9s tournament

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Thats a good point. Fans could be engaged for longer as their club’s games would be spread out over the day/weekend

Quite, and I think its a bit more chilled tbh. I've been there after a full day drinking for some people at the end of a hot day when the atmosphere is intense, booze fuelled and angry in the latter half of the final saturday game and that version of magic isn't very nice.

I've also been one of the drunk thousands at the end of a final saturday game, but thankfully we were rubbish so it wasn't intense and we drank to that!

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we often think about 9s incorrectly.

It isn't a short form, its a full day version of an RL event. 1 9s game is obviously shorter, but nobody ever plays 1 nines game exclusively.

A 9s festival would be a way to get a full day, or two day, event into RL, where fans from all clubs have their teams playing for the majority of the time.

At Magic Weekend currently if your team plays first on saturday is over for you and your direct interest by 4ish on saturday. That isn't the case in a 9s festival.

So no 9s isn't trying to make the game shorter, its trying to make RL suitable for an all day event.

ok thats interesting. So the problem it is trying to solve is to keep ALL fans interested for as long as possible.. fair enough. 

I can see the thought there and potentially it can work that way around. The big key is then about making sure the best players still want to play, you will lose some of the bigger names and players because they naturally wont want to play 9s and the clubs will see it as a chance to rest players heavily which then could dilute the whole thing (no matter the prize money). Thats one danger of it, and by diluting it will people want to go? 

But in general the idea is fair and can see how it might work. I'd certainly like to see a championship select team, Army, Navy maybe Wales, Ireland and Scotland involved too if they could do it. It just would need a really big buy in from the super league teams to take the risk on players (while also blooding some youngsters)

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'd rather pour raw Scotch Bonnet juice into my eyes while my nuts are constantly jolted by electrodes than watch that. 

I'd pay to watch that , the first bit , not the 9s

[GUBRATS]

9s is a useful tool to get new countries playing the game requiring less playing numbers 

And in my opinion should be the main Women's competition for the next decade while we increase participation and skill levels 

I now await the usual abuse for my opinion on this subject

Edited June 7, 2023 by GUBRATS

[Tommygilf]

Just now, RP London said:

ok thats interesting. So the problem it is trying to solve is to keep ALL fans interested for as long as possible.. fair enough. 

I can see the thought there and potentially it can work that way around. The big key is then about making sure the best players still want to play, you will lose some of the bigger names and players because they naturally wont want to play 9s and the clubs will see it as a chance to rest players heavily which then could dilute the whole thing (no matter the prize money). Thats one danger of it, and by diluting it will people want to go? 

But in general the idea is fair and can see how it might work. I'd certainly like to see a championship select team, Army, Navy maybe Wales, Ireland and Scotland involved too if they could do it. It just would need a really big buy in from the super league teams to take the risk on players (while also blooding some youngsters)

To do it successfully I think you'd need a good sponsor and decent prize money on offer. If the RFL wanted to be a bit cheeky, a portion of said prize money paid directly to players could be an option.

I agree with your suggestion and can see how its got options to get some alternative or left field teams included.

As I said I think we often see a dismissal of 9s because "we don't need a shorter format", which is absolutely correct, but bears zero correlation with any 9s event which are full day or 2 day affairs. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, OnStrike said:

I was listening to the FortyTwenty podcast today and they were talking about a 9s tournament to replace Magic Weekend. 

I have to say, it sounded like the worst idea I've ever heard. Mad suggestions of a try being worth 6 points for a certain player on either team and other similar nonsense. It was actually annoying me listening to it and I usually enjoy their podcast. Whatever it was they were describing, it wasn't rugby league.

I hope I'm not the only one thinking that something like that would be a complete joke. Fans know when something is Mickey Mouse and this most certainly would be Mickey Mouse.

If Magic Weekend is to go, I'm not sure what should replace it but in the name of God, don't let it be a joke of a 9s tournament as set out in the FortyTwenty podcast!

Listened to the same. They are obsessed with it.

Nobody cares about 9s. Would be a stupid decision of immense self harm for the sport.

Nobody cares about 7s either. The only reason that was ever a thing was because the Ra Ras accepted the 15 a side code was as dull as dishwater. Not a problem for RL.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Leonard

[OnStrike]

4 minutes ago, Leonard said:

 Would be a stupid decision of immense self harm for the sport.

Agree with that 100%

[lucky 7]

15 hours ago, OnStrike said:

I was listening to the FortyTwenty podcast today and they were talking about a 9s tournament to replace Magic Weekend. 

I have to say, it sounded like the worst idea I've ever heard. Mad suggestions of a try being worth 6 points for a certain player on either team and other similar nonsense. It was actually annoying me listening to it and I usually enjoy their podcast. Whatever it was they were describing, it wasn't rugby league.

I hope I'm not the only one thinking that something like that would be a complete joke. Fans know when something is Mickey Mouse and this most certainly would be Mickey Mouse.

If Magic Weekend is to go, I'm not sure what should replace it but in the name of God, don't let it be a joke of a 9s tournament as set out in the FortyTwenty podcast!

No no no to a 9's tournament to replace the magic weekend

[lucky 7]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm fairly ambivalent about 9s and I'm not sure if it has a role or not in terms of SL. The NRL's love affair with it was very short loved. I think for 9s to have any place it has to be have serious, credible games and I am sure that gimmicks, like those outlined, will do nothing but see it fail.

The Magic vibe does seem to fit the 9s concept but as I said on another thread it will take serious money as a prize together to get buy in from clubs.

Perhaps have 9's as a preseason tournament, but never once the season has started.

[OnStrike]

2 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Perhaps have 9's as a preseason tournament, but never once the season has started.

Yeah maybe that would be fine. But, as you say, imagine Super League stopped next week so we could hold a circus type show. Anyone who took the sport seriously would surely be embarrassed.

[lucky 7]

48 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Listened to the same. They are obsessed with it.

Nobody cares about 9s. Would be a stupid decision of immense self harm for the sport.

Nobody cares about 7s either. The only reason that was ever a thing was because the Ra Ras accepted the 15 a side code was as dull as dishwater. Not a problem for RL.

The Sydney Rugby League 7's was a success until the clubs started to put out weakened teams, which led to its demise

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

The Sydney Rugby League 7's was a success until the clubs started to put out weakened teams, which led to its demise

The only decent point they made was that apparently 60k tickets are needed to make a profit.

Not sure I get that - as I thought cities/grounds bid for the event? Why are costs so high then and especially when all the games are at the same venue and that venue will be creaming in beer money as well?

I'd say looking at the cost structure and making money from Magic is better than trying to start a format with no history and where there is not a chance they would get 60k.

[fighting irish]

3 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Thats a good point. Fans could be engaged for longer as their club’s games would be spread out over the day/weekend

Yes indeed. 

[Jughead]

Personally, I’m unsure on 9’s. I’m not sure what the motive behind it would be but then, I’m not sure what the motive behind Magic Weekend is, so it’s in the same boat as that. 

I think you’d need a large prize to entice teams to play. Had a 9’s competition been in place last weekend instead of Magic, I doubt you’d have seen Tommy Makinson and instead would have likely seen Jon Bennison instead because Saints are playing Wigan this coming weekend in a pretty big fixture. While there is not a lot wrong with Bennison, potentially hosting a tournament with many star players likely to be putting their feet up for the weekend, isn’t a good look for the credibility of the event and is likely going to effect attendance, in a similar way the England mid-season international isn’t that appetising, partly because a number of the regular England internationals are located in Australia so are automatically unavailable for selection. One suggestion was clubs to put up their own money, say £8,500 approximately, which makes sense but these are the very same clubs that wouldn’t/couldn’t pay for two trips to France to complete their fixtures in 2022, so the likelihood of them stumping up money for a 9’s tournament is very unlikely. 

I’m not sure who it appeals to within the existing fanbase, either. There isn’t really a precedence for 9’s rugby league barring a midweek tournament in Leeds about fifteen years ago. I’m not sure who plays 9’s in the UK, if at all and I’m not sure that it’s even been proposed that it’s going to be an area of focus to get more people playing it and to create more competitions under that format.

I’m not sure if I would attend. I am a big fan of Magic, I like the concept but I do think it could be done a lot better than it is presently. I like that it’s league points up for grabs and I like that I get to see everyone live and often games between similarly suited sides. Would a 9’s tournament draw my attention? I’m not so sure. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Personally, I’m unsure on 9’s. I’m not sure what the motive behind it would be but then, I’m not sure what the motive behind Magic Weekend is, so it’s in the same boat as that. 

I think you’d need a large prize to entice teams to play. Had a 9’s competition been in place last weekend instead of Magic, I doubt you’d have seen Tommy Makinson and instead would have likely seen Jon Bennison instead because Saints are playing Wigan this coming weekend in a pretty big fixture. While there is not a lot wrong with Bennison, potentially hosting a tournament with many star players likely to be putting their feet up for the weekend, isn’t a good look for the credibility of the event and is likely going to effect attendance, in a similar way the England mid-season international isn’t that appetising, partly because a number of the regular England internationals are located in Australia so are automatically unavailable for selection. One suggestion was clubs to put up their own money, say £8,500 approximately, which makes sense but these are the very same clubs that wouldn’t/couldn’t pay for two trips to France to complete their fixtures in 2022, so the likelihood of them stumping up money for a 9’s tournament is very unlikely. 

I’m not sure who it appeals to within the existing fanbase, either. There isn’t really a precedence for 9’s rugby league barring a midweek tournament in Leeds about fifteen years ago. I’m not sure who plays 9’s in the UK, if at all and I’m not sure that it’s even been proposed that it’s going to be an area of focus to get more people playing it and to create more competitions under that format.

I’m not sure if I would attend. I am a big fan of Magic, I like the concept but I do think it could be done a lot better than it is presently. I like that it’s league points up for grabs and I like that I get to see everyone live and often games between similarly suited sides. Would a 9’s tournament draw my attention? I’m not so sure. 

I'm very similar. @Tommygilf has made me reconsider slightly and give it more of a benefit of the doubt as there is actually a problem that it can solve and maybe I'm wrong it would make for a good weekend... but I am firmly on the "needs convincing" side of it in terms of the game itself. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

I'm very similar. @Tommygilf has made me reconsider slightly and give it more of a benefit of the doubt as there is actually a problem that it can solve and maybe I'm wrong it would make for a good weekend... but I am firmly on the "needs convincing" side of it in terms of the game itself. 

Questions I would ask are:

i. Are there people who don't go to Magic who would go to a weekend of 9s.

ii. Are there people who do go to Magic who would not go to a weekend of 9s.

If you consider both questions it is a simple conclusion for me and in fact I reckon the attendances would be embarrassing.

RL also has no money to spend on a decade of establishing such an event and taking losses - even if there is something to work with in in the format - which I doubt.

Throw in, we can't even get clubs to release players for mid season internationals or all star games.

Just because Yawnion gets expats to go on the sauce for a weekend in Hong Kong for an event does not mean there is a ready market for us, when the format has never been played. I would also question whether sevens is basically just a corporate funded event - a market and income stream we do not have.

[idrewthehaggis]

Erm. Let's be honest if you want "profit" the only place is Australia surely.  

And it is dubious whether the antipodeans care nor need us though.

I winced listening to that podcast and reading the various missives from IMG bods, rich with dalekesque management speak.

I agree with the concepts of "peaks" but by expelling Magic pretty much will (happily for some) condemn it..

Lodged in the Siberian Gulag of August Bank Holiday was previously rejected for the Cup Final as families were reluctant to go, many were elsewhere on their jollies and it was felt it couldn't muster enough speccies.

And then securing a Big Quality stadium might be problematic.

You can imagine it-"Ian so after that 18k crowd at Middlesbrough, are you calling for Magic to scrapped?"

And it will go and we can return to our silos and look forward to a Four hour Nines competition at Barnsley or Oldham on a sub zero grey afternoon in February.

Re promote not replace.

Edited June 7, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[OnStrike]

Some good points I'd take on board about where 9s might be a useful or entertaining (for some, not for me) concept, pre season tournament, developing nations etc.

However I'm sticking to my guns on saying that replacing Magic Weekend with a glorified sports day would be an embarrassing disaster.

People used to criticise Eddie Waring as his style made light or fun of a serious sport. A serious sport with a history and heritage and a culture built around it. That was before my time, but I'd be of the opinion that a day as outlined in the podcast would be as Mickey Mouse as they come, turn off actual rugby league fans and not attract a significant number of new fans (no matter how you 'market' it).

Edited June 7, 2023 by OnStrike

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Erm. Let's be honest if you want "profit" the only place is Australia surely.  

And it is dubious whether the antipodeans care nor need us though.

I winced listening to that podcast and reading the various missives from IMG bods, rich with dalekesque management speak.

I agree with the concepts of "peaks" but by expelling Magic pretty much will (happily for some) condemn it..

Lodged in the Siberian Gulag of August Bank Holiday was previously rejected for the Cup Final as families were reluctant to go, many were elsewhere on their jollies and it was felt it couldn't muster enough speccies.

And then securing a Big Quality stadium might be problematic.

You can imagine it-"Ian so after that 18k crowd at Middlesbrough, are you calling for Magic to scrapped?"

And it will go and we can return to our silos and look forward to a Four hour Nines competition at Barnsley or Oldham on a sub zero grey afternoon in February.

Re promote not replace.

I have no idea where 9's came from and why it is a thing suddenly.

Nobody has ever called for it or wanted it - but it seems to have grown some mythological relevance in the last 12 months that some in positions of power are convinced of.

It's like Premier League Darts and T20 work, so 10 mins each way of p'ss poor RL is bound to be a money spinner just because.

It's completely bizarre. I can only liken it to the renaissance in flat earthers or King Arthur.

[Jughead]

My issue with moving the cup final and Magic is the logistics behind it. The month of May belongs to football at Wembley, even June has issues with boxing, concerts and even international football. Then you have Magic, moving it to August bank holiday would be the most rugby league thing ever. People moaned incessantly that the cup final being on a bank holiday weekend was a factor in attendance, with usual train strikes to boot. If Magic ended up then, it would, likely, face the same issues and same people citing the same excuses. The 2021 season had Magic in early September and that wasn’t too bad, though after weekends like last weekend in the sun at Newcastle, weather may not be as nice. Though, with The RFL talking of peaks, Magic a matter of weekends before the play-offs and Grand Final doesn’t seem like a good idea. 

[Griff]

6 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Hear hear!

Jeez - is it going to  last a weekend or a week?

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, Jughead said:

 I’m not sure what the motive behind Magic Weekend is,

Magic exists because the city of Cardiff paid the RFL to put on rugby league at the Millennium Stadium because the Challenge Cup was such a boost to the local economy.

I stand to be corrected but I believe it's been years since anyone paid for it and it is now a rental.

[bar red]

We should invite the big RU clubs to compete, now that would make it interesting and profitable.

[The 4 of Us]

Reposting from “August’ thread.

IMG have said they want to do things differently, new fans, new money etc. Just new.

The trend appears to be with ‘events’ , such as the UFC circus, Premier League Darts and the like.

I don’t think a stand alone 9’s comp would work. RL fans would see it as second to the real thing, but what about a SL Grand Prix. Perhaps even an indoor series of events. Leeds Arena, MEN Arena, O2 etc.

Something really different. Each event different match ups ( 4 groups of 3) with a ‘final’ all adding up over the series for a trophy alongside SL and CC. 
 

Think that would be 5 hours of sport in one event to sell. 20 mins games x 3 games x 4 groups plus semis and final.

Just a thought. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bar red said:

We should invite the big RU clubs to compete, now that would make it interesting and profitable.

Are there any left? Or do you mean the French RU clubs to get some expansion in?