Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, anjado said:

 He would definitely be in the 17, probably from the bench more because this is how he is used for Souths. I think even Chris Hill would have an outside shot. I would argue outside of Carrigan it's Australia's weakest position, it's a shame New Zealand didn't exploit it more. It's also Samoa's only way for victory they need Paulo and Papalii to dominate. 

For starters, they need Pauli and Papalii to stay on the pitch. 

[MatthewWoody]

England were overhyped for World Cup semi-final

Jon Wilkin believes England were overhyped ahead for their World Cup semi-final against Samoa at the Emirates Stadium. (Sky Sports)

 

Shaun Wane’s side were knocked out of the tournament, with Stephen Crichton kicking the vital golden-point winner for a 27-26 scoreline.

 

Speaking on Sky Sports, Wilkin told Jenna Brooks: “They were rubbish. They made unforced errors and uncharacteristic errors. They were flustered. I thought they were overhyped before the game.

 

“They’d had Ant Middleton in the camp the night before. For me, it was overstimulated, overhyped and it translated into a sloppy performance.”

 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/rl-today-england-were-overhyped-for-world-cup-semi-final-bradford-linked-with-png-duo/

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

England were overhyped for World Cup semi-final

Jon Wilkin believes England were overhyped ahead for their World Cup semi-final against Samoa at the Emirates Stadium. (Sky Sports)

 

Shaun Wane’s side were knocked out of the tournament, with Stephen Crichton kicking the vital golden-point winner for a 27-26 scoreline.

 

Speaking on Sky Sports, Wilkin told Jenna Brooks: “They were rubbish. They made unforced errors and uncharacteristic errors. They were flustered. I thought they were overhyped before the game.

 

“They’d had Ant Middleton in the camp the night before. For me, it was overstimulated, overhyped and it translated into a sloppy performance.”

 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/rl-today-england-were-overhyped-for-world-cup-semi-final-bradford-linked-with-png-duo/

Ah Jon Wilkin being Jon Wilkin.

Stuff like Ant Middleton being there doing motivational stuff is par for the course. If England hadn't done that then Wilkin would have moaned about that too.

[MatthewWoody]

The way they play shows they were overhyped. 
Not saying it's because of Middleton; but they were. 
About Wilkin, he's now a pundit and is entitled to his own opinion (which I agree with). 
England underestimated Samoa. 

[Jughead]

They were rubbish and did make lots of unforced errors but I’ve seen teams do that before and get blown away early and left playing catch-up. To England’s credit, they managed to stay in a game and could have won the game very late on, so there is some credit for them in that. 

Overhyped is an interesting one. They’d disposed of Samoa comfortably and did the same of PNG, their next biggest test, though the performance did drop off in the second half and wasn’t really spoken about that much. Otherwise, they did as expected, Greece was always going to have a scoreline that resembled an England cricketing batting collapse and France was always going to be comfortable in the end. England probably went into the semi-final as favourites based on their previous game but I don’t necessarily think they were expected to win as comfortably as they did the first time around. 

I’m not sure what relevance Ant Middleton has in any of this, mind. 

As I’ve said elsewhere, it was an abject failure to reach the final and the performance become sloppy in the PNG game and was, at best, sloppy again against Samoa and needs looking into. 

[MatthewWoody]

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/phil-gould-believes-englands-defeat-25505837 

This is interesting. I agree with him, golden point seems too much (as Golden Ball was in football). I know RL is a tough and tiring game, so asking players to play 10 minutes more can be difficult... but it's not the proper method imho. 
Not saying England lost because of this (especially because they had the chance to build a solid platform for a drop but wasted it with a forward pass...). 

[Harry Stottle]

On 13/11/2022 at 08:18, The Future is League said:

 

 

 

 

 

Our exit from the world cup lays firmly at the door of those clubs who don't produce juniors and are quite happy to sign has beens and never was player from the NR. The future for the game is here junior development, NOT has beens and never was players from the NRL

 

No it doesn't it lays at the doorstep of the RFL it is them alone who select which club's can and cannot run development pathways.

[Damien]

17 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/phil-gould-believes-englands-defeat-25505837 

This is interesting. I agree with him, golden point seems too much (as Golden Ball was in football). I know RL is a tough and tiring game, so asking players to play 10 minutes more can be difficult... but it's not the proper method imho. 
Not saying England lost because of this (especially because they had the chance to build a solid platform for a drop but wasted it with a forward pass...). 

I never mentioned it at the time, because it just sounds like moaning, but I completely agree. 5 mins each way is a much better way to decide a match then golden point and I've always said so. With the way England played they'd have still screwed that up anyway.

[MatthewWoody]

Just now, Damien said:

I never mentioned it at the time, because it just sounds like moaning, but I completely agree. 5 mins each way is a much better way to decide a match then golden point and I've always said so. With the way England played they'd have still screwed that up anyway.

Spot on. 
It's too aleatory (if that's the English word). 
You should give the other team the time to answer. 
By the way, that's not why we lost, as we had our chance and wasted it. 
But still...

[dkw]

41 minutes ago, Damien said:

I never mentioned it at the time, because it just sounds like moaning, but I completely agree. 5 mins each way is a much better way to decide a match then golden point and I've always said so. With the way England played they'd have still screwed that up anyway.

I quote like the NFL version, each teams gets an attempt, if they score a kick then the other team gets to try. If they score a touchdown then they win it.

[Hopie]

On 16/11/2022 at 10:02, MatthewWoody said:

England were overhyped for World Cup semi-final

Jon Wilkin believes England were overhyped ahead for their World Cup semi-final against Samoa at the Emirates Stadium. (Sky Sports)

 

Who overhyped them?

"Jon Wilkin says England's performance against Samoa in the Rugby League World Cup was one of the best he has seen in many years."
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/12723807/jon-wilkin-a-dream-start-for-england

Wilkin talks a load of old rubbish, if they pay him for his opinions they are fools, he is the type who loves the sound of his own voice so much he would surely do it for free.

[dkw]

3 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Who overhyped them?

"Jon Wilkin says England's performance against Samoa in the Rugby League World Cup was one of the best he has seen in many years."
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/12723807/jon-wilkin-a-dream-start-for-england

 

Yeah, he should definitely have talked down that massive battering of one of the tournaments favorites.....

[Davo5]

5 hours ago, Hopie said:

Who overhyped them?

"Jon Wilkin says England's performance against Samoa in the Rugby League World Cup was one of the best he has seen in many years."
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/12723807/jon-wilkin-a-dream-start-for-england

Wilkin talks a load of old rubbish, if they pay him for his opinions they are fools, he is the type who loves the sound of his own voice so much he would surely do it for free.

The bit about the England team facing up the Siva Tau was priceless,you’d think no sporting team has ever done it before.

[Jughead]

I think he’s trying to say Ant Middleton got them overhyped and over stimulated, which is one of the most bizarre reasons I’ve ever read for a loss. Here I was thinking that it was the error count and underperformance of players. 

[GeordieSaint]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think he’s trying to say Ant Middleton got them overhyped and over stimulated, which is one of the most bizarre reasons I’ve ever read for a loss. Here I was thinking that it was the error count and underperformance of players. 

If anything, they appeared under hyped and under stimulated on the pitch… Wilkin is talking rubbish.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

I think he’s trying to say Ant Middleton got them overhyped and over stimulated, which is one of the most bizarre reasons I’ve ever read for a loss. Here I was thinking that it was the error count and underperformance of players. 

This is a perfect illustration of why Wilkin is useless. He's using the wrong word and it completely undermines what he's saying. 

He is talking about them being too psyched up, too aggressive etc. rather than over-hyped which would mean over-rated/praised to most people. 

Of course you can use hyped-up in the sort of way he means, but when you describe a team as over-hyped how he has the ambiguity means the point is lost. 

He uses weird phrases and words to sound intelligent. He was doing it in the other semi final when he kept talking about 'manufactured kicks' which meant absolutely nothing to viewers. 

He really isn't a good communicator, he just tried to sound really intense and profound with every line. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Dave T

[Saint Toppy]

Welsby has now confirmed the reason for his handling errors in golden point. He picked up a hand injury in the tackle in the 71st minute which they suspected might be a fracture. He was assessed by the trainer but they decided to leave him out there despite the fact he couldn't hold the ball with one of his hands.

He's now returned to Saints and been assessed by their medical team and they've determined its not a break, but they're not sure as yet exactly what the injury is and will just keep him under assessment.

You seriously have to question why they left him out on the pitch when he couldn't hold the ball, especially when his 2 handling errors gave Samoa the field position for their DG attempts ?

[Hopie]

He should have gone off, but wasn't the forward pass that gave Samoa their last possession by Tomkins?

[redjonn]

On 16/11/2022 at 10:29, Jughead said:

They were rubbish and did make lots of unforced errors but I’ve seen teams do that before and get blown away early and left playing catch-up. To England’s credit, they managed to stay in a game and could have won the game very late on, so there is some credit for them in that. 

Overhyped is an interesting one. They’d disposed of Samoa comfortably and did the same of PNG, their next biggest test, though the performance did drop off in the second half and wasn’t really spoken about that much. Otherwise, they did as expected, Greece was always going to have a scoreline that resembled an England cricketing batting collapse and France was always going to be comfortable in the end. England probably went into the semi-final as favourites based on their previous game but I don’t necessarily think they were expected to win as comfortably as they did the first time around. 

I’m not sure what relevance Ant Middleton has in any of this, mind. 

As I’ve said elsewhere, it was an abject failure to reach the final and the performance become sloppy in the PNG game and was, at best, sloppy again against Samoa and needs looking into. 

As I always have said, why the decision not to take 2points early on. That has to be an indication of their frame of mind or over confidence or being over stimulated to believe they would score tries as easier as previous games.  Whatever their thought process it was flawed in not taking the 2points early on and I would guess in any other important semi or final in a competition they would always take 2points early on when the oppositions fresh as a daisy full of energy. To me its an indication of were the team leaders heads where.

Of course as chances were missed and Samoa went and kept going ahead frustration creeps in as the expected wasn.t happening. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by redjonn