Qualification for 2025 World Cups - IRL update on teams and process

[gingerjon]

Details: https://www.intrl.sport/news/regional-berths-and-qualifying-tournaments-for-france-2025-confirmed/

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Details: https://www.intrl.sport/news/regional-berths-and-qualifying-tournaments-for-france-2025-confirmed/

So the qualifying tournament is in 2024 with the 2023 euro champs being a route to it, but as yet unspecified (unless its covered in the other document).. assume bottom 1 or 2 drop out to be replaced by top of group B (would mean Greece still have a shot).. thena qualifying tournament in 2024.

[Damien]

I dont spot any obvious change from what was mentioned previously.

It's disappointing that they've stuck with Africa having no guaranteed qualifiers to reward development efforts there.

[Mumby Magic]

This is why only a couple of teams should automatically qualify. Cook Islands to play..... Ermmmm.... Errr.   Someone please. Someone tell me why a quarter finalist should automatically qualify for the next world cup?

[Tommygilf]

1. So for the mens, 9 automatic qualifiers, to be joined by 4 from Europe, 2 from Americas and 1 from the MEA vs Cook Islands Repechage.

2. Womens 8 automatic qualifiers plus 2 Pacific, 4 European, plus 1 more from the Americas and MEA.

3. Wheelchair TBC upon expressions of interest.

Doubling the number of Women's teams seems a lot, but I can see the logic to a certain extent. 

Adding a second guaranteed berth to the Americas in the mens whilst removing 1 from Europe is an interesting step. 

[Toby Chopra]

Seems pretty straightforward in the mens qualifying. I too am unclear why they're adding an Americas place at the likely expense of Greece or Serbia, I suppose it's just a strong desire to see the US back on board, which I can understand. 

My main wish is that even though 5 of the qualifiers won't be known until November 2024, that doesn't hold up the draw and schedule release. 

Use placeholders if needed so we can get tickets on sale 18 months beforehand at the minimum. Preferably more. 

I think a lot of people will want to travel from UK, but to max that we need notice. 

[Pulga]

Interesting they've written off Colombia and El Salvador for the Women's. Possible more in other regions in not privy to.

[RP London]

46 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Seems pretty straightforward in the mens qualifying. I too am unclear why they're adding an Americas place at the likely expense of Greece or Serbia, I suppose it's just a strong desire to see the US back on board, which I can understand. 

My main wish is that even though 5 of the qualifiers won't be known until November 2024, that doesn't hold up the draw and schedule release. 

Use placeholders if needed so we can get tickets on sale 18 months beforehand at the minimum. Preferably more. 

I think a lot of people will want to travel from UK, but to max that we need notice. 

Think it shows how well Jamaica did and the potential future that they could have.. make sure they are in and get another who can call on some expats in the NRL and Super League too in the States. Maybe at the expense of someone who would be losing by more from europe. Also possibly puts pressure on the likes of Scotland to get themselves in gear as I wouldnt bet much on them to beat Italy and Greece etc at the moment!

The Africa one they do get the chance as long as they beat the Cook Islands, dont have a massive issue in that in the present qualification process as with the 8 QFs and France qualifying you would just be saying the Cook Islands cannot qualify otherwise or taking another place off Europe. Their fault for this QF rule TBH otherwise it would be easier to say 2 straight from MEA and the loser in the Oceana group doesnt qualify. 

[Iceberg Slim]

I suppose it’s a money saver having all qf’s immediately qualify. 
 

i think moving forward it should be

pacific berths 6

european perths 6

america berths 2

mea berths 2 

I don’t like repackage. What I would do is have the repechage in the middle or nrl season so that they can’t access their cook island players. That will help South Africa compete abit better. But all likely Cook Islands make it again. 

[Young Blood]

0 chance any African team beating Cook Islands if they have a close to full team. Love to see 20 teams I know it will be one sided games but goal is for nations who make world cup get recongtion and more funding 

[Tommygilf]

44 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Happy to see another America team over NRL’s f team from Europe. Same reason that I want to lock in African team. More teams with no allegiance or dependency on NRL the better.

Sadly I don't think that is what you will get.

This will most likely mean Greece, Czechia and Serbia aren't making it whilst Scotland and Italy continue to do so.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Young Blood said:

0 chance any African team beating Cook Islands if they have a close to full team. Love to see 20 teams I know it will be one sided games but goal is for nations who make world cup get recongtion and more funding 

Think it's probably going to be Nigeria Vs Cook Islands. Nigeria could pull together quite a strong side but probably not as strong as Cook Islands.

Would be great if Nigeria could qualify 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes but NRL don´t hold sway over Nigeria or Americas and that would at least guarantee some more geopgraigcal spread not dependent on NRL. Would love to see us do the qualifiers in the summer just to cripple all the countries dependent on the NRL.

What possible benefit would that have?

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

For the second WCQ in summer , it means no Australian based players will be ablt to be used against nations like Greece and Serbia , to advantage them. So countries that develope players will have a greater chance of world cups and countries dependent on Australia´s z list won´t. 

Literally the only side affected by that in the way you want it to affect them is Italy. They had 14 Australia/NZ based players in their World Cup Squad, Scotland and Ireland had 5 each, Wales had 3.

Greece for their part had 15 Australian/NZ based players in their World Cup squad. They also had several in their crucial European Repechage game against Serbia that ultimately lead to their 2021 qualification.

Baby being thrown out with the bathwater it seems.

[JM2010]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Sadly I don't think that is what you will get.

This will most likely mean Greece, Czechia and Serbia aren't making it whilst Scotland and Italy continue to do so.

Think I would have preferred 2nd in Americas vs a European team for the final WC spot

[welshmagpie]

9 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

This is why only a couple of teams should automatically qualify. Cook Islands to play..... Ermmmm.... Errr.   Someone please. Someone tell me why a quarter finalist should automatically qualify for the next world cup?

It’s poor. I would be looking to play an Asia-Pacific Cup the year after a World Cup, 8 teams including Lebanon and the Cook Islands. 5 qualify from this, leaving 3 and 1 more (Philippines? Vanuatu? Japan? From an additional tournament) to battle it in proper World Cup Qualifiers the year after.

The Cook Islands are always the after-thought in the Pacific and giving them just one solitary game to qualify isn’t helping their cause nor helping Africas cause. 

[welshmagpie]

9 hours ago, RP London said:

So the qualifying tournament is in 2024 with the 2023 euro champs being a route to it, but as yet unspecified (unless its covered in the other document).. assume bottom 1 or 2 drop out to be replaced by top of group B (would mean Greece still have a shot).. thena qualifying tournament in 2024.

6 nations from Euro Championship and top 2 from Euro Championship B I would like to see - 2 groups of 4 to ensure additional fixtures 

[paulwalker71]

It would a shame if the Cook Islands got in again just by beating an African team.

I went to see the Cooks in Middlesbrough, and frankly, they were a disgrace. I'd sooner see an African nation like Nigeria, even if they ended up getting hammered (which is what happened to the Cook Islands, anyway)

Africa looks like fertile ground to develop - they should have a  guaranteed spot. I think Nigeria or Ghana would bring just as much as a made-up team like Scotland.

 

[welshmagpie]

 

[Tommygilf]

31 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Not really, we don´t want any nation to be incentivised or rewarded for relying on Aussies so Serbia instead of Italy would be a huge boost. Or Italy qualifiying with Italians would be a huge boost. 

There are only 2 professional leagues in the whole world, why wouldn't we want international players coming from the best of them?

Fwiw, Serbia would draw on as many NRL related players as possible too.

The key is establishing pathways and consistency in the international calendar, not binning off a source of playing talent because you don't like it. 

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Be

Because if you don’t incentivize countries to create their own pathways they never will. If you eliminate the ability of nations to import they have no choice but to grow.

Second from a NHRL viewpoint, there is zero benefit in strengthening the hand of NRL.

I'll repeat, there are just 2 fully professional leagues and only 6 countries in the world with Professional and Semi Professional teams playing in them. The pathways for those nations is ultimately for them to have as many players in those leagues. Playing a qualifying tournament in Summer incidentally would probably mean no players coming from the British leagues either; and the idea of having any nation not be able to call on its strongest possible squad for a for no logical reason is ludicrous.

I'm sure the Greek domestic lads benefited massively from having their non-domestic based players in their squad, likewise the Jamaicans. I'm sure the Serbs would be the same if the Trbojevic brothers and a few others turned out for them too.

"Strengthening the hand of the NRL" is a nice soundbite but it doesn't achieve anything practical. With only 2 Professional leagues to draw on, and arguably the NRL/NSW and QLD Cups being the best quality, to not acknowledge their player pool would be an attempt to live in fantasy land.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I'll repeat, there are just 2 fully professional leagues and only 6 countries in the world with Professional and Semi Professional teams playing in them. The pathways for those nations is ultimately for them to have as many players in those leagues. Playing a qualifying tournament in Summer incidentally would probably mean no players coming from the British leagues either; and the idea of having any nation not be able to call on its strongest possible squad for a for no logical reason is ludicrous.

I'm sure the Greek domestic lads benefited massively from having their non-domestic based players in their squad, likewise the Jamaicans. I'm sure the Serbs would be the same if the Trbojevic brothers and a few others turned out for them too.

"Strengthening the hand of the NRL" is a nice soundbite but it doesn't achieve anything practical. With only 2 Professional leagues to draw on, and arguably the NRL/NSW and QLD Cups being the best quality, to not acknowledge their player pool would be an attempt to live in fantasy land.

Exactly, in the end, due to what you mention with the 2 fully professional leagues, what you want is those 2 professional leagues cherry picking the best talent from the domestic leagues (for them or "feeder" teams in lower leagues).. so by saying no to heritage you would also be saying no to domestic players now being given the chance to play professionally. The only way players will get picked up is if those leagues see these players playing with top level talent and in bigger matches.. therefore you need the NRL and SL players playing to showcase that and to get the international teams playing better opposition. 

Without any of that the pathway doesnt work so well. Its not about just playing, its about aspiration. If someone can see that playing the sport in Serbia or Greece you can actually (if you are good enough) go to the NRL or SL and earn a living, then you may find more playing. If you just see that you'll play poor level international matches at poor "stadiums" then maybe you wont, you'll just play low league waterpolo or similar.

 

[RP London]

15 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

It would a shame if the Cook Islands got in again just by beating an African team.

I went to see the Cooks in Middlesbrough, and frankly, they were a disgrace. I'd sooner see an African nation like Nigeria, even if they ended up getting hammered (which is what happened to the Cook Islands, anyway)

Africa looks like fertile ground to develop - they should have a  guaranteed spot. I think Nigeria or Ghana would bring just as much as a made-up team like Scotland.

 

Its a problem made by the QF qualifiers. Now that the Pacific nations are all stronger they dominate the QFs meaning that all their qualifiers come from it but you need to give the Cooks a chance which is understandable.. so they have to manufacture them a qualifying "group". but its arguably too easy for them, if they had to play a european team would they win? arguably would they beat Jamaica. 

Get rid of the QF qualifiers and either have it as SF or just hosts being automatic and then you can have a nice qualification group in the pacific, bottom doesnt qualify which means you can get another team in Africa or America which would arguably do more good than having the Cook Islands there.. Or the Cooks have to up their game to knock out one of the other island nations, which again is good for development as its another stronger team. 

Same with Lebanon to an extent. How many games will they now play before the next world cup. If they were made to go through the qualifiers at least they are getting more games that they have to play, also means they have to up their game a bit because one slip up in a qualifier and they miss out.. thats not a bad thing. 

[marklaspalmas]

On 29/11/2022 at 07:39, gingerjon said:

Details: https://www.intrl.sport/news/regional-berths-and-qualifying-tournaments-for-france-2025-confirmed/

Just read and studied all that.

USA for Greece then.

As you were.

[MatthewWoody]

Qualifying process:
In the Europe Qualifying Tournament, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Serbia, Turkey and Wales will play in one group of three and one of four in 2023, with the two highest placed finishers from each group qualifying for RLWC2025.

 

This is very interesting. Italy, with a mix of heritage and homegrown players,can make it. The pandemic stopped the local work on players and coaches but this is the chance to restart