How to rebuild Scottish RL?

[EggFace]

14 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Football is King. Obviously.

There are a lot of people who don't like Union up here. A lot. There are also a lot of fair Union folk who enjoy league. 

Football is sadly wasted on the Scots and I have Scotland down as a sporting wasteland outside of Edinburgh, Glasgow....mind you I the Rugby in The Borders.

[EggFace]

13 hours ago, Welshleaguelover said:

Ireland and Scotland are a mockery but I wouldn't say there's zero interest.

The Irish and Scots are not exposed to the game. Scotland is football mad, Ireland has their own sports and add football and Rugby Union to that too.

The only way we'll make progress in those countries is by being authentic.

Let them be terrible for the next 20/30/40 years.

And before someone says "oh well Ireland had all those English lads playing football for them"

It's different, football has been played there for over a hundred years. There's more Man Utd, Liverpool and Everton fans in Ireland than Munster, Leinster and Ulster fans.

You forgot Celtic in there as well....reminded me how sad Irish Soccer fans are.

[Sports Prophet]

15 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

More game time in internationals

They get playing opportunities already. Having them be run over every set of six by a Tier 1 is not going to develop diddly squat.

Japan didn’t improve in RU because they got belted 147-0 by the All Blacks. They are improved now because of the improved coaching and playing opportunities they get week to week playing club footy.

Putting RL novices and amateurs against FT professional RL players won’t improve anything.

[MatthewWoody]

6 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

How many of the Scottish squad were born and raised in Scotland?

How many of the Scottish squad have played for a Scottish Rugby League club?

I think ALL TEAMS at the NEXT world cup should have a minimum of  5 players born in the country they are playing for and a minimum of 5 playing in there country's competition.

 

So you want more cricket scores.

[MatthewWoody]

38 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Why would removing heritage eligibility help Ireland and Scotland develop their own players? I don’t get the logic.

Cause there is no logic.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

25 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

They get playing opportunities already. Having them be run over every set of six by a Tier 1 is not going to develop diddly squat.

Japan didn’t improve in RU because they got belted 147-0 by the All Blacks. They are improved now because of the improved coaching and playing opportunities they get week to week playing club footy.

Putting RL novices and amateurs against FT professional RL players won’t improve anything.

Japan improved because they have a domestic league and can develop their own players.

no such thing exists in Scotland or Ireland, so until there is, why waste everyone’s time creating an international side out of heritage players.

if either can get a proper community league going then let them play home internationals against teams at their own level.

pitting Scotland and Ireland against the worlds best does nothing for their development domestically.

yes Scotland drew against New Zealand which was a magnificent result, but what good did it do, as RL arguably has a lower profile north of the border now than it did before that amazing draw

 

[The Future is League]

20 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

So you want more cricket scores.

I want teams developing their own players and relying LESS on heritage players

Remind what was the score last night between a team that develops it's own players and team packed with heritage players?

[MatthewWoody]

18 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I want teams developing their own players and relying LESS on heritage players

Remind what was the score last night between a team that develops it's own players and team packed with heritage players?

Well, Scotland once drew with NZ thanks to the "heritage players". Previously, they featured in one of the most entertaining games of the 2013 World Cup vs Italy. 

A one sided match v world's best doesn't change the fact that we'd a very less attractive world cup with amateur players instead of pro or semi pro players. 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[Jughead]

9 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I want teams developing their own players and relying LESS on heritage players

Remind what was the score last night between a team that develops it's own players and team packed with heritage players?

I wouldn’t look into the Tonga team I I were you. Or the Samoa one. Or the Cook Islands team. Don’t even worry about looking at Greece. Forget Italy, too. Ireland isn’t worth your time, neither is the Jamaicans. Leave Lebanon, too. Wales? You’ll just get upset. 

So, you’ve decimated international rugby league and crushed a load of good stories and interesting players and we now have England, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand and France left. How’s that going to work? 

[MatthewWoody]

5 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I wouldn’t look into the Tonga team I I were you. Or the Samoa one. Or the Cook Islands team. Don’t even worry about looking at Greece. Forget Italy, too. Ireland isn’t worth your time, neither is the Jamaicans. Leave Lebanon, too. Wales? You’ll just get upset. 

So, you’ve decimated international rugby league and crushed a load of good stories and interesting players and we now have England, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand and France left. How’s that going to work? 

But they'd have the right accents

[roughyed8]

A quick look through the Scotland RU squad shows numerous non Scottish born players, how competitive would they be without those heritage and time qualified players despite Union being played in Scotland unfettered for 150yrs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_national_rugby_union_team

[The Masked Poster]

The OP seems to be labouring under a misapprehension. Not only is/was there insufficient grassroots activity in Scotland to develop the game there to even a decent amateur level, players like Danny Brough were only playing for them as McNamara didn't want him in the England team (for whatever reason) 

There is no indication that come 2 world cups in the future, there will be any difference in the make up of the Scottish squad

 

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Japan improved because they have a domestic league and can develop their own players.

no such thing exists in Scotland or Ireland, so until there is, why waste everyone’s time creating an international side out of heritage players.

if either can get a proper community league going then let them play home internationals against teams at their own level.

pitting Scotland and Ireland against the worlds best does nothing for their development domestically.

yes Scotland drew against New Zealand which was a magnificent result, but what good did it do, as RL arguably has a lower profile north of the border now than it did before that amazing draw

 

Just because our governors are poor at taking advantage of opportunities a Scottish draw against NZ offers, doesn’t mean we should just stop creating the opportunities. 

[GUBRATS]

Remove the heritage Rule and we have a 4 team World Cup , it really is that simple 

[The Masked Poster]

12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Remove the heritage Rule and we have a 4 team World Cup , it really is that simple 

Well yes, if we had only just introduced the heritage rule. But we haven't, it's been there a long time and some countries are no further less reliant on heritage players than they were in 2000. Obviously some on here dismiss in this as irrelevant but I don't think it is - heritage players be should be a boost, not the sole make up of the team. And if they were to start with, they definitely should not be after 20+ years. 

And if RL is not going to be serious about developing those countries players, then yes, have a 4 nation World Championship if that's all we had. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by The Masked Poster

[gingerjon]

22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Remove the heritage Rule and we have a 4 team World Cup , it really is that simple 

Australia, New Zealand, PNG and France?

[MatthewWoody]

47 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Well yes, if we had only just introduced the heritage rule. But we haven't, it's been there a long time and some countries are no further less reliant on heritage players than they were in 2000. Obviously some on here dismiss in this as irrelevant but I don't think it is - heritage players be should be a boost, not the sole make up of the team. And if they were to start with, they definitely should not be after 20+ years. 

And if RL is not going to be serious about developing those countries players, then yes, have a 4 nation World Championship if that's all we had. 

It used to exist and was called Four Nations. 

[The Masked Poster]

2 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

It used to exist and was called Four Nations. 

That was the 4 nations. The World Cup is supposed to be different but if we can't be assed developing things, just be honest about it. But even that doesn't include bona fide nations like PNG and Wales (now) 

[Angelic Cynic]

Excellent OP from Welshmagpie who posts many a good thread.

I am sure I read on here that the playing of international games  was the manner in which to grow the  sport.Both in participants and spectators,as well as press and media coverage.

I think this is folly,as,it appears,was the spasmodic appearance in 2002,2004,of the Challenge Cup Final,and in 2008,the Magic Weekend, all held at Murrayfield.Edinburgh.

Without a sustained,strategic plan,with enthusiastic,knowledgeable, personnel being involved,over a sustained period of time,it will not nurture the sport.

Unfortunately, I don't think IMG will improve the situation.

[The Masked Poster]

6 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Excellent OP from Welshmagpie who posts many a good thread.

I am sure I read on here that the playing of international games  was the manner in which to grow the  sport.Both in participants and spectators,as well as press and media coverage.

I think this is folly,as,it appears,was the spasmodic appearance in 2002,2004,of the Challenge Cup Final,and in 2008,the Magic Weekend, all held at Murrayfield.Edinburgh.

Without a sustained,strategic plan,with enthusiastic,knowledgeable, personnel being involved,over a sustained period of time,it will not nurture the sport.

Unfortunately, I don't think IMG will improve the situation.

None of those games were internationals. 

[Angelic Cynic]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

None of those games were internationals. 

Correct.But wasn't the idea of the Magic Weekend away from the heartlands to increase interest in the sport?

Would Scotland hosting Australia at Murrayfield, and losing by a substantial score,increase participation for the future?

If so,let's go with that philosophy. But it will not work in isolation. 

[Gambass]

2 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

Well, Scotland once drew with NZ thanks to the "heritage players". Previously, they featured in one of the most entertaining games of the 2013 World Cup vs Italy. 

And nine years later, the local scene is pretty much dead in both countries...

[The Masked Poster]

36 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Correct.But wasn't the idea of the Magic Weekend away from the heartlands to increase interest in the sport?

Would Scotland hosting Australia at Murrayfield, and losing by a substantial score,increase participation for the future?

If so,let's go with that philosophy. But it will not work in isolation. 

Of course not....in isolation. These things have to be done as part of a wider campaign. 

I can remember back to a game which I think was played at Partick Thistle in 1997, Scotland v Ireland and I seem to remember the crowd being around 3000. Something like that could have been built on and they could have now been playing in front of around 10K in a similar stadium with a decent chunk of Scottish born and developed players. But the will hasn't been there to make something like that happen as the benefits can't be felt overnight. And that is the main problem in developing the game in new places. 

 

[hw88]

At the end of the day you need two things,

1 enough people sufficiently interested to want to play the game,

2 a structure that gives them a competitive fixture list for a whole season.

If those two criteria aren't met it cannot be imposed on them from above.

Apart from the big 5 how many countries actually have a functioning league with regular fixtures week in, week out?

 

[MatthewWoody]

1 hour ago, Gambass said:

And nine years later, the local scene is pretty much dead in both countries...

Yes and that's a shame. 

I'm not sure how that's cause of the "heritage" players. 

You could come to Scotland and Italy and with no government money help develop the game.