Rugby League NFTs

[gingerjon]

57 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So who gets the money you hand over ? , It has to go somewhere ? 

All that I know about money I learnt from The Beiderbecke Connection (ITV, 1988).

Maybe start there too?

[GUBRATS]

48 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I would never buy Bitcoin or any Crypto.  The upside is there but it could just as easily evaporate into nothing.  Especially as more and more emerge to dilute the space.

But it is not any more bonkers than putting value into shiny metal that you get from the ground... it is just that centuries of international commerce has been based on that one.

Yes , I understand that , and as mad as you make that sound , it's tried and tested 

[Man of Kent]

Wouldn’t touch this stuff with a bargepole. It’s inherently worthless, which can’t be said for equities, bonds, gold, land, property etc etc.

I’d argue cash isn’t inherently worthless either, as the banknote I’m looking at says ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of twenty pounds’ issued by the world’s fifth largest economy’s state-owned bank. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

as the banknote I’m looking at says ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of twenty pounds’ issued by the world’s fifth largest economy’s state-owned bank. 

And, to quote Beiderbecke, you go to the Bank of England in London and ask for your twenty pounds of gold, what do you think will happen?

[Man of Kent]

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And, to quote Beiderbecke, you go to the Bank of England in London and ask for your twenty pounds of gold, what do you think will happen?

They’ll say ‘We left the Gold Standard about 100 years ago, chief. But we promised to pay you twenty quid so we’ll take that and give you a new one with the King on it’

[DI Keith Fowler]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

You daily hand over pieces of plastic or exchange 0s and 1s with computer systems that have zero inherent value to pay for things because everyone else agrees that is what they all want to do too.  Sounds pretty mad when you think about it. That system works only as long as people believe in it, Crypto is no different, it just doesn't have a government backing it or controlling it.

Not defending crypto here. Its ability to be used for criminal purposes is obvious and it is used for those purposes every day. 

But that's fully the point as to why they're different.

Don't want to get all Hobbesian but the reason they are different is because nation states have a monopoly on violence. If you choose you don't believe in pounds tomorrow your tax is still due in pounds, if you refuse to pay you'll eventually be arrested, if you refuse to be arrested you'll be bashed over the head.

Everything naturally flows from this principle, it gives pounds value that cannot simply evaporate because people decide they're worthless. 

[Man of Kent]

31 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

But that's fully the point as to why they're different.

Don't want to get all Hobbesian but the reason they are different is because nation states have a monopoly on violence. If you choose you don't believe in pounds tomorrow your tax is still due in pounds, if you refuse to pay you'll eventually be arrested, if you refuse to be arrested you'll be bashed over the head.

Everything naturally flows from this principle, it gives pounds value that cannot simply evaporate because people decide they're worthless. 

Exactly.

Sterling is legal tender backed by a highly credible government (no laughing at the back, please) whereas crypto appears to be a scam backed by a portly Californian sitting in his pants.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

But that's fully the point as to why they're different.

Don't want to get all Hobbesian but the reason they are different is because nation states have a monopoly on violence. If you choose you don't believe in pounds tomorrow your tax is still due in pounds, if you refuse to pay you'll eventually be arrested, if you refuse to be arrested you'll be bashed over the head.

Everything naturally flows from this principle, it gives pounds value that cannot simply evaporate because people decide they're worthless. 

As has been said, that is true for stable governments and societies, but they aren't as common as we would like in the world. I would also put every revolution ever to the Hobbesian assertation you make. The state can back whatever it likes, but if that state collapses, there's absolutely no value in any of it. US dollars fulfilled this role around the world for a number of years in less than stable countries, Crypto is doing a lot of that now too.

It rather is the point that Government (good or bad) cannot control it as a currency that is attractive about it for many people. Its valuable for those at risk of oppressive regimes, and it presents an opportunity for criminals too.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As has been said, that is true for stable governments and societies, but they aren't as common as we would like in the world. I would also put every revolution ever to the Hobbesian assertation you make. The state can back whatever it likes, but if that state collapses, there's absolutely no value in any of it. US dollars fulfilled this role around the world for a number of years in less than stable countries, Crypto is doing a lot of that now too.

It rather is the point that Government (good or bad) cannot control it as a currency that is attractive about it for many people. Its valuable for those at risk of oppressive regimes, and it presents an opportunity for criminals too.

For all the criticisms some may have, and many of these certainly hold true, crypto has certainly made a real difference to many poor people around the world and has allowed them to escape the impact of local government policy and rule.

Crypto has been invaluable for people in turbulent countries like Venezuela. Bitcoin is usually linked to the dollar so provides a way for people to get access to a stable hard currency and hedge against the massive hyper inflation in the country.

[Tommygilf]

11 hours ago, Damien said:

For all the criticisms some may have, and many of these certainly hold true, crypto has certainly made a real difference to many poor people around the world and has allowed them to escape the impact of local government policy and rule.

Crypto has been invaluable for people in turbulent countries like Venezuela. Bitcoin is usually linked to the dollar so provides a way for people to get access to a stable hard currency and hedge against the massive hyper inflation in the country.

Yep, and not even that far away in Eastern Europe and most notably in recent times Russia, cash USD used to be how the population protected their finances from governments they didn't trust. Bitcoin and other cryptos have taken on a lot of that role now as more governments crack down.

[DI Keith Fowler]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

As has been said, that is true for stable governments and societies, but they aren't as common as we would like in the world. I would also put every revolution ever to the Hobbesian assertation you make. The state can back whatever it likes, but if that state collapses, there's absolutely no value in any of it.

I mean this is just "if my auntie had ******** she'd be my uncle" logic. If a revolution occurs authority passes over to the new group, that isn't a refutation of the idea that currency derives it's value from the issuer holding power it's an assertion of that. Bitcoin never, ever, has this, this is the difference.

You can't say fiat currency and bitcoin are of equivalent value because nation states might collapse tomorrow because we know in reality that isn't going to happen.

 

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I mean this is just "if my auntie had ******** she'd be my uncle" logic. If a revolution occurs authority passes over to the new group, that isn't a refutation of the idea that currency derives it's value from the issuer holding power it's an assertion of that. Bitcoin never, ever, has this, this is the difference.

You can't say fiat currency and bitcoin are of equivalent value because nation states might collapse tomorrow because we know in reality that isn't going to happen.

 

I didn't say they were equivalent value, they are just another currency, and fit somewhere in with that.

[Dunbar]

The ultimate problem with Bitcoin is that it was built to be a digital currency but many people see it as an investment asset (buy and hold) and so it is not being used for its intended purpose.

[Tommygilf]

57 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The ultimate problem with Bitcoin is that it was built to be a digital currency but many people see it as an investment asset (buy and hold) and so it is not being used for its intended purpose.

Apart from on the Dark Web of course, where it is the currency of choice.

[Barry Badrinath]

3 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I mean this is just "if my auntie had ******** she'd be my uncle" logic. If a revolution occurs authority passes over to the new group, that isn't a refutation of the idea that currency derives it's value from the issuer holding power it's an assertion of that. Bitcoin never, ever, has this, this is the difference.

You can't say fiat currency and bitcoin are of equivalent value because nation states might collapse tomorrow because we know in reality that isn't going to happen.

 

i've got a suitcase full of Barry Badrinath Dollars for a revolution.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

20 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

as the banknote I’m looking at says ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of twenty pounds’ issued by the world’s fifth largest economy’s state-owned bank. 

Exactly.....the value is backed by on what worlds richest and most stable economies ....it's about as guaranteed as they come 

Bitcoin is entirely valued on demand of the public....as fickle as they come!

[GUBRATS]

On the news now , 15 million Bitcoin fraud from a terraced house in Blackpool 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

On the news now , 15 million Bitcoin fraud from a terraced house in Blackpool 

Just to clarify. A £15 million Bitcoin fraud as 15 million Bitcoin is £261 billion.

[Copa]

The vast majority of people I know who are involved in crypto seem to be average blokes cosplaying a business man or entrepreneur.

They don’t really know what they’re doing… the wannabes in the gym have their “bro science” and the crypto guys have their “bro economics”

[JohnM]

On 16/01/2023 at 21:09, DI Keith Fowler said:

But that's fully the point as to why they're different.

Don't want to get all Hobbesian but the reason they are different is because nation states have a monopoly on violence. If you choose you don't believe in pounds tomorrow your tax is still due in pounds, if you refuse to pay you'll eventually be arrested, if you refuse to be arrested you'll be bashed over the head.

Everything naturally flows from this principle, it gives pounds value that cannot simply evaporate because people decide they're worthless. 

 if you refuse to be arrested you'll be bashed over the head.

If only that were true.

[Tommygilf]

13 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Exactly.....the value is backed by on what worlds richest and most stable economies ....it's about as guaranteed as they come 

Bitcoin is entirely valued on demand of the public....as fickle as they come!

Again, great if your government is fairly reliable. Not so great if your government is a basket case, or liable to arbitrarily seize your property, or declare war on a sovereign state it can't beat quickly so it faces international sanctions that massively impacts the currency.

Demand of the public is exactly what governments need to prop up their own currency. For the past 30 years at least, Russians have been routinely converting a large amount of their wages into cash USD, which is literally just a piece of paper in Russia, because they don't have confidence in the Russian Rouble. The foremost cryptos like Bitcoin and Ethereum are just alternatives to that for many and don't rely on accessing cash USD. The Russian economy has been hampered for years because of this basic lack of confidence in its currency. Currency values are based on confidence, there is basically no inherent value in them without that.

[bobbruce]

There was also someone last year I think who had millions of £s in crypto currency. He’d forgot his password so couldn’t get at it he’d had two attempts to get in and failed and a third wrong attempt would lock him out forever. I’m not sure what happened to him and whether he did actually get it back or not. 

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, bobbruce said:

There was also someone last year I think who had millions of £s in crypto currency. He’d forgot his password so couldn’t get at it he’d had two attempts to get in and failed and a third wrong attempt would lock him out forever. I’m not sure what happened to him and whether he did actually get it back or not. 

Idiot gets locked out of his own computer with no backup is a classic. 

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Idiot gets locked out of his own computer with no backup is a classic. 

Having tried to find the story there’s loads done it. Also someone chucked the wrong hard drive away and lost £280m worth. The story was about him trying to get the council to let him search the tip. 

[Tommygilf]

7 hours ago, Copa said:

The vast majority of people I know who are involved in crypto seem to be average blokes cosplaying a business man or entrepreneur.

They don’t really know what they’re doing… the wannabes in the gym have their “bro science” and the crypto guys have their “bro economics”

Can see why many would rather do that than go out and flog themselves into an early grave doing a job they hate like their parents and grandparents. In fact, probably worse than that, because of the lack of mass industry (and its social pride and benefits), at least older generations had that to fall back on. Oh, and you can't afford to own your own home till those same older generations die and pass on wealth.

Its pretty naff to be a young person financially these days by the traditional metrics we have associated with increasing prosperity over the past 100 years. Its no surprise that many, particularly young men, are attracted to alternative systems. I say young men specifically as at the same time as the crypto and gym bros you describe there appears to be two similar narratives for women to either be work focussed, and I quote, "boss bitches", or to essentially just marry a rich man (which has always been there but is being amplified by Social Media).

For all that it is quite bad, history has shown us that there are worse outcomes to these sorts of pressures on young people. Swings and roundabouts?