Toulouse out of pocket again

[Wakefield Ram]

On 24/08/2022 at 12:17, DI Keith Fowler said:

There's a lot of noises coming out of Toulouse right now which I see as groundwork to get some kind of reprieve.

This is very much, "we're not going anywhere and you're going to make us burn through a lot of cash by relegating us".

The story the other day was their presence in SL had brought forward the possibility of a French TV deal, it's all very nudge-nudge. 

So Toulouse stay up, Leigh get promoted to make 13 team SL and my team Dewsbury Rams don't get relegated provided we finish next to bottom? Sounds a great idea

[Wakefield Ram]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

But in a way, he's right, because at the moment, we're not actually selling the sport in general to the French market. So, the sport gets extra cost, but no extra revenue. But it should be down to RFL / SL to sort that out rather than asking individual clubs go out and sell TV rights on their behalf.

Sadly, to do it properly would involve some sort of plan, with some objectives to aim for. All sadly lacking.

Maybe the strategic partners at IMG might be able to secure a deal? You'd think that's exactly why they've been engaged.

[Dave T]

6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

When was the last time a part time team took part in SL?

Warrington this year? 

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The issue here is the unfairness of it all. Not helped by certain ingrained beliefs.

To be far it is club officials, not supporters nor the club itself.

Tell me this is not insular? 

seriousaboutrl.com/derek-beaumont-believes-there-is-overwhelming-support-against-catalans-dragons-and-toulouse-olympique-not-being-in-super-league-56525/

https://aumag.net/no-commercial-value-derek-beaumont-has-his-opinion-on-the-huddersfield-catalans-dispute-over-the-value-of-french-clubs/

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/steve-mcnamara-criticises-disrespectful-huddersfield-following-alleged-comments/

So ' insular ' in questioning the financial aspects ? , And it was all bar one ? , So all bar one are ' insular ' ? 

 

[Adelaide Tiger]

12 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Am I being naive. Shouldn't the RFL fund traveling?

Surely the sensible way forward is

1. for the RFL/SL to ring fence ‘x’ amount of SKY money for travel to France.  If any SL is that desperate for say £30k then they should be kicked out of SL.

But the cost can be dramatically reduced if - 

1.  The game can create a partnership with an Airline operator for free flights or reduced cost flights

2.  SL guarantee that ALL regular season games in France are NOT subject to change of dates therefore IF a partnership with an Airline operator is secured then seats can be reserved/booked well in advance of the start of the season

3.  if a partnership with an Airline operator is agreed then you could have a maximum of 26 people per club  - 18 players, 5/6 coaching staff plus 2/3 others - flying to France next season on just 13 occasions (potential play off games could also be part of an agreement).  That is an absolute minuscule amount of cost to an Airline operator for sponsoring an elite competition event.

4. if the flight times of an agreed partnership mean one overnight stay then organise a partnership with a local hotel.  For one nights kip you don’t need the Ritz!

Is it really beyond the abilities of SL and Catalans to sort this out (why can’t I find an emoji that is saying feck me!

[Hemi4561]

18 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Am I being naive. Shouldn't the RFL fund traveling?

Absolutely  not, SLE   can fund it. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Surely the sensible way forward is

1. for the RFL/SL to ring fence ‘x’ amount of SKY money for travel to France.  If any SL is that desperate for say £30k then they should be kicked out of SL.

But the cost can be dramatically reduced if - 

1.  The game can create a partnership with an Airline operator for free flights or reduced cost flights

2.  SL guarantee that ALL regular season games in France are NOT subject to change of dates therefore IF a partnership with an Airline operator is secured then seats can be reserved/booked well in advance of the start of the season

3.  if a partnership with an Airline operator is agreed then you could have a maximum of 26 people per club  - 18 players, 5/6 coaching staff plus 2/3 others - flying to France next season on just 13 occasions (potential play off games could also be part of an agreement).  That is an absolute minuscule amount of cost to an Airline operator for sponsoring an elite competition event.

4. if the flight times of an agreed partnership mean one overnight stay then organise a partnership with a local hotel.  For one nights kip you don’t need the Ritz!

Is it really beyond the abilities of SL and Catalans to sort this out (why can’t I find an emoji that is saying feck me!

Yep really simple Tiger, then why in 14 years of continuous SL for Catalan and this last 6 years in the UK game for Toulouse why has It not been done previously?

Surely there is enough buisnes brains in each of those clubs and also the RFL and FFR to come up with some stratergy, in addition with Airbus being located in Toulouse one would have thought they would have some direct connection with the aviation and travel industry.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[dkw]

5 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Surely the sensible way forward is

1. for the RFL/SL to ring fence ‘x’ amount of SKY money for travel to France.  If any SL is that desperate for say £30k then they should be kicked out of SL.

But the cost can be dramatically reduced if - 

1.  The game can create a partnership with an Airline operator for free flights or reduced cost flights

2.  SL guarantee that ALL regular season games in France are NOT subject to change of dates therefore IF a partnership with an Airline operator is secured then seats can be reserved/booked well in advance of the start of the season

3.  if a partnership with an Airline operator is agreed then you could have a maximum of 26 people per club  - 18 players, 5/6 coaching staff plus 2/3 others - flying to France next season on just 13 occasions (potential play off games could also be part of an agreement).  That is an absolute minuscule amount of cost to an Airline operator for sponsoring an elite competition event.

4. if the flight times of an agreed partnership mean one overnight stay then organise a partnership with a local hotel.  For one nights kip you don’t need the Ritz!

Is it really beyond the abilities of SL and Catalans to sort this out (why can’t I find an emoji that is saying feck me!

Didnt Torronto do all this sponsorship things, I`m sure they had an airline sponsoring them and had accommodation sorted for visiting players and also fans.

[steve oates]

On 25/08/2022 at 02:54, Big Picture said:

Southampton is more of a big time sports town than Wigan, but it too isn't a place which would get outsiders interested in a regional sport based down there and that was the point I was illustrating.  For RL's problems to be solved it needs something which can do that and expand its fan base.

So in conclusion, "something must be done"

What nonsense. It's about keeping the current player and fanbase, and rich investors. You know - the real people.....

It's a business not a fantasy and you are blind to over one hundred years of reality where the rest of the country say ""No thanks we have Union and soccer"

Time to face reality and give it a rest my friend......

[Blind side johnny]

On 24/08/2022 at 17:23, DimmestStar said:

Toulouse and Catalans have been taking over £1.5 million of the UK TV money without providing a single subscriber so they are still well in pocket.

Let them keep anything they can get from a French TV deal let the UK clubs keep the UK TV money and then I'm sure nobody will mind paying their own fares to France.

How many subscribers does NFL generate?

[steve oates]

27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep really simple Tiger, then why in 14 years of continuous SL for Catalan and this last 6 years in the UK game for Toulouse for has It not been done previously?

Surely there is enough buisnes brains in each of those clubs and also the RFL and FFR to come up with some stratergy, in addition with Airbus being located in Toulouse one would have thought they would have some direct connection with the aviation and travel industry.

Leigh lads posts are the best 

Whilst Catalans are great, the idea of trying to make SL an Anglo French League is ridiculous.

The requirements were clear from the start, develop FRENCH SL QUALITY PLAYERS so we can have meaningful Internationals, and find a paying French TV deal. 

SKY sell the game to English fans, so they must maximise that. Catalans are very well financially backed, Gaushch doesn't moan about that and Catalans do use the best French players and develop youngsters. It's no that  great but enough to warrant ONE French place in SL.

Those pushing for more French clubs are actually...

1. Pushing for less English content for the English subcribers to SKY

2. Sending more of our players to play in France

3. Expanding high travel costs

4. Reducing  English pro clubs

5. BIG TIME cheesing off English fans

6. BIG TIME cheesing off SKY and reducing the content for the real subscribors to SKY

Love Cats and TO but read Lenegans Lips. No French TV Deal and no more quality French players, means in reality that TO offer nothing whatsoever to the professional game here. 

[The Future is League]

On 24/08/2022 at 17:23, DimmestStar said:

Toulouse and Catalans have been taking over £1.5 million of the UK TV money without providing a single subscriber so they are still well in pocket.

Let them keep anything they can get from a French TV deal let the UK clubs keep the UK TV money and then I'm sure nobody will mind paying their own fares to France.

How many new subscribers did Leigh bring when they was in Super League?

How many new fans did they bring to the club?

How many new subscribers will either Leigh or Fev bring to Super League in they are promoted?

How many new fans will either of these clubs bring to Super League?

[phiggins]

2 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

How many new subscribers did Leigh bring when they was in Super League?

How many new fans did they bring to the club?

How many new subscribers will either Leigh or Fev bring to Super League in they are promoted?

How many new fans will either of these clubs bring to Super League?

Expansion into France, or any other geographical area, will never happen while people obsess with comparing individual clubs, and making things an either/or equation.

Until there is a plan that sets out what markets the sport is targetting, and what can be sold to them, along with what foundations need to be in place to get there (especially for any completely new areas) and any non-financial benefits sought (e.g. stronger France team) then any changes to league structures, P&R etc.. will always just be tip of the iceberg stuff.

What Leigh bring is investment into it's structure. A full time environment, good facilities and a desire to develop an academy, which for whatever reason has been turned down at the last chance of asking by the RFL, but am sure this will continue to be worked on. The sport is not in a position to turn it's nose up at that. I hope one day, it will be, because it will mean the game has made significant progress.

[DI Keith Fowler]

12 minutes ago, steve oates said:

6. BIG TIME cheesing off SKY and reducing the content for the real subscribors to SKY

I mean you say this but wasn't someone saying a couple of weeks back Catalans games are amongst the most watched on Sky? Also for their home games Sky just pick up the French TV feed so it's no real outlay for them to show the games.

I don't think you really know what Sky's opinion of the French teams are, in fact if the presenters views are in any way reflective of the managements views they're generally quite supportive. 

In terms of a paying French TV deal, the line has always been that the French broadcasters want one home game a week which obviously a single team can't provide. We've had one single year with two teams but I don't think that tells us much because Toulouse would always be hovering above the trap door rendering a multi-year deal a risk.

I don't see any broadcaster committing in those circumstances so the truth is we don't really know whether the French can provide a TV deal but we've certainly not seen the conditions to make it possible.

[binosh]

As I have previously stated I think travel costs should be subsidised by the RFL however reading some comments on twitter that state Toulouse were hamstrung on signings because of travel costs are wide of the mark.

Toulouse went through 2021 only playing away games so they didn’t have the expanse of any travelling teams only the cost of their own travel, they were also allowed to opt out of the Challenge Cup. Their team stayed much fresher than any other team so they had a huge advantage all that year, they should really have rolled the dice a little and made some signings earlier.

I’m not buying the excuse that the only reason they were relegated was due to expenses. On the field it was 13 v 13.

Edited August 26, 2022 by binosh

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

23 hours ago, barnyia said:

You have to price in a coach to take the team around, which is around minimum a thousand a day. 

And equipment costs for travelling as cargo. Maybe not a huge amount but still needs to be factored in. 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

its a real shame that T.O. are going down, P.S.G lasted longer...  

[glossop saint]

1 hour ago, binosh said:

As I have previously stated I think travel costs should be subsidised by the RFL however reading some comments on twitter that state Toulouse were hamstrung on signings because of travel costs are wide of the mark.

Toulouse went through 2021 only playing away games so they didn’t have the expanse of any travelling teams only the cost of their own travel, they were also allowed to opt out of the Challenge Cup. Their team stayed much fresher than any other team so they had a huge advantage all that year, they should really have rolled the dice a little and made some signings earlier.

I’m not buying the excuse that the only reason they were relegated was due to expenses. On the field it was 13 v 13.

What a lucky club. I bet the rest of the league were so jealous. 

And they should have gambled earlier, what a disappointment to the sport to not embrace boom and bust.

[binosh]

8 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

What a lucky club. I bet the rest of the league were so jealous. 

And they should have gambled earlier, what a disappointment to the sport to not embrace boom and bust.

Not quite sure you understand the phrase boom or bust.

[glossop saint]

2 minutes ago, binosh said:

Not quite sure you understand the phrase boom or bust.

Yeah, that is the point of the comment.

Not that you are advocating clubs gambling their future which has gone so well for so many clubs beforehand.

[Adelaide Tiger]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep really simple Tiger, then why in 14 years of continuous SL for Catalan and this last 6 years in the UK game for Toulouse for has It not been done previously?

Surely there is enough buisnes brains in each of those clubs and also the RFL and FFR to come up with some stratergy, in addition with Airbus being located in Toulouse one would have thought they would have some direct connection with the aviation and travel industry.

I totally agree.  But does anyone know if this has ever been tried?  Toronto had the Air Transat sponsorship in place so it is possible.

[binosh]

22 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Yeah, that is the point of the comment.

Not that you are advocating clubs gambling their future which has gone so well for so many clubs beforehand.

Not really a gamble picking up some decent players when your top of the league and already beaten your nearest challenger 3 times, instead they ended up with Journeymen like Russell, Cunningham, Navarette and some other panic buys, they also forced Kheirralah out of the club when he was free to play. And now they have been relegated.

[glossop saint]

8 minutes ago, binosh said:

Not really a gamble picking up some decent players when your top of the league and already beaten your nearest challenger 3 times, instead they ended up with Journeymen like Russell, Cunningham, Navarette and some other panic buys, they also forced Kheirralah out of the club when he was free to play. And now they have been relegated.

In that case I'm not sure you understand the phrase 'roll the dice'.

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

Expansion into France, or any other geographical area, will never happen while people obsess with comparing individual clubs, and making things an either/or equation.

Until there is a plan that sets out what markets the sport is targetting, and what can be sold to them, along with what foundations need to be in place to get there (especially for any completely new areas) and any non-financial benefits sought (e.g. stronger France team) then any changes to league structures, P&R etc.. will always just be tip of the iceberg stuff.

What Leigh bring is investment into it's structure. A full time environment, good facilities and a desire to develop an academy, which for whatever reason has been turned down at the last chance of asking by the RFL, but am sure this will continue to be worked on. The sport is not in a position to turn it's nose up at that. I hope one day, it will be, because it will mean the game has made significant progress.

So you agree with me that neither Leigh or Fev will bring any new subscribers or fans to the game.

If this season is anything to go by Leigh doesn't want to develop British talent at any level with the amount of imports they have signed

[phiggins]

2 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So you agree with me that neither Leigh or Fev will bring any new subscribers or fans to the game.

If this season is anything to go by Leigh doesn't want to develop British talent at any level with the amount of imports they have signed

If Leigh didn't want to develop it's own talent, they wouldn't have applied for an academy license. 

But you seem more interested than talking negatively about Leigh / Fev, than positively about Toulouse or other expansion club. All part of the sneering mentality that shows up on here from time to time.