What to do about NH Rugby League

[Toby Chopra]

56 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I think everyone agrees that we need more international RL but I just don't buy into this theory that if England play France and Wales every year that France and Wales will improve. They won't, they'll just get pumped each year. If we really want these countries to improve there needs to be more players developed in these countries that subsequently go on to play SL and NRL. It's slowly getting better with more French players going to other SL clubs but they are still a long way off. Wales even further behind. If they don't get better players they will continue to struggle.

Correct 

[Tre Cool]

Playing numbers are too low.  France have what? 20/25 full time players to pick from?  Wales? about 10?  It's not going to happen without a big jump in playing numbers/standards in those countries.  Maybe the world cup in France will help that.  Playing England once a year won't make any difference.  They lose 2 or 3 players before a tournament to injury and France are no good.  Gigot lost them the game in the first 10 minutes yesterday.  He wouldn't get near a first tier RL squad.

Samoa, Tonga and Fiji have loads of heritage players playing in the NRL.  France don't have any heritage players in Australia or UK.  

I'd stop any NH country qualifying if they don't have a meaningful domestic comp.  Serbia do all this great domestic work and then can't get into world cups but Scotland, Ireland and Italy can?   

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tre Cool

[MatthewWoody]

Serbia would have lost more than Italy against Australia and Fiji. 
Let's not forget it's a World Cup and it has to have a proper standard. 
I'm still trying to understand how giving space to amateur players in the World Cup helps the development of the game. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[Tommygilf]

England need to take advantage of what we have too and help the nations around us develop, for ours and our league's benefit.

We missed the most competitive European opposition we ever had with Scotland c. 2016. We can't be in a situation where that happens again.

Annual games against Wales and France are a must for me, raising finances for those RLs and increasing our own profile domestically (they are games that scream "play me outside the M62" in London, Bristol or of course in Wales and France). Ireland, with their NRL contingent post season, should also not just be ignored. Lebanon are a paradox in that they are a Mediterranean nation with almost all of their players in Australia. However I'm sure they would benefit from a tests.

England also could act as a base to allow Australia, NZ, even the PI nations to tour Europe. A test (series) against England bookended with fixtures against France and Wales could be popular and present a lower financial risk than not just France for example.

[MatthewWoody]

As said some days ago, if there was a tournament in 4-5 Nations stile (like when Scotland drew with NZ), well the best eligible players from Scotland, Ireland, Lebanon and maybe Italy would play. 
This has nothing to do with development, but in order to give the NH a proper elite calendar it could work. 
Of course, this shouln't stop European rl nations from staging games and test with domestic players too. 

[Phil]

As far as France goes, lock at least two French teams in super league for at least 15 years for a start 

[Madrileño]

1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

 

I'd stop any NH country qualifying if they don't have a meaningful domestic comp.  Serbia do all this great domestic work and then can't get into world cups but Scotland, Ireland and Italy can?   

Agreed.

In the interests of consistency would you do the same for the Women's World Cup? (No League = no play)

Or does this strategy only apply to men's rugby league?

Edited October 31, 2022 by Madrileño

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Madrileño said:

Agreed.

In the interests of consistency would you do the same for the Women's World Cup? (No League = no play)

In the interest of consistency does that apply to Tonga & Samoa ?

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Agreed.

In the interests of consistency would you do the same for the Women's World Cup? (No League = no play)

Or does this strategy only apply to men's rugby league?

Different countries require different strategies.

The women's game requires different strategies to the men's.

Pretty simple.

[Madrileño]

4 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

In the interest of consistency does that apply to Tonga & Samoa ?

Of course it does (for me anyway)

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

Serbia would have lost more than Italy against Australia and Fiji. 
Let's not forget it's a World Cup and it has to have a proper standard. 
I'm still trying to understand how giving space to amateur players in the World Cup helps the development of the game. 

Surely the obvious answer is to accept that a genuine Serbian team will offer more to the international game *in the long run* than a heritage team popping up every 4 years with virtually no domestic league. If after 20 years or so (or even 10) maybe ask the question. 

[Guest]

Flogging a dead horse in Ireland. Union is the dominant code here and it doesn't have the same reputation as in England. Between union and GAA, league will have a very hard time gaining any traction. I agree with others who say the focus should be building up other nations with more potential.

[MatthewWoody]

53 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Surely the obvious answer is to accept that a genuine Serbian team will offer more to the international game *in the long run* than a heritage team popping up every 4 years with virtually no domestic league. If after 20 years or so (or even 10) maybe ask the question. 

What would they give "in the long run"? that they can give now? 

[The Masked Poster]

32 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

What would they give "in the long run"? that they can give now? 

In 20 years time they could have decent quality homegrown players. This in turn inspires the next wave of home grown players....etc etc until they actually have a good player base. 

It doesn't happen overnight but what might have the situation in Ireland been like had there been serious development work after that 2000WC? We could be looking at decent level Irish teams and a high percentage of the WC squad being from Ireland. But it's unlikely to happen so I suppose it's all just forum talk. 

[N2022]

If we want regular games with Fra, Wal, Sco, Ire and think Eng will be too strong, why not Eng put out an U-23 squad? Will be great development for a few who have impressed in their first season or two of SL and have an eye on the full squad and the more established handful could get some leadership experience. I'd watch it, though I get the other nations might feel patronised and Eng wouldn't want to lose.

[MatthewWoody]

11 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

In 20 years time they could have decent quality homegrown players. This in turn inspires the next wave of home grown players....etc etc until they actually have a good player base. 

It doesn't happen overnight but what might have the situation in Ireland been like had there been serious development work after that 2000WC? We could be looking at decent level Irish teams and a high percentage of the WC squad being from Ireland. But it's unlikely to happen so I suppose it's all just forum talk. 

How Serbia non qualifying for the WC stops them from developing their players, given they're so good in doing so? 

[Dirkgee]

4 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

But rl has got history only in part of the UK.

RL is popular in a only a part of Australia too. 2 of the 6 states play it as their main sport. The other states are Aussie Rules.

[ChristianB]

After watching last night's match, France desperately needed three or four more Justin Sangares. 

You can have all the fleet-footed backs in the world, but without an answer to hugely powerful forwards you are going to get walloped.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

RL is popular in a only a part of Australia too. 2 of the 6 states play it as their main sport. The other states are Aussie Rules.

2 states that are over 50% of the population...

[The Masked Poster]

11 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

How Serbia non qualifying for the WC stops them from developing their players, given they're so good in doing so? 

They *are* developing their own players. But they obviously aren't going to compete with NRL players and are hamstrung by being expected to do so. 

[Dirkgee]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

2 states that are over 50% of the population...

Didn't mean it wasn't a better situation than England, but its still only part of Australia. The M62 corridor has close to the same amount of people as those 2 whole states anyway. 

[MatthewWoody]

12 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

RL is popular in a only a part of Australia too. 2 of the 6 states play it as their main sport. The other states are Aussie Rules.

But in that part of Australia rl is as popular as football in England

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

Didn't mean it wasn't a better situation than England, but its still only part of Australia. The M62 corridor has close to the same amount of people as those 2 whole states anyway. 

Bold of you to assume RL is popular all along the M62 corridor...

 

[Balmainboy]

4 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

Playing numbers are too low.  France have what? 20/25 full time players to pick from?  Wales? about 10?  It's not going to happen without a big jump in playing numbers/standards in those countries.  Maybe the world cup in France will help that.  Playing England once a year won't make any difference.  They lose 2 or 3 players before a tournament to injury and France are no good.  Gigot lost them the game in the first 10 minutes yesterday.  He wouldn't get near a first tier RL squad.

 

Agree with that but I think you need England vs France to help increase popularity of the sport. Truth is it's a ten year minimum process to have France properly competitive. You need to double participation in France. Them being competitive in a home world cup will be the best chance they have. And obviously more players playing super league...

[GUBRATS]

It's interesting to see some of our Antipodean posters wanting the NH to compromise our domestic competitions to enhance the International game ? 

Edited October 31, 2022 by GUBRATS