

Edited July 25, 2022 by FearTheVee

[gingerjon]

Just now, redjonn said:

found that clip interesting, especially the reminder of the importance of their religion and following its expectations.

Yes, I remember a few days after the final WHICH WE WON GLORIOUSLY the Telegraph tried to do some divisive nonsense story about the two Muslim players not being part of the champagne spraying. Which is true: they weren't. But what was also true is that the players celebrated together, took a moment for those who wanted to spray to do it, and then got back together again.

But that is only possible when everyone involved completely trusts each other and, more crucially, respects each other.

I think whatever the rights and wrongs of it all what is happening at Manly - and possibly, more, the way it is happening - shows that that respect and trust does not exist in the same way.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, LeeF said:

The England cricket team not men’s cricket in England as some counties and cricket boards are far from inclusive

Excellent interview/ chat on the link though

Yes, I did try and phrase it to mean: England men's cricket because, being fair, the women's national team is as diverse as a branch of Boden in the Cotswolds and the counties could all up their game.

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

If I was a sportsman and there were a number of initiatives promoting tolerance and goodwill across a season, one being promoting tolerance of all faiths (which an image of JC on a cross wouldn't achieve by the way) I'd be perfectly fine with a shirt supporting that.  I don't know why anyone wouldn't.

Love thy neiighbour right?

Excellent. Would you respect another player’s position in not wanting to wear that shirt?

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Most notably of course we've had Irishmen who have refused to wear a poppy

And didn't that go well.

[FearTheVee]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Excellent. Would you respect another player’s position in not wanting to wear that shirt?

Not really no beacuse I don't respect people who don't think there is a place in the world for promoting peace and tolerance.  Actibvely boycotting an act of peace and tolerance doesn't seem worthy of too much respect to me.

I wouldn't be looking to force them to by the same token, I'd probably file my likely reaction under "eye roll" which, incidentally, is the same reaction as when reading about these Manly players.

Edited July 25, 2022 by FearTheVee

[Dunbar]

Let me start this post by saying that I believe that the stand being taken by the Manly players is genuine and that they are doing what they believe is right.  Equally, I also think that they don't 'hate' LGBTQ people and I believe Christians in these situations when they say that the act is a sin and it is the person they are looking to 'save'.

But... the reason why this is all fine is that these people live in a liberal country where they can exercise their religious freedoms while gay people can attend Pride marches and be their genuine selves in the same society.

But here is the issue with religion.  When you take it out of liberal societies these beliefs very very quickly manifest themselves as persecution with people punished for the 'crime' of being gay.

I have no time for religion.  Not because of how it manifests itself within a society that will not allow it to persecute or punish but for what it will so easily become when it is left to its own devices.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Dunbar

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Not really no beacuse I don't respect people who don't think there is a place in the world for promoting peace and tolerance. 

I'd probably file my likely reaction under "eye roll".

Even if a poor marketing decision was made (as you very well put it) to use Jesus on the cross to promote religious freedoms.

I argue that the use of rainbow is an exclusive way to promote inclusivity. The madness of it all aye?

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And didn't that go well.

Does it stop teams wearing the poppy? No. 

Should this stop teams wearing rainbow themed shirts? No.

[The storm]

15 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Not really no beacuse I don't respect people who don't think there is a place in the world for promoting peace and tolerance.  Actibvely boycotting an act of peace and tolerance doesn't seem worthy of too much respect to me.

I wouldn't be looking to force them to by the same token, I'd probably file my likely reaction under "eye roll" which, incidentally, is the same reaction as when reading about these Manly players.

They dont see it as an act of peace and tolerance

They see it as a sin.. 

Their views are not mine

But im explaining that some people regard being gay as a sin 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Football is experiencing similar amongst certain groups of players. Most notably of course we've had Irishmen who have refused to wear a poppy, but going forward and more relevant here is a lot of African players who will not associate themselves with Pride events/shirts.

Most ironically this includes Idrissa Gueye (yes his surname is pronounced "gay"), who repeatedly has refused to play in PSGs rainbow themed shirt rounds. PSG and Gueye have covered it as an illness each time, so I actually applaud Manly for being honest that it is the players stating it is their religious beliefs that are behind them not playing.

Ultimately we (in the West which does include Australia) live in a society that is intolerant only of intolerance, or at least hopes to be that way. If they can't deal with that now its fine, they're a minority, and a shrinking one at that over time.

A shrinking one? The Muslim population in the UK is not shrinking. African immigrants are not getting less religious either. People on here need to realise that the West is an outlier and a shrinking one at that over time.

[Eddie]

29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We have a legal requirement to start every state school day with a Christian service.

Our national anthem is God Save The Queen.

We have an established Christian church that our Head of State is leader of.

We have Bishops who sit, by right, unelected in the House of Lords.

Every day in Parliament begins with prayers, most council meetings do the same.

Why am I wearing this shirt again?

I don’t want to enter the specific Manly debate, as nobody will ever change their mind, but just to quarion your first point, does every state school really have an obligation to start the day with a Christian service? Not saying you’re wrong but my kids’ school certainly doesn’t, and even when I was at secondary school in the early 90s we didn’t. I think we did in junior school in the 80s though tbf. 

[FearTheVee]

6 minutes ago, The storm said:

They dont see it as an act of peace and tolerance

They see it as a sin.. 

Their views are not mine

But im explaining that some people regard being gay as a sin 

I appreciate that, I was brought up catcholic so I'm aware of how people are able to believe all sorts of contradictory things that were drummed into them as impressionable children - and that is't limited to religion.

So explanation not required - I just think their view is daft and, sadly, results in lots of unnecessary and serious persecution when extrapolated across the world.  I also think that there appear to be a lot of things these players are happpy to gloss over in terms of faith but seemingly they draw the line at being tolerant of homosexuals for whatever reason.

Edited July 25, 2022 by FearTheVee

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, NW10LDN said:

A shrinking one? The Muslim population in the UK is not shrinking. African immigrants are not getting less religious either. People on here need to realise that the West is an outlier and a shrinking one at that over time.

True, but those groups are, a) still relatively small, and b) being subsumed into wider society with each generation.

You will always get radicals and reactionaries. Its their kids and grandkids who are the ones who decide the future.

[Ragingbull]

Just to highlight, Muslim players in the Ozzie cricket team dont have VB sponsorship on their shirts due to their beliefs on alcohol.  My genuine question is  why cant the 7 lads play in a shirt that has white stripes rather than the rainbow one?

Edited July 25, 2022 by Ragingbull