Toulouse out of pocket again

[binosh]

1 hour ago, glossop saint said:

In that case I'm not sure you understand the phrase 'roll the dice'.

Like trying to have a conversation with a vegan, anyway, whatever you think it is or it isn’t I bet they wish they had done things differently because now they’re back in the championship. 

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

How many new subscribers did Leigh bring when they was in Super League?

How many new fans did they bring to the club?

How many new subscribers will either Leigh or Fev bring to Super League in they are promoted?

How many new fans will either of these clubs bring to Super League?

I couldn't care a toss, if it is my club or it is @Fevrover or @David Shepherd or any other of those fans of Fev or maybe @The Blues Ox  and co at Fax we will thoroughly enjoy it, if any of us get new fans or new Sky subscribers good, but if we don't tough, I can only speak for myself but I am not bothered in the least about those sitting at home in their living rooms if they don't want to watch my club perform they have got the option of not turning on the TV if they so wish.

[glossop saint]

27 minutes ago, binosh said:

Like trying to have a conversation with a vegan, anyway, whatever you think it is or it isn’t I bet they wish they had done things differently because now they’re back in the championship. 

Making daft comments about a club getting an advantage by not playing at home, to making snarky comments about English language and then resulting in silly insults. Classy.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, glossop saint said:

What a lucky club. I bet the rest of the league were so jealous. 

And they should have gambled earlier, what a disappointment to the sport to not embrace boom and bust.

It would not have been boom or bust Glossop, it would have been speculating to accumulate, anyone with any gumption about RL could tell you that the Toulouse team making the transition from the Championship to SL would need to improve their playing roster considerably, Kheirallah maybe a loss but I was never of the opinion that Ford was suited to the rigours of week in week out SL, the mere fact of the matter is the Toulouse club wagered on their Championship squad to consolidate in SL they simply backed the wrong horse.

[Tubby]

4 hours ago, The Future is League said:

How many new subscribers did Leigh bring when they was in Super League?

How many new fans did they bring to the club?

How many new subscribers will either Leigh or Fev bring to Super League in they are promoted?

How many new fans will either of these clubs bring to Super League?

About the same as Toulouse, and that's the point.  The overseas Clubs are always favoured by a certain type of expansionist because they 'bring more to the table' than existing clubs.  This is intangible and almost impossible to measure, but it is stated as fact by many.  The truth is, a competitive club is good for the game, wherever they are from.

It's like the big city argument, we have probably four big city teams, Leeds, London, Sheffield and Bradford.  So does that mean St Helens, Warrington or Wigan shouldn't be in SL, or is that only for Leigh, Featherstone and Keighley?

The fact is, having a top tier of competitive clubs, be it 12, 14 or 16, would be fantastic, regardless of their geography or whether they have a name which suggests a huge population.

Unfortunately, being RL, we prefer to bicker and back-bite amongst ourselves over whose idea is best, rather than build on the things we agree on.  This seems to be a problem amongst those that run the game, almost as much as we supporters.

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

It would not have been boom or bust Glossop, it would have been speculating to accumulate, anyone with any gumption about RL could tell you that the Toulouse team making the transition from the Championship to SL would need to improve their playing roster considerably, Kheirallah maybe a loss but I was never of the opinion that Ford was suited to the rigours of week in week out SL, the mere fact of the matter is the Toulouse club wagered on their Championship squad to consolidate in SL they simply backed the wrong horse.

I agree that winning a part time league doesn't prepare a club properly for the super league, especially at short notice. If they had lost the playoff final having signed a host of star names then that would not have been a good situation. 

A problem with the structure maybe?

They did back the wrong horse. But they backed one that was less likely to put them in danger of financial ruin. Should we be encouraging clubs to take the alternative option?

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree that winning a part time league doesn't prepare a club properly for the super league, especially at short notice. If they had lost the playoff final having signed a host of star names then that would not have been a good situation. 

A problem with the structure maybe?

They did back the wrong horse. But they backed one that was less likely to put them in danger of financial ruin. Should we be encouraging clubs to take the alternative option?

Well............ Leigh are seemingly bucking that trend this season in that they are not waiting until promotion is secured, the stratergy which is plain for all to see was buy in a team to hopefully win promotion, OK it consisted of 13 overseas player's and they knew that if they do win the Championship 6 would have to be jettisoned, two have all but already gone, so another 4 to be released and two apparently homesick and going back to Aus so just 2 to go, but they have already Cherry picked the best and put 6 of them on extended contracts, also in all but the press release being issued there are another 5 SL player's signed up for next year, there is retention on some of the English lads in the squad and also speculation on a very big signing.

Now call this boom or bust if you wish, but at the end of last season Mr Beaumont said he had a plan to get Leigh back into SL this next year and if it failed he was prepared to go round again in the Championship in '23 and back it financially once more, it does need something in that the team promoted gives themselves the best opportunity possible to consolidated in SL the first season, perhap's if this works it may set the blueprint for the future, as you say still a risk, but as a Leigh fan I hope it proves to be one worth taking.

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

If Leigh didn't want to develop it's own talent, they wouldn't have applied for an academy license. 

But you seem more interested than talking negatively about Leigh / Fev, than positively about Toulouse or other expansion club. All part of the sneering mentality that shows up on here from time to time.

 

There is a lot to be negative about

[glossop saint]

Would you be saying the same if it wasn't Leigh? Will you be equally happy if Leigh lose against Fev in the grand final and against someone else next year? Encouraging clubs to risk their future? What was your opinion on Newcastle going full time this year and their recent decision to revert to part time? Maybe on Argyles decision to spend big on NRL players?

[The Future is League]

38 minutes ago, Tubby said:

About the same as Toulouse, and that's the point.  The overseas Clubs are always favoured by a certain type of expansionist because they 'bring more to the table' than existing clubs.  This is intangible and almost impossible to measure, but it is stated as fact by many.  The truth is, a competitive club is good for the game, wherever they are from.

It's like the big city argument, we have probably four big city teams, Leeds, London, Sheffield and Bradford.  So does that mean St Helens, Warrington or Wigan shouldn't be in SL, or is that only for Leigh, Featherstone and Keighley?

The fact is, having a top tier of competitive clubs, be it 12, 14 or 16, would be fantastic, regardless of their geography or whether they have a name which suggests a huge population.

Unfortunately, being RL, we prefer to bicker and back-bite amongst ourselves over whose idea is best, rather than build on the things we agree on.  This seems to be a problem amongst those that run the game, almost as much as we supporters.

Certainly Toulouse has brought new fans to the game, which is something  that Leigh or Fev will not do whoever gets promoted out of the 2 of them

[The Future is League]

3 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Would you be saying the same if it wasn't Leigh? Will you be equally happy if Leigh lose against Fev in the grand final and against someone else next year? Encouraging clubs to risk their future? What was your opinion on Newcastle going full time this year and their recent decision to revert to part time? Maybe on Argyles decision to spend big on NRL players?

I'm trying to find positives if either Leigh or Fev get promoted, and I'm struggling. Perhaps you can help

Edited August 26, 2022 by The Future is League

[glossop saint]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I'm trying to find positives if either Leigh or Fev get promoted, and I'm struggling. Perhaps you can help

I think that there are plenty of positives. Nice stadium, wealthy owner, passionate fans, plenty of history.

Do I think overall it is positive to relegate Toulouse and promote Leigh/Fev? Unfortunately not.

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Would you be saying the same if it wasn't Leigh? Will you be equally happy if Leigh lose against Fev in the grand final and against someone else next year?

Encouraging clubs to risk their future?

What was your opinion on Newcastle going full time this year and their recent decision to revert to part time? Maybe on Argyles decision to spend big on NRL players?

Off course not what a silly question, would you be happy with a Wigan win tonigh?, I have to go out now but I will answer you back In due course.

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I'm trying to find positives if either Leigh or Fev get promoted, and I'm struggling. Perhaps you can help

 

44 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I think that there are plenty of positives. Nice stadium, wealthy owner, passionate fans, plenty of history.

Do I think overall it is positive to relegate Toulouse and promote Leigh/Fev? Unfortunately not.

Sorry guy's you are going to have to live with it.

[steve oates]

4 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I mean you say this but wasn't someone saying a couple of weeks back Catalans games are amongst the most watched on Sky? Also for their home games Sky just pick up the French TV feed so it's no real outlay for them to show the games.

I don't think you really know what Sky's opinion of the French teams are, in fact if the presenters views are in any way reflective of the managements views they're generally quite supportive. 

In terms of a paying French TV deal, the line has always been that the French broadcasters want one home game a week which obviously a single team can't provide. We've had one single year with two teams but I don't think that tells us much because Toulouse would always be hovering above the trap door rendering a multi-year deal a risk.

I don't see any broadcaster committing in those circumstances so the truth is we don't really know whether the French can provide a TV deal but we've certainly not seen the conditions to make it possible.

Hang on here, there are no other clubs in France quite like Les Catalans. They have the Big catalan club, they have heavy investment from Gausch, they attract all the best French players, they regularly offer a great once a year experience to English fans to enjoy the best the French RL experience in the south of France break, anyone can offer by a mile and it's very good.....They are the only French club that can mix it with our top clubs.  No wonder they get put on Telly and get lots of admirers....

But you can't say that because Catalans are a top attraction here then the English would lap up any other French RL clubs. 

You are trying to suggest (devils advocate I know) somehow thousands of fans here may also visit Toulouse and thousands of fans here may also glue themselves to the TV every time that Toulouse also appear on the TV just because they are French??  Nonsense!!!!  If being French was all that was required to get this interest then why did France.v.England games die on a cold rainy night in Leigh before Harry Stottle, Gubrats and a few mates??

I am quite happy to concede if some billionaire set RL alight in Paris and doubled the number of quality French players and got back those big crowds from 1996 and started spanking Wigan and Saints that they should also be in............

Otherwise "non"

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Off course not what a silly question, would you be happy with a Wigan win tonigh?, I have to go out now but I will answer you back In due course.

True. I suppose I mean will you accept that was the right decision if Leigh are in financial trouble in 2 years time with no promotion?

[glossop saint]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

 

Sorry guy's you are going to have to live with it.

Of course Harry. No qualms with that. But doesn't mean I can't be disappointed. 

[steve oates]

1 minute ago, glossop saint said:

True. I suppose I mean will you accept that was the right decision if Leigh are in financial trouble in 2 years time with no promotion?

Yes it's true, thanks......Anyway......

I first noticed Leigh when they won the Championship play off against Fev some years ago at Headingley.

Their Rich owner Mr. Beaumont has had a lot of hard luck and poor decisions from the RFL and SL sent his way over the years, some quite unfair indeed. I won't list them in detail given I guess? Harry could accurately  reel them off  in minutes.

But the point is year on year they never have given up, never have faded, and Beaumont is putting in what looks like more than ever into the club? 

So where would the Financial trouble come from??  Derek is another Bernard Gausch That's what we want......

[steve oates]

1 hour ago, glossop saint said:

I think that there are plenty of positives. Nice stadium, wealthy owner, passionate fans, plenty of history.

Do I think overall it is positive to relegate Toulouse and promote Leigh/Fev? Unfortunately not.

Well explain it then?

Fundamentally the game is an M62 game.  Fundamentally it is a rich Northern English owners club that makes it work, backing the historic clubs accordingly.  Leigh fit that bill and have done for years.

I'd like you to sit in front of the SL bosses and make the case for Toulouse over Leigh??

Don't you think that most SL bosses will want Leigh in, and not Toulouse, what on earth would you say to change their minds??

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, glossop saint said:

I agree that winning a part time league doesn't prepare a club properly for the super league, especially at short notice. If they had lost the playoff final having signed a host of star names then that would not have been a good situation. 

A problem with the structure maybe?

This is better, and the problem is not giving promoted clubs a chance to bed into Superleague. 

Promotion is a poisoned chalice and TBF Leigh have never disgraced themselves when promoted, and have often missed out staying up by a narrow margin. Lenegan knows this and has advocated P & R every two years as the solution.  He wants the Wigan.v.Leigh derbies, the crowds and the excitement, as most fans want...............

I guess Saints and Wire and the the TV audiences would also welcome Beaumont and  Leigh as a regular SL club.

What do you want?? An anglo French league? A transatlantic League??  for what purpose??

Do you see riches beyond the M62?    Trust me  - There aren't any until you hit Aussie.......

[glossop saint]

9 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Well explain it then?

Fundamentally the game is an M62 game.  Fundamentally it is a rich Northern English owners club that makes it work, backing the historic clubs accordingly.  Leigh fit that bill and have done for years.

I'd like you to sit in front of the SL bosses and make the case for Toulouse over Leigh??

Don't you think that most SL bosses will want Leigh in, and not Toulouse, what on earth would you say to change their minds??

And there's it in a nutshell. I want it to be more than that. In my opinion having TO helps that happen more than Leigh or Fev. The arguments for that have been repeated often on here. You might disagree or you might be just wanting to support your club over the future of the sport like Harry. Whatever, you won't change my mind and I am unlikely to change yours. This all started when Binosh made a claim that Toulouse were lucky to have had no home games in 2021 which is just ridiculous.

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, steve oates said:

This is better, and the problem is not giving promoted clubs a chance to bed into Superleague. 

Promotion is a poisoned chalice and TBF Leigh have never disgraced themselves when promoted, and have often missed out staying up by a narrow margin. Lenegan knows this and has advocated P & R every two years as the solution.  He wants the Wigan.v.Leigh derbies, the crowds and the excitement, as most fans want...............

I guess Saints and Wire and the the TV audiences would also welcome Beaumont and  Leigh as a regular SL club.

What do you want?? An anglo French league? A transatlantic League??  for what purpose??

Do you see riches beyond the M62?    Trust me  - There aren't any until you hit Aussie.......

For someone who presumably loves the sport you don't have much confidence in it. Like many who are quite happy to keep it played in the same places and no more.

[yipyee]

17 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Well explain it then?

Fundamentally the game is an M62 game.  Fundamentally it is a rich Northern English owners club that makes it work, backing the historic clubs accordingly.  Leigh fit that bill and have done for years.

I'd like you to sit in front of the SL bosses and make the case for Toulouse over Leigh??

Don't you think that most SL bosses will want Leigh in, and not Toulouse, what on earth would you say to change their minds??

Leigh: A small part of the Wigan Borough , cannot help increase a TV deal, cannot increase the player pool, cannot increase the international game, doesnt bring new sponsors to the game, owner complains about spending money, but are a good medium size club.

Toulouse: A major city in France, can help to increase viewers in France and pair with Catalan to get a TV deal. Increases the player pool, adds depth to the French squad, brings new sponsors to the game, owner accepts money needs to be spent and happy (well not extatic) to subsidise all the other clubs travel. Are a large club striving for a fair crack of the whip

[yipyee]

M62 game?

Did the NRL remain a Sydney game?

Expansion is possible but expansion needs to be unfair to work.

[binosh]

2 hours ago, glossop saint said:

Making daft comments about a club getting an advantage by not playing at home, to making snarky comments about English language and then resulting in silly insults. Classy.

They did get an advantage though why can’t you accept the facts? They only played 66% of the games of the rest of the league.